Benchmark comparisons: BH&H II vs PE

[redwolf 19]

(I love the new sim so far - just think it is wonderful! (just getting that out-of-the-way first)) 

This is in no way a certainty for any particular user, and I am not concluding that this will be the case for everyone. Indeed, people's experiences can vary and be different. Users may experience different outcomes depending on their own systems and set-ups. 

This however, is my experience.

My system: Windows 10, i5-7600, Nvidia GTX 1660 Super, 16GB system ram:   run at 1080p.

Rationale:

I wanted to know specifically what impact BH&H II would have on my system in comparison to what I was running with WOFF Platinum Edition. I used my PE settings with VonS graphical presets installed because after all, what is meaningful to me is how BH&H II performs to what I already had (so this was NOT a purely native PE comparison).

Proceedure:

Before I uninstalled Platinum Edition, I ran several benchmarks with it in anticipation of BH&H II. For the purpose of testing, I chose 3 quick scenarios: Defend St. Omer, Snipes Intercept DFW, and Large Dogfight. I utilized FRAPs benchmarking function and timed a 2-min play through fps tracking for each of the 3 missions five times. I did this after panning around the entire environment for approx. 3-5 secs each time. I recognize that it was impossible to do a purely scientific evaluation/benchmark as extraneous variables could not be controlled precisely (eg. cloud positioning not identical, AI (both enemy & friendly) not reacting identically, player not able to be exact in reactions at precise time in precise way each time, different aircraft getting damaged (or not), etc. -- in essence, different situations each play through). However, this was the best that I could do and it gives at least a very reasonable "indication" of the performance of each incidence.  When I installed BH&H II I was careful to utilize the exact same workshop settings. I followed the same procedure and ran the exact same 3 missions 5 times each - benchmarking with FRAPS.

Results:

I have data on each run's minimum and maximum FPS as well as average FPS over that 2 min interval in each case. The minimum and maximum don't interest me much here as these variables are particularly influenced by extraneous events (eg. 3 aircraft burn and break-up on the screen at the same time -- not saying that happened, but you get the idea). For the purpose of this testing, I was most interested in average FPS and will be reporting that. In each case, I report the 5 run average. 

Platinum Edition:

Defend St. Omer:  98.1 fps average

Snipes Intercept DFW: 89.8 fps average

Large Dogfight: 99.8 fps average

Overall average: 95.9 fps

Between Heaven & Hell II:

Defend St. Omer: 70.5 fps average (-21%)

Snipes Intercept DFW:  64.1 fps average (-28.6%)

Large Dogfight: 70.0 fps average (- 29.9%)

Overall average: 70.5 fps (-26.5%)

Conclusion:

Obviously I took quite a framerate hit. BH&H II, everything else being equal, is quite demanding on my system.  I have not done any campaigning yet - and it may likely be impacted even greater there. It is probably at the max limit I want to go with my system. I may look to turn down some of the workshop settings (but it is always more painful to take things away than add them). I will also try to see whether VonS graphic presets from PE work and have an impact (but that is another investigation).

On a side note - though I haven't specifically been measuring this, one thing I seem to be noticing is that stutter appears to be GREATLY diminished vs PE (and that is a FANTASTIC thing!) - in other words, I can put myself in situations where I would normally get some stutter (or trigger it often with PE) but not have it occur with BH&H II. Not saying it is gone completely -- but is sure seems improved to me at this point. 

 

Happy flying everyone!

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Polovski
edit corrected PE Snipes Intercept DFW 89.8 as requested

[Hellshade 110]

PanamaRed's mod bumps my FPS by 20 to 30 over stock BHaH II.    You sacrifice distant ground textures but if you aren't zooming in on them you don't really notice the difference.  Only the FPS bump.   

It will be interesting to see how the modders tweak things to get even more performance out of the new system.  Overall, I have to agree that BHaH II is the smoothest flying experience yet for me.  But as you say, a lot can depend on system specifics, settings, etc.   

 

Thanks for testing redwolf!

