French (and other) Airpower in Indochina

[Wrench]

As some of you may know, there is a mod in the works for the 1st Indochina War. I'm going to share some of the aircraft that will be in the mod, eventually Everything used herein is available here at CA, or are stock aircraft "adjusted" to fit. Nothing from anywhere else will be used or discussed.  Unless someone want to build new ones...

The terrain (VietnamSEA) is in heavy rework, as Menrva has scrapped off everything above the bedrock, and we are rebuilding it, litteraly, from the ground up. It will, however, remain the "stock" 63% size.

Reminder: several of the aircraft will not be seen as they're "unavailable". To remedy this, stand in's or aircraft used by the units will have later versions implemented earlier (ie: C-47 for Toucan). Several aircraft used are VERY old, and do have several flaws (mesh bleeds with decals, shadow ropes, incorrect shapes, etc)

Please try and hold your questions until all the images have been posted!  DO NOT POST THEM WITHIN THIS SCREENSHOT THREAD -- THAT'S NOT WHAT THE SCREENSHOT FORUM IS FOR!!! POST THEM IN THE GENERAL DISCUSSION FORUM, IF NEEDED.

This thread was created ONLY to show you all what will be available when this mod is finished.

Thank you!

---------

Early day, directly post-WW2, to 1947

GC I/7 Provence, Ki=43iiI 

GC II/7 Nice, ex=RAF 273 Squadron Spitire Mk.VIII (as there are no photos or other visual evidence, the aircraft remains in RAF SEAC camoflague

GC I/6 Corse, Mosquito FB Mk.VI

GT II/62 Franche-Comte C-47 Skytrain (Dakota)

 

[Wrench]

Early days, AeroNavale (46-49-ish)

Flotille 1 Seafire MkIII

Flotille 3 SBD Dauntless

Flotille 4 SBD Dauntless

Flotille 8 PBY-5A Catalina

More to come! Next, the Mk. IX Spits!

[Wrench]

As the existing aircraft wore out or rotted (Mosquito), new aircraft were sent from France. In this case "almost" new Spitfire Mk.IXs.

When the crated Spitfire Mk. IXs arrived from France, replacing the worn out ex-IJAAF & IJN aircraft  they were assembled somewhat piecemeal. "C" fuselages were given "E" wings and vice versa, and both models served with the same squadrons. Since the game engine does not allow for mixed aircraft units, C & E winged Spits will all be seperate.

Each of the units rotated through French Indochina, and those dates are listed on the texture set ini, and the displayed name, as below:

Spit9C:

GC II/7 "Nice" (<3/46)

GC I/7 "Provence" (<3/46)

GC II/2 "Cigones" <7/46

GC I/4 "Dauphine" (<6/47)

GC I/6 "Corse" (<4/50-51)

Spit 9E

GC II/4 "La Fayette" (<6/47)

GC II/3 "Champagne" (<12/48)

-----------------------------------------------------

Aircraft shown below are:

GC II/2 Cigones 

GC II/4 Lafayette

 

 

Next Up: Airacobras

[PFunk]

Was the F8F Bearcat in service with the Aeronavale at the time?  I know they operated it, just didn't know if it saw action in Indochina.

[jeanba]

I never found any reliable mention of the use of Aéronavale Bearcat over Indochina

For instance here:

http://www.postedeschoufs.com/aeronavale/1946_1962/5 L'Indochine/l_indochine.htm

 

Mainly Hellcats + Helldivers + Privateers + some more exotic planes

Edited January 27, 2020 by jeanba

[+1977Frenchie]

Bearcat pictures in Indochina link :

http://www.frenchwings.net/indochina/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=9

[Wrench]

AdA only

Keep your pant's on; you'll get to see the pictures!! 

