T: Something that never fails to make me happy

[Olham 164]

I came to OFF Phase 2 in October 2008, and since then, I was flying most aggressively in the years

2009 and 2010. It changed slowly but surely during 2011, and I thought to myself that it isn't too hard

to collect lots of victories, while I couldn't get hurt, and when I didn't bother, if my pilot died.

I simply created a new one. But during 2011 I began to care for my wingmen more and more, and

I realised, that it felt better to bring some of them back alive after a fight, instead of returning with lots

of kills - but alone.

I began to use my wingman commands even better; I avoided any risky fights (so I avoided lots of them);

and I concentrated mostly on helping them in their fights. I still got enough victories collected that way,

but not by far as many as before. Still though - it was much more contenting.

 

Now we all know, that the enemy AI won't let you step out of fights easily, and so it was still hard to bring

more than one or two wingmen back.

 

But today I managed to do so - all six of them appeared, when I signalled to assemble!

What an overwhelming feeling, to see your six comrades coming from all angles, climbing towards you!

I was really touched and had goose skin!

It had not been an eventless patrol - we had first attacked 3 R.E.8 bombers, and then we had clashed

with several Nieuports of the aggressive Escadrille 82: the fight was going up and down and round

about, until we were at treetop level. But keeping my wingman behind me (with the "Help" command),

I could attack each and any Nieuport, which started to pester one of my men. My wingman kept my

six clear. When it was over, I had seen 3 Nieuports going down - the rest had either run home, or they

were also shot down.

The flying back in fine May weather with all my 6 wingmen was accompanied by good feelings!

I wonder if anyone else flies like that recently?

 

 

[Wayfarer 5]

Olham, flying two seaters - BE2s and RE8s - my mission objectives have been different to yours and I have always justified avoiding combat, if possible, in order to complete the mission. I have, also, always tried to protect my flight members as best I can.

Flying BE2s, I virtually never fired my guns except to try and drive off attackers from other pilots, without any serious effort to bring a machine down. I still haven't ever shot down an enemy aircraft - even on the one occasion I actually ran out of ammunition! I still remember the virtual guilt feeling the first time I returned from a mission without any of my flight members.

With the advent of more advanced enemy fighters I spend more time in my RE8s trying to defend my own tail, but I still try to look out for my flight when I can. it's certainly a good feeling when you have been flying over a reconnaissance objective for 20 minutes in really heavy AA if you find all your guys straggling back into formation on the homeward journey.

[Olham 164]

I still remember the virtual guilt feeling the first time I returned from a mission without any of my flight members.

Isn't it really bad?

I see, you know exactly what I was talking about.

Good luck for the future!

Edited April 20, 2012 by Olham

[carrick58 23]

you are not suppose to use wing men as Cannon Fodder ?

[Olham 164]

Well, maybe one possible tactic - but it feels bad, doesn't it?

Or are you one of those pilots who rushes into the mess at lunch first,

to make sure you get all the puddings of the pilots you left behind?

[von Baur 54]

I tried OFF way back in the early days when references to it first started showing up on Wings of Valor (the gathering place for Red Baron fans) and the TargetWare forums (I was quite serious about their very promising Richtofen's Skies mod) . While I was impressed with the graphics, I felt that the flight model was inferior (which I'd come to expect of most flight sims associated with Microsoft), and in any event, my computer at the time wasn't up to the task, so I dropped it for a long time. But my campaign flying in RB was much like you describe, Olham...shoot down as many as I could and let my squadmates fend for themselves. Oh, if I noticed one getting hit by an enemy and I wasn't already engaged I'd try to protect him, but mine was the only 6:00 I truly cared about. And I got quite adept at hitting "Esc" and "Abort mission" before my pilot died, allowing me to chalk that one up as time spent and a lesson learned, but no real harm done. I don't remember how many hundreds of kills I amassed that way, and I didn't even try to keep track of how many squadmates never returned.

 

Phase 3 was nearing completion by the time I returned...with the hardware upgrades to make it playable...and when I decided to get off the QC's and fly a campaign I made up my mind to "keep it real" and do everything I could to bring as many back alive as possible. I agree that the feeling of seeing your whole flight behind you as you RTB is far more satisfying than coming home alone with a half-dozen kills. And sometimes, when I'm a man short after a scrape and he finally shows up when we're almost home, I actually feel a sense of relief.

