Project Topic Dhimar/Paran Enhancement

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

I had several considerations to make when i did my personal enhancement for the Dhimar/Paran scenario:

 

1.I wanted it to be set in the eighties, much like the Iran-Iraq war, the best timeframe began around 1984.

 

2.I was limited by my computer being kinda burned out to stock stuff, as mods would reduce FPS harder than graphics (i can play better in a vanilla install with the best graphics than a modded install with lower graphic performance, dont know why). I already have a few DLCs to deal with it.

 

3.For balance, i intended to keep as many aircraft as possible equipped with decoys and, if possible, ECM for enhanced survivavility

 

 

That´s why particular storyline was: Dhimar was some kind of a wealthy secular country, with a largely pro-western population wich could and wanted to afford to spend in the best stuff they could get , while Paran was a poorer country handicapped with social issues wich had to stay on budget, and make do with what they could have to control its own insurgencies, whose goverment just got overthrown with a pro-soviet coup, then used as a proxy to mess with the Dhimaris. Their OrBats would be:

 

Dhimar: like the IDFAF in Lebanon 82 but changing Bazs for Tomcats. They would have F-14s in Desert camo (either adversary or Iranian livery) along with F-16 Netz, F-4 Kurnass, Kfir C2s, latest model A-4Hs... all in Desert camo

 

Paran: Mirage5BA (80) and A-7Ps, wich share a nearly identical wraparound camo, along with Omani Hunter FGA.73 (82) would be the remnants of the poor, prowestern Parani air force. MiG-23 MLDs and Tu-22RDs would be a reinforcement against the well equipped Dhimari forces

 

 

While constrained by the issues i posted about earlier, it amounts for a great campaign. Parani Hunters get to be the obsolescent-PITA-dogfighter Frescos used to be in earlier campaigns, while a campaign in a Parani Mirage5BA flying past Tomcat and Netz fighters to hit targets is epic. Also, it is nice to have Tomcats in a ground based tactical fighter role, while for everything else in the Dhimari AF, it looks like a more challenging Lebanon war campaign in a fictional setting. Very 80s like

I do indeed believe that an early 1980's scenario is an optimal one, in terms of political realism. 

 

But: Kfir is Israeli. NO WAY any arab country would buy something from them. Better switch to some other delta. Perhaps Mirage V too, or III-E bought in the sixties. 

 

If one wants to be inspired by Libyan situation, F-5 could be used as a former Paran plane, before the radical coup. Or perhaps Lightnings. One could perhaps have a look into North Yemeni or Saudi/Omani battle orders of the 1960-1970.

 

I am nonetheless affraid that this setup is heavily unbalanced in favor of Dhimar: F-14s will tear appart Paran. 

 

I would also say: Fishbeds! I love fishbeds...

[+Piecemeal 450]

If I could put my six pence worth in;

 

My own install has an exclusively pro-Western air force, with Mirage F1 and Mirage 5 squadrons, serving alongside F-4Es, F-5Es (Centurion's upcoming mod) and one or maybe two F-15 squadrons.

Paran is exclusively kitted out with Soviet hardware (MiGs and SUs). This may seem a little bit off balance in favour of Dhimar, BUT ; if you go into the DESERT_NATIONS.ini file and change both Paran and Dhimar's 'PilotTrainingStandards' prompt from POOR to NORMAL, you'll see that in a lot of cases the balance is often evened off in air combat. Take for example a combat air patrol in the mid 80s - I've often had a lot of my flight (and sometimes myself) wiped off the sky by Parani MiG-23MLs armed with AA-7s. My Parani MiG-21MF/bis and MiG-23MS models are by default armed with two AA-2R radar homing missiles, so that can also give a nasty surprise sometimes when going into a head-on engagement.

 

Has anybody had a thought about dressing up Dhimari aircraft in a chocolate brown/sand coloured camo scheme, like this?

http://combatace.com/topic/72591-strike-fighters-2-screenshots/page-172?do=findComment&comment=655798

 

I've got all my Dhimari Mirages in this livery and if I'd any skinning talent I'd have the F-4s dressed the same.

 

Just a few thoughts.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Piecemeal

[Centurion-1 1,228]

Yeah sure, that is a good fix to do!