[Wrench]

As there is no readily or freely available P-63 Kingcobra*, a judgement call has to be made to use the existing P-39 Airacobra in it's place. Mind you, this does present a few problems; differences in weapons loads being the most major. Using the 39D as a base, I've modified it into the 39Q, which was used by the AdA in The Med and Southern Europe. These carry underwing 50 cal gunpods, but only the single centerline hardpoint for bombs or drop tanks. (as the map is only 63%, while problematic, isn't too big of an issue)

They started arriving in 1948-ish, as the Spitfires were wearing out. They remained in service until 1951, when replaced by newer aircraft shipped from the USA. Just about all units are repsented:

GC II/6 "Normandie-Niemen"

GC I/5 "Vendee"

GC III/5 "Roussillon"

GC II/5 "Ile de France"

GC II/9 "Auvergne"

GC I/9 "Limousin"

==================

Shown below are 

GC II/6 (you can tell NN by the red/white/blue spinner, same as their Yaks)

GC II/9 (on the runway)

GC II/5 (Aircraft "I". You'll notice the famous sandbar in the Red River, and the Paul Doumer bridge over the left wing tip)

 

 

* of course, if someone wants to build one .... I'm available to help with skinning and FMs...

[Wrench]

AeroNavale upgrades!

To replace the Dauntless' before they became completely unflyable,  SB2C Helldivers were acquired (ok, bought). They were -5s, but the only major difference from the -4 we have is the lack of the full "blown one-piece" canopy for the pilot.

Flying from the 3 carriers (Aerromanches, Bois Belleau and La Fayette) and sometimes land bases. Here we have Helldivers from 

Flotille 3

Flottille 9

[Wrench]

With the fall of mainland China to the Communists, the US government woke up to the threat of their expansion in Asia (and soon to be engaged with them on the Korean peninsula)

As an interim measure, F6F Hellcats were delivered to the AdA for use in Indochina from land bases (note: Flotille 1 also had them, but no records exist of them being deployed to FIC)

Only a few units seemed to have used the Hellcat, 

GC II/6 "Normandie-Niemen"

GC I/9 "Limousin"

GC II/9 "Auvergne"

GC I/6 "Corse" (the last to trade in their Spitfires in 1951, having never used the Kingcobra)

---------------------------------

shown below:

GC I/9

GC II/9

GC I/6

bonus image: Hellcat departing Gia Lam Airport

 

[Wrench]

More American aid allowed for actual bomber aircraft to be deployed. In 1951, the A-26 Invader (renamed to B-26) began arriving and being used.

(Please note, as has been discussed elsewhere on CA, these lods have been hex edited to use jpg textures; no more problems with DDS files. At some point in time, maybe I'll do the same for the KAW versions.)

As is usual, the bomber squadrons used a mix of B (gun nosed) and C (glass nosed) versions with themselves. As has been stated above, and many times across the years, they can't be mixed. So, the 2 squadrons are split between the models:

GB I/19 "Gascogne" gets the A-26B

GB I/25 "Tunisie" gets the A-26C

below, you have their portraits

If anyone has any information about a third A-26 unit (mentions of one have been encountered in my researches), please pass that along via PM

[NIELS]

This looks BAD ASS! Looking forward to this one...........Nice work!

[+russouk2004]

You deserve a medal kev m8...thats a lot of hard work and research...top job...as ever

[Wrench]

Thanks Russ!! 

This is just the planes!  There's the rest of the world, in particular the physical map itself!! Fortunately, I have access to real, period specific maps and charts (all dated 1955!!!). Once the aircraft and terrain is finished, then the campaign guys can start their magic. As to ground objects, some are stand in types (repurposed 3w things) Some armored cars are missing, little things that aren't important, but add the extra "omph".

Also, a correction. Frenchie had sent me a link to a site I've been using that has lots of photos of French airpower in Indochina, and it DOES appear the Aeronavale DID deploy their Hellcats in FIC. So, I've added back the Flotille 1 skin to the Hellcat.

I DO wish we had the "missing" aircraft (ok, maybe unusable is better term?)

[Wrench]

I know you've all been waiting for these, the Bearcats. Now, please do remember, while the aircraft has all the correct shaping, there are some issuse. First and foremost is the large shadow rope/tractor beams from somewhere in the main gear wells.  I've tried to mitigate it by shortening the distance (as much as I can) that the shadow is cast. But ... well, y'all know how that goes. Also, there's no folding wings. That's not a real issue for land based planes, but still...(well, after all the aircraft was released in 2006 so...we should be thankful the canopy opens and closes!!)

