Escort Mission Odd AI Behavior

[Pensy101 4]

I've been having issues with escort missions in the Med Crisis expansion for SF2NA. To give an example from earlier, I was playing the El Dorado Canyon campaign as VF-84, escorting WOLFPACK flight (4 A-6s from VA-35) to a target on the Libyan coast. When WOLFPACK reached the target, they continued flying off into the desert until they hit the Wall, rather than turn back for the carrier as they should. Thus, I could not complete the mission. I have also noticed other flights of bombers doing the same thing during this playthrough, and I've had to abort and restart several missions after I've got one of these unwinnable escort misssions. Has anyone else experienced this, and if so, do you know what the solution is?

 

Thanks!

[+Major Bloodnok 465]

I think it is to do with the weapons that the AI are carrying.

The AI will not drop certain weapons, so they don't hit the target and fly on.

This does not happen when the AI are loaded with "dumb" bombs.

[+Menrva 4,200]

It's a bug that happens on stock SF2. Replaying the same mission works most of the time, they engage their targets instead of flying on.

What Major Bloodnock mentions is another problem that exists with third-party weapons. But in that case you'd see planes diving to attack the ground targets, yet they simply won't drop modern bombs unless they are dumb, unguided versions.

[+Gunrunner 314]

That's the same bug, but using two different bombing profiles*, the one Menrva describes is when guided bombs are mounted on AI flights trying to perform dive bombing attacks, the one described by Major Bloodnok is when they try to perform level bombing attacks with the same loadout.

* Don't ask me how the engine decides which to perform with FIGHTER or ATTACK planes, the same mission, with the same planes and loadout doesn't always lead to the same bombing profil being used by the AI, there's probably a RNG and a chance for each in some file for each plane type and mission type, but I haven't bothered searching for it. Only BOMBER are predictable as in my experience they only use level bombing.

[+Menrva 4,200]

4 hours ago, Gunrunner said:

That's the same bug, but using two different bombing profiles*, the one Menrva describes is when guided bombs are mounted on AI flights trying to perform dive bombing attacks, the one described by Major Bloodnok is when they try to perform level bombing attacks with the same loadout.

* Don't ask me how the engine decides which to perform with FIGHTER or ATTACK planes, the same mission, with the same planes and loadout doesn't always lead to the same bombing profil being used by the AI, there's probably a RNG and a chance for each in some file for each plane type and mission type, but I haven't bothered searching for it. Only BOMBER are predictable as in my experience they only use level bombing.

Wow, that's very informative, actually. What I do not understand is that it happens on stock SF2 with stock planes and weapons! It's an annoying bug TK never fixed. Actually, I doubt it existed in SF1. I don't recall it happening to me in my WOE days.

But, I don't think it has to do with FIGHTER or ATTACK profiles; planes assigned to the strike mission sometimes do not engage, they just fly over the given target area and keep flying forward, not even following waypoints.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Menrva

[+Gunrunner 314]

Actually they engage, they are marked as being engaged in level bombing, but since getting out of that state (and following the next waypoint, or trying another pass) requires dropping their bombs and they can't/won't, they remain in the level bombing mode, flying level, straight in the same direction.

The dive bombing profile is different because there's a distance to target/altitude set of conditions for getting out of it and doing another pass, so even if there is no weapon release, they disengage and try another pass, "endlessly".

At least the part I identified, you can see it by using the debug HUD info, it tells you which AI profile the plane you're observing is performing, the strike crafts going straight endlessly are stuck in level bombing.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Gunrunner

[Pensy101 4]

I think I found out what the problem is:

The flyovers always happened with A-6s, never with A-7s or F/A-18s. I checked the A-6E_79_LOADOUT.ini, and to cut a long story short, I learned that the MK82 Snakeye BaseQuantity is set to 12, and the Strike loadout equips 20 of them! Thus, the A-6s' inboard racks (which should have been loaded with 8 Snakeyes) are instead loaded with 8 CBU-100 AT cluster bombs. The AI does not drop these on buildings or other targets of Strike missions, and thus the A-6 flights do not expend all their ordnance, and somehow the AI reads this as "target not destroyed, keep flying." I went into Objects/Weapons/MK82SE/MK82SE_DATA.ini and adjusted the "BaseQuantity" value from 12 to 20 (BaseQuantity=20) I started a new campaign today and I haven't had a single problem. To anyone reading this, go into your Objects/Weapons folder and check your BaseQuantity values if you're having the problems I described.