Also, what about Pro-Western arab countries buying Mirages and then giving them to Paran, like the Saudis gave away their Mirages to Egypt (or was it Libya?) as political support? That way you can go around the political orientation problem. Also, Dhimar could be allied with S. Africa to get Kfir/Cheetah tech that way. The main problem as I see it is that in the 60s and early 70s the Soviet AAMs are mostly just AA-2s that can't hit shit, and no real credible BVRs until the AA-7s. I am in favor of keeping the number of Mirages low in comparison to MiG/Su numbers but I do like the mix they provide.

 

And if we want to give Apex predators like the Eagle or Tomcat to Dhimar there needs to be a very credible opposition.

 

As for Dhimar I think Mario (ValAstur) has done a stunning job with the camo shown here:

http://combatace.com/topic/81822-the-chief-dwelling-in-the-sand/

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

My propositions:

 

1980's mod:

 

- Like most states in the Gulf area, Dhimar and Paran were somewhat artificial constructions.

Dhimari tribes were nominaly vassal under the Parani Sultan  in Kurzah. 

The whole area was under British protectorate. 

 

- Upon discovery of massive oil reserves, Britain did create a Dhimari Kingdom (koweit, anyone?) under the most powerful local family.

 

- Early 1960's: independence of both states.

Dhimar is a customer of British & French planes.

Paran buys British and/or U.S planes (Libyan Kingdom F-5 in mind, or Kuwaities lightnings)

 

- Late 1960's/early 1970's: Paran old monarchy is overthrown by a military coup. The somewhat forgotten country starts to use its small, compared to Dhimar's, oil and gas income for military and political influence. Paran starts to involve itself with radical groups elsewhere and becomes a friend of communist South Yemen.

In the mid 1970, France sells directly and through proxies some mirages.

Dhimar starts to buy from the U.S.

 

- Late 1970: Paran increasing radicalism leads to an end to the French connection. Paran finds now friends in Moscow.

 

- Early 1980: Paran's head-colonel launchs the second step of "Paran's revolution", mixing socialism, nationalism and religion. Paran increases it's support for radical terrorism in the world especially in Dhimar. Territorial claims are extended... then the whole "imperialist-created kingdom" is claimed by Paran.

(France is back? Mirage 2000?)

 

- 1984 : Border clashes esclate to full war.

 

Dhimar:

- Jaguar? Better IMHO than A-4/Kfir.

- F-14 (I like the idea) (heavy interceptor)

- older planes: Mirage III-e? 5? Lightnings?

- Mirage 2000 (Light interceptor) ?/F-16?

- F-4 are also a possibility. 

 

 

Paran:

Mirage F1

Mirage 5
Mig 21

MiG 23

MiG 25

Su-x
Tu-x?
an handfull of old F-5 or Lightning/Hunter?

 

Possible foreign involvment: 

Dhimar: U.S./ French - British, Saudian, 

Paran: South Yemen, Syria, Algeria, Libya

Edited February 23, 2014 by Emp_Palpatine

[macelena 1,070]

Actually, Dhimar was meant to be not predominantly Arab in the scenario i set, much like Rhodesia, South Africa or the own Israel were mainly populated by ethnics of European background. I put them because i prefered the Kfir as a low cost aircraft compared to Tomcats and F-16s wich still had a good ECM-Decoy suit, along with the edge provided by CCIP for an attacker. While Mirage F1s and F-5s would be cool, i intended to keep it stock

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Actually, Dhimar was meant to be not predominantly Arab in the scenario i set, much like Rhodesia, South Africa or the own Israel were mainly populated by ethnics of European background. I put them because i prefered the Kfir as a low cost aircraft compared to Tomcats and F-16s wich still had a good ECM-Decoy suit, along with the edge provided by CCIP for an attacker. While Mirage F1s and F-5s would be cool, i intended to keep it stock

Intersting idea, that makes indeed Israeli aircraft much more credible.

My own propositions were not for your mod per-se. 

By the way, you should change the pilots and places names for Dhimar to make them more european.

[Centurion-1 1,228]

I'm having a fun time with the stock 1975 campaign modded for Desert 4.0, with ValAsturs new Dhimari planes plus some personal mods of mine.

 

Rough ORBAT for Dhimar

 

Squadrons

2x Lightning F.53 (new built A la Kuwait and Saudi)

3x F-5E (new built obviously)

1x A37B (dito)

1x Hunter (old airframes given new life)

4x F-4E/J (ex USN airframes and new built F-4Es)

2x F-100D (ex USAF received in the 60s)

2x F-104 (new builds received in the 60s)

2x F-105 (new builds received in the 60s)

 

Creates a pretty good mix, and not unreasonable I think for a oil-rich country in the middle of air force modernization.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Centurion-1

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Looking nice, good use of the new amazing skins.