So, we have the following units represented:

I/8 "Saintonge"

I/21 "Artois"

GC II/9 "Auvergne"

GC I/9 "Limousin"

GC II/8 "Languedoc"

GC I/6 "Corse"

GC III/6 "Roussillon"

=======

Shown below:

GC I/6

GC I/21

GC II/8

GC III/6

 

[Wrench]

Aeronavale Corsairs have been around for a while. The skins used here are from Paulopanz's excellent French Corsair package.

You'll have the F4U-7 and AU-1. 

AU-1 from Flotille 14

F4U-7s from Flotilles 12 & 14

There are several skins for each (including some into the 1960s, used possibly in Algeria? I removed the Operation Musketeer -Suez- skins from the Vietnam48 mod folder)

 

[Wrench]

Monty's C-119 also appears, from "Detachment 119" as loaned from the USAF. With thanks to Joe Bauer's site, I was able to run down 18 100% historical serial numbers. Don't know how the player will actually be using them (along with the C-47), but I figured 18 was good number.

Raven's Fi-156 Storch, in it's MS-500 Criquet form also appears for eye candy and recon/laison duties. Pity FAC was removed from the game...(skins also by Paulo)

[Wrench]

After the withdrawal of French forces, the partition of FIC into North and South Vietnam (and the other places), the newly formed Republic of Viet Nam Air Force carried on with the aircraft the French left behind (in truth, training of the pilots and ground crew started before the Battle of Dien Bein Phu)

Here we have Bearcats from the 1st Fighter Squadron, in their original dark gloss Navy blue, and post-1960 natural metal.

and an RVNAF Criquet

(Bearcats by me, MS-500 from Paulo's Mod Pack)

These aircraft would (could) be used on the stock VietnamSEA map, with a small text edit to the terrains main ini, to give it a start date of 1956.

[Wrench]

Those of you that know me, and my work, know I'm a stickler for historical accuracy. And normally, the following would be posted in the "What If..." thread. But, as to not let them get lost among the usual background noise, choose to use my FIC thread.

It's obvious, of course, that these will not be included in any upload for a "Vietnam 1948" scenario.

--====

Now, lets take a look at this first one. Instead of fielding Mosquitos, with all their attendant issues in a tropical climate, what if the AdA choose to send Beaufighters instead?

We have the full advantage of a rugged, all-metal airframe, with sturdy air cooled radial engines. The Beau had/has a reputation of being fairly fast and manuverable, a good warload, good guns and excellent range. Here we have a Beaufighter TF Mk.X, which also has the advantage of radar, giving it a limited night and all weather capability The guns and rocket loads would be devestating to ground troops, vehicles, ships and with bombs most structures.

The aircraft shown here is from GC I/6 "Oranie"

 

As mentioned in a recent release of the post-war P-47D-40 Thunderbolt, the Ada already had a large number of Jugs at their disposal. Many in Western Europe, as part of Occupation Forces in Germany, many in France for air defense, and more in the North African colonies (Algeria). Many of the Real Life (tm) units that used ex-RAF Spitfires and AdA P-63 Kingcobras were P-47 units. The aircraft were left behind due to the fear of the US not providing support (because we were against re-colonialization)

So, what if Washington (President Truman and the State Department) could see this as a spread of communism into southeast asia, and not a colonial power re-asserting itself? Support would be forthcoming and the Jugs could have been sent to Indochina.

Here we have a P-47D-40 Thunderbolt of GC II/6 "Travail". The squadron codes used here are exactly the same as those historically used on their P-63s in Algeria.

================

Now, lets really go round the bend...

The VPAF, as we all know didn't really exist as that entity unitl the 1960s. Although, a few aircraft WERE available to the Viet Minh as early as 1949 (Tiger Moths, maybe 2 of them). In 1956 pilots had been sent for training in the USSR. We know that there was a transport squadron, and possibly other "utility" types in service by the late 1950s.