 

Anyone who hasn't tried focussing on the survival of your flight (within the parameters of accomplishing the assigned task, of course) should do so.

[Olham 164]

And sometimes, when I'm a man short after a scrape and he finally shows up when we're almost home, I actually feel a sense of relief.

Don't you? Yes, when they come crawling home low over a forest, and I discover them in their shot up crates, I circle and press

the "Return" command again and again. Often enough they finally make it and climb up to the rest of us - and we fly home together.

No "Iron Cross" or promotion can beat that!

[Hauksbee 103]

The flying back in fine May weather with all my 6 wingmen was accompanied by good feelings!

You're a fine Jasta Commander, Olham. Boelke would be proud.

[Olham 164]

Thanks, Hauksbee, but I'm not so sure there.

I wouldn't like to be a leader with lots of responsibility for a whole Jasta - the tension would kill me.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Olham, I believe you would have made an excellent Kommandant of a Jasta. And I agree completely about how much greater the sense of immersion is when you fly to bring your men home. Give them each their own brief backstory and the feelings get even more intense.

 

.

[Creaghorn 10]

.

 

Olham, I believe you would have made an excellent Kommandant of a Jasta. And I agree completely about how much greater the sense of immersion is when you fly to bring your men home. Give them each their own brief backstory and the feelings get even more intense.

 

.

 

created especially for immersion and depth like you describe, there ist this great tool. i can only recommend it to everybody who is flying serious campaigns.

 

http://combatace.com/files/file/12391-office-the-off-incomplete-campaign-editor/

 

cheers

[Olham 164]

Thanks, Lou - what a fine compliment!

I have hopes, that the AI in the forthcoming OFF II will withdraw, and allow withdrawals.

That could lead to more realistic numbers of losses.

After all, a single Jasta didn't have that many losses really.

(Of course very different on the Entente side - crossing the lines most every day took a much bigger toll on them.)

 

I would be greatly willing to fly accordingly on my end, and not pester and follow a withdrawing enemy unit after a scrap.

In the preview film this was hinted - oh, the gleeful anticipation - hope I won't burst, before the release day!

 

Good reminder, Creaghorn - Lothar's program is great to add real "live meat" to the campaigns.

If you don't find it easy to imagine your comrades, their ways and characteristics - there you'll get it all.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Olham

[Shiloh 12]

I don't think I'm quite there yet in my evolution as a pilot. I speak honestly as I think one matures 'fully' into that over time. I have only been flying for a year though so I think I get closer to that all the time and have no doubt I will feel precisely as you describe here Olham. It's probably why pilots - among other reasons - were not given command until they showed their leaders "more" in the way of caring for their men.

 

But please don't get me wrong. I care deeply for the safe return of my squad - particularly the ones I am leading - but I also understand that losses are inevitable. However, nothing makes my blood boil like when I see one of my buddies in trouble and I'll do anything to help them even if it's against tremendous odds. There's nothing like knocking an enemy fighter off my wingmans six - it just feels right.

 

And I do agree that Olham would make an incredible flight leader.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Shiloh

[Olham 164]

Since October 2008 I have changed only very slowly in that direction, Shiloh.

I saw other flyers here, who were more mature about it all.

Flyers like RAF_Louvert, Creaghorn and Hasse Wind taught me, that it wasn't all about gaining lots of victories -

more victories than the real aces ever piled up in such a short time - not even the best of them.

 

Especially Creaghorn, who was always most serious about this, taught me, that I would honour the real WW1

flyers much better, if I would fly with the real fear of getting seriously wounded, with the fear of death.

We can do it all so easily, because we learn and learn. How many lives have I burnt to get to these abilities,

to become a good Albatros flyer and decent fighter? Countless.

 

But the real men had only their one life. A precious, youthful life.

The hotspurs and those with lesser phantasy risked it more - and often enough fell early.

Those, who were fighters with a cool mind lasted longer, but even those guys mostly fell.