 

[redwolf 19]

Oops, slight correction (hey, can we not edit posts on this forum (????)) - PE. Snipes Intercept reported as 95.9 -- should be 89.8.

Your welcome

(and Edit: I guess the edit is time dependent or unavailable on first post (or uneditable if someone replies (?))

Edited April 8, 2021 by redwolf

[+VonS 1,424]

Posts are editable on CombatAce but only once a certain no. of posts are made - the first several posts, I think, are time-dependent editable.

Cheers all and thank you Redwolf for the detailed benchmark comparisons - I look forward to your further tests.

Happy flying,

Von S

Edited April 8, 2021 by VonS
Fixed typos.

[+Polovski 460]

OK edited.

 

As in the other thread about mouse look, a good test would be Stock v Stock same mission - i.e. no modded configs.
In theory by definition BH&H II must be less performance due to all the tons of extra animations and other features.  However, there have been many other changes for example some improved aircraft LODs and so on so perhaps in places that accounts for some possible speed improvements or similar performance some users have seen.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Polovski

[TROOPER117 146]

35 minutes ago, Adger said:

BH&H II and WOTR really do have an exciting future ahead.

Could not agree more... Looking forward to it.

Oh, and good info Redwolf!

[Adger 87]

Good post RedWolf..My 2p,s worth..my fps is down say 5% but it feels a hell of a lot smoother, Trackir is smooth as silk, looks visually much much better. Also ive noticed that from campaign to flight screen is waaayyy quicker, wonder if the scenery draws in quicker now and thats why to me it seems "smoother"

Love everything about it, the Scenery, goggles Skins, Music+Sounds ..still in training so haven't had my Ar$e handed to me yet by the AI .

Absolutely phenomenal work ..BH&H II and WOTR really do have an exciting future ahead.

 

Edit: Sorry Trooper i tried editing my post and ended up deleting hence the new post

[redwolf 19]

12 minutes ago, TROOPER117 said:

Could not agree more... Looking forward to it.

Oh, and good info Redwolf!

Thanks.

Me as well - though a cautionary thing for me personally is to probably avoid any dlc that adds FPS - so for example, a dlc that adds actual falling leaves to the trees in the autumn would likely be out  - but aircraft should be fine.

Still have lots of additional testing to do, and I am sure there will be modded tweaks coming and indeed perhaps developer ones as well (?)  

(...onward now to look at VonS gpu tuner and BH&H II )

Edited April 8, 2021 by redwolf

[redwolf 19]

Update

(the level playing field test (?))

I have installed the same VonS Gpu tuner mods for WOFF PE into BH&H II as I had operating in my PE version to test and see if they work and what impact they have. In my particular case I have installed:

• 01_VonS_MaxFPSnGraphicsGPUtuner_ver1.1.1
• 02_VonS_4RingDimPatchForGPUtuner_ver1.2
• 04_VonS_CrisperTextureBudgetsForGPUtuner_ver1.4

Again, identical to my previous PE install. And yes, they work fine with no ill effects I have found to date. I did the same procedure as reported in the first post. I will repost the results of the first post to show a comparison to the now VonS Gpu tuner modded BH&H II.

Results (numbers represent average framerates):

Platinum Edition (this with VonS Gpu ):                                                             BH&H II (with VonS tuner)        Change                               BH&H II (unaltered/stock)          Change (vs. VonS)

Defend St. Omer:                                  98.1                                                                      97.9                                       - 0.2 %                                        77.5                                                  +26.3%

Snipes Intercept DFW:                         89.8                                                                      73.1                                       - 18.6%                                       64.1                                                  +14%

Large Dogfight:                                     99.8                                                                      86.1                                       -13.7%                                         70.0                                                  +23%

Overall average:                                   95.9                                                                       85.7                                       -10.6%                                          70.5                                                 +21.6%

Conclusion:

For me and my system, everything being equal and with VonS Gpu tuner functioning in both cases, I lose about 10% FPS on average with BH&H II vs PE. The gpu tuner helps quite a bit and it averages approximately 20% gain in FPS vs. stock BH&H II with identical workshop settings on my system. Hope this may be useful to some.