So, what if, in 1945/46 the Viet Minh also take advantage of any serviceable and/or repairable left over Japanese aircraft?? It's really not that big a reach; they're not dumb, and have access to the same resources as the French. It's quite concievable that using ex-Japanese POWs (or forced to work) ground crew and even pilots (or train VM "volenteers"), they could field a few aircraft. Other than the will to do so, I don't see why they couldn't have.

So, what we have here below is a Ki-43ii "Oscar" slap-dashedly painted in a disruptive 2-tone green scheme, sporting the Viet Minh flag.

 

Now, in 1949, the world changes yet again. Mao and the communists in mainland China have thrown out the Nationalists, and have begun consolidating their power base. Supported (read: requipped) by the Soviet Union, the PRC starts spreading its message throughout Asia. We know they supported the North Koreans from 1951 with everything imaginable. They also started assisting their brethren to the south with arms and other supplies.

The fall of mainland China to communist forces is what, historically, opened the way for US support of the French in Indochina. This is shown in 1951, when the US & UN forces were heavily involved in the Korean War, sending Helldivers, Hellcats, Bearcats and Corsairs to the French. The world was starting to think about the "domino effect" of the spread of communism.

So, what if Mao (excuse me - the PLAAF-) had sent a squadron or 2 of their newly acquired (from the USSR) Yak-9s? Just as in Korea, where they were also encountered by UN forces, they'd carry bogus Vietnamese markings (yes, I know the star-bar would be wrong for the time period; probably still using the Vietminh flag as above). There were several ex-Japanese air bases within the communist controlled regions of Tonkin (soon to be North Vietnam), or even fly out of airstrips in southern China. 

Shown here is a Yak-9 of the 1st People's Volunteer Air Regiment. The Yak-9 was one of the best aircraft to come out from the WW2 Soviet manufacturers, and would definately given any Western aircraft a run for it's money.

 

Please feel free to comment on any of the screenshots in the thread - the historical or the fantasy

Thanks!

 

[+Menrva]

9 hours ago, Wrench said:

The VPAF, as we all know didn't really exist as that entity unitl the 1960s. Although, a few aircraft WERE available to the Viet Minh as early as 1949 (Tiger Moths, maybe 2 of them). In 1956 pilots had been sent for training in the USSR. We know that there was a transport squadron, and possibly other "utility" types in service by the late 1950s.

Would be fun to have Tiger Moths. Are you planning to skin those, Kevin? At least Red Side gets something flyable for single missions, although for transport and recon only.

EDIT: I also found the following Tiger Moth skin for the French forces in Indochina during WW2: https://combatace.com/files/file/12185-vichy-tiger-moth/

Edited February 14, 2020 by Menrva

[Stratos]

Kev, any chance of this puppy in french markings?

 

[+russouk2004]

quite a comprehensive list kev m8...its a game in itself...

[Wrench]

Sorry, Jordi, no jets Keeping it historical   (get it!??) Are templates available for that?? Other wise, it's just simple decal work

I have Russ's Tiger Moth, and the templates. Wonder what I can do with that .... and it has a Lewis gun mounted on the top wing. Hmm..... shifr/R should be available in SF2 .....

[Wrench]

My Tigermoth templates were NOT as complete as I first thought, so I had to finish off redoing all the lines

I took Lloyd's Vichy TM, and simply painted out the single number, and gate it 18 "plane-in-squad" decals. A simple, if probably NOT historycally accurate fix. I may load this as an update, if it's waranted.

 

 

 

Menrva sent me a link to the 2 real TMs taht Boa Dai had, and became the first aircarft of the Viet Minh. But, I'd already done this one. Standard "day camo" over silver dope. 18 generic numbers

 

More into the What If... since Mao is already sending help in the form of the Yak-9s, why would they neglect the strike/assault elements? Here's an IL-10 from the "10th Volunteer Assault Regiment" (or whatever!! :)  )

[+russouk2004]

Moth templates complete and all decals I did

TigerMoth Templates.7z