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I love that type P . I love them both actually. I'll try to do some digging on the net about armament but honestly with a small baby at home time is hard to find. 

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28 minutes ago, whiteknight06604 said:

I love that type P . I love them both actually. I'll try to do some digging on the net about armament but honestly with a small baby at home time is hard to find. 

The Type P is the unsung hero of French aviation in 1916-17.  It was designed as a more powerful improvement of the Type L.  565 were built, parceled out in twos and threes to most all French observation squadrons.  It was also used by the British and Russians.

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Edited by Geezer
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19 hours ago, Geezer said:

Russia also used , but I can find only one reference and it shows a Madsen MG.  Is this correct?

According to the documents of the 19th KAO, on this machine (MS839) also used Lewis, but not Madsen, as depicted on the profile. By that time, Madsen machine guns were practically not used in Russian aviation.

Only a few copies of the M-S Type P (supposedly no more than 10) have arrived in Russia.

 

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Here they were named a "Morane-4" or abbreviated - "Морчет", Morchet  (this corresponds to the reduction of the "Mor-four"). The “Morchets” used on the Russian-German front, in particular the 19th Corps Air Squadron (19th KAO) and the 1st Combat Air Group (1st BAG) of Kozakov. In the Kozakov's air group these planes were initially considered to be two-seat fighters, but by the spring of 1917 they were replaced by "Nieuports" and "SPADs". The plane did not win the sympathy of pilots. Despite the significantly increased rates, the aircraft lost all the pleasure inherent in the Type L, was strict in piloting and didn't forgive mistakes. This was due to the fact that the attempt to improve the flight data of the aircraft only by replacing the engine with a more powerful one and by improving the aerodynamics did not take into account the centering of the aircraft, the efficiency of control, etc.

The photo shows a Morane-4 of the 7th KAO.

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Edited by Crawford
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17 hours ago, Geezer said:

Maybe you can help me with research?  I have been slowly working on two Morane-Saulnier aircraft that were used by Russia.  The M-S Type I was armed with a Vickers gun so the gun installation was different from the earlier "Bullet" types that were armed with Hotchkiss or Lewis guns.  Shot of the Type I model shows my best guess at the Vickers installation - but its only a guess.  Can you locate  better information?

On the famous photo of Ivan Smirnov some details of the cockpit interior are visible:

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Morane-Saulnier I (serial number MS740) from the 19th Kao, which in March-April 1917 was flown by senior non-commissioned officer Smirnov, who scored his second victory on it.

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Edited by Crawford
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Here are some more photos of the Smirnov's aircraft. In the late spring of 1917 pilot non-commissioned officer Ivan Smirnov on this airplane, together with Ensign Malyshev from the IVth Corps Detachment (also on a Monocoque), won one of his 9 victories. The aircraft had a standard 'yellow' camouflage, typical of French aircraft of the period 1916 - mid 1917. The entire aircraft was painted yellow, with one yellow paint used for wood and plywood parts, and another for canvas. Therefore, the nose part looks lighter. Identification marks (Russian cockades) were appeared in 4 positions. On the rudder, the emblem of the 19th KAO is a skull with crossed bones ('Adam's head'). The aircraft still has an outline along the fuselage spars and edges of the wings and tail.

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Ivan Smirnov and his “guest” - the captured German aviator Alfred Heft. Flying on the MS Type I, Ivan Smirnov won his 2nd victory (he won the first on the Nie-10, the 3rd and 4th victories he scored on the Nie-17, but the 5th victory - again on the Morane I (September 8, 1917). All other victories he already scored on the SPAD VII.

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Another Russian MS Type 6, 8th Fighter Squadron (presumably), spring-summer 1917. The aircraft received such a look and paint scheme after an overhaul in Russia.

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As for the cockpit interior, it is difficult to say anything definite. I have a couple of photos of broken Monococks, but nothing is clear there...

 

Edited by Crawford
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On 02.02.2019 at 8:56 PM, Geezer said:

565 were built, parceled out in twos and threes to most all French observation squadrons.  It was also used by the British and Russians.

In 1916-1917, the MS Type P used by the French Aeronautique Militaire as a scout on the western front, together with the Parasols of early modifications. Not a single French squadron was fully equipped with the MS Type P, although in many squadrons several airplanes of this type flew. In 1916, 142 planes were transferred to the British. 2 divisions of the British "Moranes" took part in the battle of the Somme.

Edited by Crawford
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Surface mapping, called UVW Unwrap in 3dsMax, is probably the most tedious and exacting task of 3D model making.  Yesterday, I was in the mood so I started mapping the Sopwith Triplane and M-S Type P.  After thinking about Crawford's observation about inner and outer wheel surfaces, I am making space in the mapping diagram for both surfaces.

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Edited by Geezer
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Several old photos of early Morane-Saulniers above display fabric and paintwork that is a bit lighter in value (shade of gray) than normal for French "Yellow" colors.  Shots below show experiments in trying to roughly match the values in an old photo.

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Played with the Bleriot a bit.  The rifle-armed observer may present a problem?  To look half-way realistic, the rifle must be positioned offset from the observer's body.  But, to swivel realistically, the center point must be centered on the observer's body.  So...the rifle will be offset from the center point.

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Edited by Geezer
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any way to cheat a little by having the rifle gunner sitting a little offset and then have him leaning a bit to bring the rifle closer to centerline? 

Edited by whiteknight06604

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