B-52 Tail Gun Question.

[KJakker]

A question occurred to me that I hope someone here might know the answer to. The B-36, B-47, B-58, and B-66 all had 20mm cannon in their defensive armament yet the B-52 still used 50 caliber machine guns until the G model was produced. Why was that the case?      

Edited September 9, 2015 by KJakker

[+Geezer]

A question occurred to me that I hope someone here might know the answer to. The B-36, B-47, B-58, and B-66 all had 20mm cannon in their defensive armament yet the B-52 still used 50 caliber machine guns until the G model was produced. Why was that the case?      

 

My hitch in the USAF was spent maintaining B-52 tail gun systems.  All B-52s through (and including) the G-model were equipped with MD-9/ASG-15 fire control systems, armed with four .50 machine guns.  Only the H-model was equipped with the ASG-21 fire control system, armed with a 20mm Vulcan rotary cannon.

 

Early radar-directed gunnery systems had difficulty getting enough 20mm cannon hits to destroy a target quickly.  A .50 machine gun had a higher rate of fire than a 20mm cannon, so closely concentrating four of them in a turret created a kind of flying shotgun that would get more hits than a slower firing 20mm cannon. 

 

Eventually two things happened to change this: 

- Airborne radar gradually improved to where it could precisely, and continuously, track and hit a target

- The Vulcan Gatling gun had a higher rate of fire than conventional 20mm canons or .50 machine guns

 

The two combined to guarantee enough hits in a short engagement time.  At about the same time, improvements in air-to-air missiles extended their effective range beyond a 20mm cannon's range, so the cannons were eventually removed to save weight.

 

The flying shotgun:

 

Edited September 9, 2015 by Geezer

[KJakker]

I guess I miscounted when I thought it was the G and not the H that first got the Vulcan. Thanks for the answer Geezer.

[ironroad]

My hitch in the USAF was spent maintaining B-52 tail gun systems.  All B-52s through (and including) the G-model were equipped with MD-9/ASG-15 fire control systems, armed with four .50 machine guns.  Only the H-model was equipped with the ASG-21 fire control system, armed with a 20mm Vulcan rotary cannon.

 

Early radar-directed gunnery systems had difficulty getting enough 20mm cannon hits to destroy a target quickly.  A .50 machine gun had a higher rate of fire than a 20mm cannon, so closely concentrating four of them in a turret created a kind of flying shotgun that would get more hits than a slower firing 20mm cannon. 

 

Eventually two things happened to change this: 

- Airborne radar gradually improved to where it could precisely, and continuously, track and hit a target

- The Vulcan Gatling gun had a higher rate of fire than conventional 20mm canons or .50 machine guns

 

The two combined to guarantee enough hits in a short engagement time.  At about the same time, improvements in air-to-air missiles extended their effective range beyond a 20mm cannon's range, so the cannons were eventually removed to save weight.

 

The flying shotgun:

hot damn!

[Skyviper]

hot damn!

 

Exactly what I was thinking!

 

 

Out of curiosity, I'm wondering: When was the last time a B-52 had to use it's tail gun in combat?

[KJakker]

Exactly what I was thinking!

 

 

Out of curiosity, I'm wondering: When was the last time a B-52 had to use it's tail gun in combat?

 

Vietnam, during Linebacker II, 24 December 1972, a Mig-21's downed. But there were a number of simulated tail gun kills in training up until the tail guns were removed. I remember reading that the crews at the time weren't happy about lousing the guns.   

[+Geezer]

 I remember reading that the crews at the time weren't happy about losing the guns.   

 

Yes.  Mostly it was psychological - you want a .45 in your hand if you are going down a dark alley.  Also, some Communist pilots weren't trained well enough to use their range advantage, and would close on the B-52, allowing the tail guns to get some hits.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Geezer

[macelena]

It is also a matter of redundant-layered defences, i guess. I remember a vid of a US fighter(don´t know if it was an F-15) wich had a hard time intercepting a B-52 because it would jam his radar, shoot flares "like a motherfucker" and keep him off guns range with his own

[KJakker]

You mean this clip?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBV-sNWq3RY?t=129

 

Also read the article below.

 

B-52 Tail-gunner Recalls MiG Downing (Vietnam)

 

Edit:Why is the Youtube Video not showing?

Edited September 14, 2015 by KJakker