Will probably eventually check with VonS gpu tuner for WOTR injected (as he suggested it may indeed be even better for BH&H II than his PE tuner -- but alas, that is yet another investigation to do...)

[Adger 87]

Are you losing much in the visual stakes Redwolf? smaller draw distance ect? cheers

[redwolf 19]

Seems fine, but I am more focused on staying alive, lol - that large dogfight mission is indeed quite deadly/challenging now. Will be running back and forth looking a visual quality, but just wanted to get a good solid feel of framerates atm.

[HarryH 17]

Interesting stuff Redwolf, thanks. I'm glad you mentioned how much improved the stuttering appears to be. I wasn't feeling brave enough to do that. I'm still suffering post traumatic tweaking disorder from trying to get PE to run as smoothly as possible but this new version is running beautifully out of the box for me. I'm going to resist the temptation to start messing with older mods and just play it with stock settings. I don't know what magic OBD has worked. Per Polovski's post, they have an improved (more granular?) LOD scheme for rendering far away aircraft and scenery, so perhaps that's making the difference. So far I'm seeing no real performance hit with the new version, but I am seeing improved smoothness. Didn't have to change any TrackIR settings either. This thing's awesome!!

[Adger 87]

Im going to do exactly the same Harry, ive had a small FPS drop but it all feels smoother im leaving any mods off for the time being. The lads have done a absolutely cracking job.

[TROOPER117 146]

Agreed, at the moment I don't see a need for a mod, so many improvements!

However, one does not know what the mod wizards with their black art can pull out of their hats  

[RAF_Louvert 101]

I also see no need for fiddling about with BHaH II in attempts to improve performance.  It is running beautifully for me right now with everything max'd out in 1918.  Smooth visuals and fast loading, best I've seen really from any OFF/WOFF version.

[Adger 87]

I believe VonS has mentioned that with his mod on you’ll lose some ambient sounds aswell. I tried Panama Reds mod just has a quick test and I believe I lost some sounds there aswell. My opinion fwiw,  I agree with others ..it’s the smoothest version so far it loads incredibly quick, beautiful sound beautiful visuals. I’m keeping mods off for the time being but..it could help folks with less powerful rigs that might not mind losing some of BHaH II features so for that cheers Redwolf for testing and thanks VonS for the mod.

[redwolf 19]

No, the ambient sound loss was only if you used his Flight Models - not his GPU tuner.

[redwolf 19]

14 hours ago, Adger said:

Are you losing much in the visual stakes Redwolf? smaller draw distance ect? cheers

 

Okay, I have been going back and forth with it on and off - and also took screenshots for myself to compare. Honestly, the visual distance is very similar - if anything, I can see further with VonS Gpu tuner tweaks I had installed (previously mentioned). No real difference in distance quality that I can see/or notice anyway. There is perhaps slightly less trees (but you really have to be looking for it).

What is different however, is that VonS has a sharpening in the shaders I believe and also a bit of a difference in the lighting/colorization - tuned to the previous PE that was more undefined/soft and a bit lacking in that nice green with stock. However,  this isn't necessary with BH&H II as the developers have already sharpened the landscape. With VonS (and this is difficult because unlike fps measuring, it is purely a measure of opinion/taste) I find it a bit too sharp and prefer the natural stock colorization (or lighting (if that is indeed impacting)) - Von S is appearing subtly a bit more yellow and/or lighter. Prefer stock here.

And yes, Pol and Winder have done a fantastic job with the new edition for sure! In my case, since I am relatively "lower end" I suppose, I am just struggling a bit more than others I suppose to get better fps and maintain that awesome visual quality. Of particular concern to me personally however, is the mouse view (as I use that as my main way to look around (I have it mapped to mini-stick on throttle), and it has definitely taken a hit in fluidity vs PE with identical workshop settings. VonS has helped improved that -- though I am still examining (incidentally I just threw in Panama Red's Balance tweaks/mod and wow, that has the most significantly improved fluidity in my viewing than anything to date - while still keeping stock lighting/colorization (and looks to be quite good on my fps too (still testing - but trending really really well).)