Those who survived had probably better, bigger doses of luck; they had nine lives so to say.

Cause it still needed luck to survive it at all, it seems to me.

Or why did an ace like Rumey from Jasta 5 die after a collision? He had a parachute.

But it failed to open, and he fell to his death.

 

Reading about the attitudes of Lou, HW and Creaghorn, I understood all that quite well, what they were saying.

But unlike them - they had all read a lot about WW1 aviation and the flyers - I had no knowledge, when I started.

I had a boyish attitude in air combat sims - I wanted to be the last flyer high up, after shooting everyone else down.

It seems now, that I am leaving that more and more behind, and at hindsight it seems it was necessary to let

it all out, until I realised, that it was enough of that playing - that I now wanted to simulate the real situations

better and better.

I am greatful, that the above mentioned flyers did not talk insistently to me, to change my attitudes.

I did what I wanted to, and now I have had it - it feels like growing up in that respect.

 

This is not meant to say to anyone, he should fly or behave differently.

Let it all out, until it is out and done. Maybe then you will approach it from another angle.

 

No other game or sim has got me that far, without loosing any of it's flavour.

Thanks to the devs, and to the above named gentlemen for their patience.

 

.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Olham

[HumanDrone 4]

Olham,

 

I know the feeling. Maybe I’m just old and soft, and maybe I’m getting cynical about gov’ts and war. When I first bought Flight Simulator, it was the civilian version. But my son wanted to try combat, so he bought me CFS2. Shortly after that, my brother-in-law (who has an odd fascination with the Nazis) bought me CFS3.

 

I still remember the feeling as I struggled against Zeros for the first time in my F4U Corsair. No TrackIR or anything like that - and all of a sudden a Zero pulls in front of me, very close- a short burst caught his wing and fuselage in the cockpit area and he was burning, out of control. He didn’t get out before the plane exploded. And of course it’s not real, and thank God.

 

But it actually jarred me. Just like that, it’s over. Just like that, one wrong move or an aircraft failure or a lucky shot, and your machine has become a falling death trap, and it’s not like you can just pull over, get out, and duck into the woods. When does terror turn into the realization, even the resignation, that you are going to die momentarily? The poor bugger probably just wanted to survive and get home to live in peace just like I would have. Problem was, he HAD to fight to get that opportunity, just like our side. He probably even volunteered, just as many of our “greatest generation” felt compelled to do. And then it “got real”, as they say. And we saw heroism and nobility - and some of the worst inhumanity to man that the world has ever seen. Are we any better for it? Sometimes I wonder. I don’t think many of this generation appreciate what these great men went through.

 

So I appreciate your viewpoint, and with you I appreciate the fact that the developers and our fellow members here have assembled this vast array or resources that can allow us to develop at least a shadow of the feelings these men must have experienced, and not become completely desensitized to what killing someone actually means.

 

One of those resources was the books uploaded by RAF_Louvert. I was reading a little on Oswald Boelcke, how he was chivalrous to those enemies who survived being downed by him. I’m sure you are familiar with it - he downs a man, then takes him out for coffee and a tour of his air base! And how, when he was killed, the Allied prisoners sent flowers and condolences, and the English RFS dropped a wreath onto the airfield with a kind inscription. In the raw inhumanity of war, that must have been a blessed relief.

 

Best,

 

Tom

[Olham 164]

Nazis seem to be very fascinating for many, as we can recognise in so many films.

Their efficiency, their well organised terror, their Blitzkrieg successes...

And didn't they know how to tailor some dashing uniforms? Sleek as sharks.

But the eyes of sharks cause me goos skin...

 

Tom, to be honest, I haven't read about Boelcke yet, but will fill that gapp as soon as possible.

Boelcke must have been a fine character, from all I did read in notes and quotes.

I know that Jasta pilots often had a drink with Entente pilots, and showed them round their

aerodrome, and to their aircraft. Not all pilots felt good and friendly with that, but some really

felt quite happy, that their opponents were not dead, but only prisoners now.

 

Carl Holler from Jasta 6 must have gone too far in such a situation. It seems that he drank

several glasses of wine with a French pilot he had downed, and the wine may have made

the two men laugh together loud.