What about the bad guys? 

[Centurion-1 1,228]

Yeah working on that, contrary to public opinion I have goon with a mix of

MiG-21PFM

MiG-21MF

MiG-23MS

MiG-23MF

Mirage III

Mirage 5

Su-7BMK

 

Tu-22

Tu-16

 

Needs dedicated skins for most of these, working on that part

[ValAstur 1,294]

Yeah working on that, contrary to public opinion I have goon with a mix of

MiG-21PFM

MiG-21MF

MiG-23MS

MiG-23MF

Mirage III

Mirage 5

Su-7BMK

 

Tu-22

Tu-16

 

Needs dedicated skins for most of these, working on that part

 

I can lend you a hand if you wish. If it does not hurry, I can start as soon as I finish my desert agressors.

 

Btw: The Blinder looks great in that camo. Why not using that one for the fighters? The Lightning looks outstanding in that colors!

 

Or the camo of the uppermost F-7 would also look great for the parani fighters.

Edited March 8, 2014 by ValAstur

[Centurion-1 1,228]

Thanks, yeah I like the Lightning in desert camo. My plan was to use the desert snake camo as seen on the Tu-22 for the Paranis. The problem is that there are not very many high-res templates available for the Red birds. Currently I got Il-28 and Tu-22 I got from Enoc, and hoping to borrow Carlos MiG-21 temps. The Mirages are covered too of course. But yeah help is welcome!

[Stratos 3,192]

I will like the Snake cammo for PAran, but of course will take wathever you choose!

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Would be great if Paran was flyable too. :)

[Centurion-1 1,228]

Once I get the MiG-21 files from Carlo I can maybe make a playable pack for Paran and a campaign file to go with it...

 

We got the trappings of a whole mod here I think. Also, since Mario is making a Skyhawk how do we feel about a small carrier for Dhimar, something like the Melbourne or Argentinas Veinticinco de Mayo?

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

IMHO, a carrier is a little bit far stretched...

[Centurion-1 1,228]

List of nation that have/have had similar carriers (OTTH):

 

Australia

Canada

Argentina

Brazil

India

Spain

Italy

 

I found the HMCS Bonaventure in the downloads, which was scrapped in 1970 even though recently refitted. What if it instead was sold to Dhimar?

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

All these nations do have a strong naval tradition. 
Few arab states, if any , do so. They all are land-powers. 

 

I've always seen Dhimar somewhere in the Arabian Peninsula... A place where carriers aren't needed. Dhimar does not need carriers: their ennemy is right across the border, not overseas. And they don't have to defend overseas territories or huge chunks of ocean. Dhimar would more be more realistic with a green water navy. 

 

 

IMHO, it's overkill and quite unrealistic. Does S.Arabia own a carrier? Do they plan to do so? Nope. Neither does Oman, for instance. 

Edited March 8, 2014 by Emp_Palpatine

[Centurion-1 1,228]

Well sure. But what if? All it would take is one Navy nut prince or Sheik and a boatload of money. Aanyways, if I ever get to release my campaign I will make it optional.

 

EDIT: And also, having a carrier would enable Dhimar to strike targets in the rear of Parans defences where they are more vunerable to attack, without having to cross the SAM-line behind the border.

[Stratos 3,192]

Will the Independence class carrier be to small to operate the Skyhawks?

[Centurion-1 1,228]

And now, a bit of a old dog in an unfriendly word. Taking it for a spin in a 1975-era environment I knew it was not going to be a cakewalk. I made my ingress with care and was concentrating on the bombsight when I had a slight.. ermm.. setback. Apparently 40mm shells are bad for the health of this puppy.

 

 

[Stratos 3,192]

Love the cammo!!

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Nice!

 

By the way, I've never played a two seater with rear guns in TK's games: does the AI handle the guns?

[Centurion-1 1,228]

And now for something completely fresh, in fact I just finished it 10mins ago.

 

I guess I must like skinning when I opted to stay in on a very pretty spring day and redraw 2048 templates for the Su-7. Gonna up the templates after fixing some stuff, a bunch of skins that can be (re)done pretty easily now.

[ValAstur 1,294]

That Su-7 and the Beagle look pretty good in that camo!

Edited March 12, 2014 by ValAstur

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

They are georgous!

I must admit I dislike the Su-7... But not with this skin, that's a sweet one!