[+Menrva 4,200]

11 hours ago, Gunrunner said:

Actually they engage, they are marked as being engaged in level bombing, but since getting out of that state (and following the next waypoint, or trying another pass) requires dropping their bombs and they can't/won't, they remain in the level bombing mode, flying level, straight in the same direction.

The dive bombing profile is different because there's a distance to target/altitude set of conditions for getting out of it and doing another pass, so even if there is no weapon release, they disengage and try another pass, "endlessly".

At least the part I identified, you can see it by using the debug HUD info, it tells you which AI profile the plane you're observing is performing, the strike crafts going straight endlessly are stuck in level bombing.

That's what I wanted to hear! Thank you for sharing the info. It what Pensy says it's confirmed to be true, I think there are a number of stock aircraft and weapons that need fixes.

[+daddyairplanes 10,243]

On 4/9/2019 at 1:45 AM, Menrva said:

But in that case you'd see planes diving to attack the ground targets, yet they simply won't drop modern bombs unless they are dumb, unguided versions.

another note on that, in many weapons packs (individual and in campaigns) there are two versions of guided munitions; the regular and a whatever_AI version. never dived in to see the difference other than the AI version is actually usable by the AI.

[JosefK 911]

3 minutes ago, daddyairplanes said:

another note on that, in many weapons packs (individual and in campaigns) there are two versions of guided munitions; the regular and a whatever_AI version. never dived in to see the difference other than the AI version is actually usable by the AI.

I can assure you the AI version of the Phoenix used by the TMF F-14 Tomcat Super Pack v1.32 by @Caesar works for AI, but the AI fires more than one.  Below is a burning Flogger of proof:

[Canadair 16]

On 9/4/2019 at 11:38 PM, Menrva said:

Wow, that's very informative, actually. What I do not understand is that it happens on stock SF2 with stock planes and weapons! It's an annoying bug TK never fixed. Actually, I doubt it existed in SF1. I don't recall it happening to me in my WOE days.

But, I don't think it has to do with FIGHTER or ATTACK profiles; planes assigned to the strike mission sometimes do not engage, they just fly over the given target area and keep flying forward, not even following waypoints.

it did happen in sf1:  AI flight would not drop guided bombs

[Canadair 16]

On 10/4/2019 at 2:30 AM, Pensy101 said:

I think I found out what the problem is:

The flyovers always happened with A-6s, never with A-7s or F/A-18s. I checked the A-6E_79_LOADOUT.ini, and to cut a long story short, I learned that the MK82 Snakeye BaseQuantity is set to 12, and the Strike loadout equips 20 of them! Thus, the A-6s' inboard racks (which should have been loaded with 8 Snakeyes) are instead loaded with 8 CBU-100 AT cluster bombs. The AI does not drop these on buildings or other targets of Strike missions, and thus the A-6 flights do not expend all their ordnance, and somehow the AI reads this as "target not destroyed, keep flying." I went into Objects/Weapons/MK82SE/MK82SE_DATA.ini and adjusted the "BaseQuantity" value from 12 to 20 (BaseQuantity=20) I started a new campaign today and I haven't had a single problem. To anyone reading this, go into your Objects/Weapons folder and check your BaseQuantity values if you're having the problems I described.

What you noticed is interesting but has nothing to do with what we are talking about : the AI flights WILL drop un guided bombs, but will not drop guided bombs