Holler was removed to another post, and he was even under threat to be court martialed

for fraternisation.

As if it was not understandable for many, that Holler was glad his victim had survived.

Some of the base wallahs and the brass want to eliminate such feelings - in every war.

[Shiloh 12]

Since October 2008 I have changed only very slowly in that direction, Shiloh.

I saw other flyers here, who were more mature about it all.

Flyers like RAF_Louvert, Creaghorn and Hasse Wind taught me, that it wasn't all about gaining lots of victories -

more victories than the real aces ever piled up in such a short time - not even the best of them.

 

Especially Creaghorn, who was always most serious about this, taught me, that I would honour the real WW1

flyers much better, if I would fly with the real fear of getting seriously wounded, with the fear of death.

We can do it all so easily, because we learn and learn. How many lives have I burnt to get to these abilities,

to become a good Albatros flyer and decent fighter? Countless.

 

But the real men had only their one life. A precious, youthful life.

The hotspurs and those with lesser phantasy risked it more - and often enough fell early.

Those, who were fighters with a cool mind lasted longer, but even those guys mostly fell.

Those who survived had probably better, bigger doses of luck; they had nine lives so to say.

Cause it still needed luck to survive it at all, it seems to me.

Or why did an ace like Rumey from Jasta 5 die after a collision? He had a parachute.

But it failed to open, and he fell to his death.

 

Reading about the attitudes of Lou, HW and Creaghorn, I understood all that quite well, what they were saying.

But unlike them - they had all read a lot about WW1 aviation and the flyers - I had no knowledge, when I started.

I had a boyish attitude in air combat sims - I wanted to be the last flyer high up, after shooting everyone else down.

It seems now, that I am leaving that more and more behind, and at hindsight it seems it was necessary to let

it all out, until I realised, that it was enough of that playing - that I now wanted to simulate the real situations

better and better.

I am greatful, that the above mentioned flyers did not talk insistently to me, to change my attitudes.

I did what I wanted to, and now I have had it - it feels like growing up in that respect.

 

This is not meant to say to anyone, he should fly or behave differently.

Let it all out, until it is out and done. Maybe then you will approach it from another angle.

 

No other game or sim has got me that far, without loosing any of it's flavour.

Thanks to the devs, and to the above named gentlemen for their patience.

 

.

 

I am just seeing this post now Olham - thanks for all the great thoughts. I do feel like I'm evolving with every flight due to experience. But it's a slow process with me as I like to be in the middle of the action. Yet with every post or book I read, every documentary I watch, it brings me a bit closer.

 

I only gave up visual aids just a month or so ago and even though it was hard at the time, I don't think I will ever fly that way again. I have felt pure fear when flying along with my head on a swivel before realizing that just above and behind we were being dived upon and shot to pieces. What a thrill when the fight escalates, and what loss is felt when one of my men doesn't survive. Some flights I feel every emotion - what other flight sim can do that?

 

I am also grateful to all the great influences here who set good examples - knowingly or not - and teach us young pups what it's all about. I can't believe it has been just a year since I first held the stick and took to the air and what a great flight it has been.

 

[Olham 164]

Yep, it is a slow evolution; can't be pushed. Let it all out, until one day you feel it has changed.

[Wayfarer 5]

... it's a slow process with me as I like to be in the middle of the action. Yet with every post or book I read, every documentary I watch, it brings me a bit closer.

 

 

OFF is the only sim I have ever managed to play in a somewhat realistic manner. Before, I always generally chased after everything in an attempt to see just one more thing get hit.

Strangely, I got the attitude before I got the sim. I was looking for something that I felt I could fly in that way. I read a lot of reviews of OFF and ROF and chose OFF because it seemed the most likely to reward that type of flying. I have certainly not been disappointed.

It took me a while to do without most of the visual aids. I just use the compass now because the RE8 doesn't have one the cockpit.

I also found it helps me to maintain that attitude by reading around the period. Not just the air war, but the whole war and the background to it. There's a kind of vicarious sense of participation in history that seems to fill up the less eventful parts of long reconnaissance flights.