Ngr 105 Posted October 12, 2012 Coud someone tell me are there any refuel missions for SF2? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Soulfreak 6,524 Posted October 12, 2012 No. works only in SF1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ST0RM 145 Posted October 12, 2012 At $15,000 per hour to operate a KC-135, this is well outside of Thirdwire's budget and quickly dropped from any future add-ons for the sim. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+comrpnt 16 Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) You can only simulate it - flying in formation with a tanker add-on aircraft. Some scripted single missions are available for SF2 - see here: http://combatace.com...the-lightnings/ Some screenshots available here: http://combatace.com/topic/75048-the-last-of-the-lightnings-some-screenshots-for-you/ Edited October 12, 2012 by comrpnt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Florian 394 Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) No. works only in SF1. It works in SF1 in different way someone might think of! Kreelin, a modder here around made once a "refueler mod". It used a faked engine with a high negative fuel flow. It was activated via thrust vector control and then "filled" the tanks of your aircraft. Together with flying in formation with the tanker it was pretty realistic. Either with SF2 or one of it´s early patches the game didn´t recognized a negative fuel flow anymore. We asked TK several times about the reason but never got an answer. Edited October 12, 2012 by Florian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gunrunner 314 Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Maybe because it was an obvious bug and a nightmare to have that around... As a coder, not checking properly the constraint on your input variables is a recipe for disaster. If all your code expects unsigned or positive values within a certain range but gets fed negative values or values outside of the range for which your code is valid, you're asking for troubles. It may be inconvenient for tinkerers and modders, but on that particular issue TK did what he should have done a long time ago. Edited October 12, 2012 by Gunrunner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usafphantom2 19 Posted October 12, 2012 I inquired about the cost of privately funding the coding effort to get this to happen and TK told me it would cost up to and maybe more $70,000 to do this if I was serious.I dont have it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ravenclaw_007 7,633 Posted October 12, 2012 Coud someone tell me are there any refuel missions for SF2? Paulopanz made some for the Buccaneer , so yes there are but as Soulfreak mention the refueling is not working all you can do is practice your skills and i think there are some other missions with a KC-135 around I inquired about the cost of privately funding the coding effort to get this to happen and TK told me it would cost up to and maybe more $70,000 to do this if I was serious.I dont have it. i dont believe a single worth about how much something will cost if it coms from TK , this is his standart excuse for everything and im sure if some of the modders would have acces to the game engine we not only would have air refuelung but a lot of other things to that TK considers to expensive to be made Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrench 9,851 Posted October 12, 2012 At $15,000 per hour to operate a KC-135, this is well outside of Thirdwire's budget and quickly dropped from any future add-ons for the sim. to Jeff you should listen ....for a living, this he does!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastCargo 412 Posted October 12, 2012 i dont believe a single worth about how much something will cost if it coms from TK , this is his standart excuse for everything and im sure if some of the modders would have acces to the game engine we not only would have air refuelung but a lot of other things to that TK considers to expensive to be made I am not sure why people believe that just because you can mod something that coding core isn't that much harder. Any here ever coded any open source projects? Heck, if is so easy, Flightgear is open source. Code that for a while and come back here when you've got the engine doing everything you want in your combat flight simulation. Volunteers? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gunrunner 314 Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) FC, while it's true that most underestimate the cost of coding, TK has proved he sometimes uses it as a rational excuse not to implement things he has no immediate interest in doing and for which he thinks the monetary rewards are low. I understand that it's an argument easier to sell than "I'm just not feeling like doing that right now because I have no interesting way to do it and it fits nowhere in my long-term plans yet" but it is the real core of the matter. It's not meant as an insult to TK, I perfectly understand that it is part of the luxury of being an independent developer and the guarantee that he'll continue working on the series without seeing it as just a chore or a way to make money. I also understand that some modders might find it frustrating, but I'm sure they can easily see themselves in his shoes and understand why he takes that stance. Also, for the nay-sayers, think of ALL the things that needs to be coded for air refueling to work properly (and not as a make believe trick using scripted missions and an engine bug), it's not only about getting fuel transferred, but planning refuel zones, making sure they are properly generated (far from danger, yet close enough to be useful), having AI routines dedicated to refuel procedures (because while the tankers would run a pattern, they'd have to adopt another behaviour once you show up to refuel), then there's routine for collision and detecting how things go and how to deal with problems or successful operations, then there's AI routines to be added so your wingmen can refuel too... And for each step you must validate your code, check, test, again and again... It may be true that hands-on testing might have been somewhat lacking in recent times, but don't think that's it's the only testing done and the only one that matters. It's an incredible amount of work for something that would be used by only a limited portion of players and not entirely justified by the scale of existing maps and mission planning algorithm. Edited October 12, 2012 by Gunrunner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastCargo 412 Posted October 12, 2012 Gunrunner, I'd agree with you that TK probably overstates his costs somewhat. But it irks me that folks seems to dismiss his claims out of hand, without even thinking about it a little bit. Check out what Matt Wagner said about FC3: If we solely based price on what end users deemed the cost should be rather than based on actual development costs, we would have been out of business long ago. As it is, we are often lucky to break even on these products. Hmmm...sound familiar? All one has to do is look at the wreckage of old combat flight simulator developers (especially those with modern aircraft) to realize...this s**t is tough to do and consistently stay in business. And that's what this is...a business. I will say it one more time...anything built in the TW sims is supposed to be designed to offset its costs to make a profit and put food on the table. If it is not expected to ever do that...guess what...it won't get done. The only people that have access to that data (costs verses revenue) for TW is probably TK. Does anyone here...anyone...do development of combat flight simulations as their sole source of revenue? Not as side business to augment your retirement or other income... but no kidding, your primary job. I'd love to hear your thoughts. FC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usafphantom2 19 Posted October 12, 2012 That's why I took the approach of private funding,But it was at least twice as much as i expected not really knowing how much coding per hour,day,week whatever cost.But I'm glad I found out! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stratos 3,192 Posted October 29, 2013 Excuse me for reviving this post. But is possible to have a "solid" basket that you can actually catch? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