Still lots to look at --- and I absolutely LOVE THIS SIM! it is AMAZING!!!! So I am of course going to spend the time to get it the way I want it for my system and my tastes for sure!

Happy Flying!

Edited April 9, 2021 by redwolf

[Adger 87]

Thanks for clarifying a few things Redwolf, il have a proper nosy later and give it a good going over. Many thanks for taking the time to not only test but also to report your findings..appreciated pal.

[+VonS 1,424]

Thank you Redwolf for the detailed reports - and yes, the shaders.xml file in my WOFF GPU Tuner patch was intended for the PE variant of WOFF, as a partial substitution for the lack of SweetFX enhancements that I could easily use with ver. 4.18 of WOFF. It turns on extra lighting effects and whatnot, giving more greenery to the grass, etc. (visible in some of the pics. under the "Casual Campaigns" thread over on SimHQ). I don't recommend using the shaders.xml file in BHAH.II since BHAH.II, color-wise, appears to have more stock greenery anyway - unless someone of course likes the further, added brightness that the tweaked shaders.xml file brings to BHAH.II (they are welcome to go wild with the colors as per taste ). Pleased to hear that PR's patch is also handling nicely in BHAH.II - that one was tested on nVidia (mine on AMD vid. cards) - so test everything thoroughly (as you are) and pick the one that works best on your rig. both for max. FPS but also smoothness, and minimal degradation of texture quality. Good luck with the tweaks.

Cheers all,

Von S

Edited April 10, 2021 by VonS
Added info.

[redwolf 19]

UPDATE: 

Though these have no actual barring in the FPS comparison between sets (as this has been strictly maintained/controlled in each case), these are my Workshop settings that I have been using with my system in both PE and now in BH&H II in case anyone was interested: 

AC 5 ,TR 3, SC 3, EF 5, CL 5, AS 5, TS 3, TBM 1, CSS 9, CSD 8, EnR 5, GL 5, DL 1

I utilized the exact same testing procedure as detailed in first post. I tested out Panama Red's "WOFF PE Scenery Improved (Balanced)" with BH&H II (it includes various fps tweaks (so is more than just its title, jsyk)) and also by suggestion and request, VonS's WOTR GPU tuner (properly installed and injected into BH&H II). I utilized both VonS_MaxFPSnGraphicsGPUtuner_ver1.1 with VonS_MaxFPSnGraphicsGPUtuner_ver1.2 - it was thought that the WOTR tunes may be better suited for BH&H II vs. his PE GPU tuner. I will consolidate data from previous testing for comparison purposes as well.

Results (numbers indicate FPS average):

BH&H II Stock                           With VonS GPU tuner (PE)                             With PR SI (Balanced) (PE)                                       With VonS GPU tuner (WOTR)

Defend            77.5                               97.9                                                                      94.9                                                                                   95.3

Snipes             64.1                               73.1                                                                      76.6                                                                                   65.1

Large DF         70.0                               86.1                                                                      83.2                                                                                   66.8

Average           70.5                              85.7                                                                       84.9                                                                                   75.7

Average Change vs Stock               +22.6%                                                                 + 20.4%                                                                               +7.4%

 

Obviously results can vary per system and settings. These have just been my precise experiences on mine through as controlled a testing procedure I could do (see disclaimer first post). And these all offer differences in visual experiences as well -- and those are far more subjective so I will leave it in this post as a purely factual numbers. Hope this has been interesting or useful to some of you - and thank you both VonS and Panama Red for your work with WOFF - outstanding! And thank you BH&H II developers for creating such an amazing simulation and indeed, tribute. It is absolutely incredible! (as is the series in totality).

On a personal note, I am continuing to investigate settings/changes/alterations that can help me mitigate an issue near and dear to me that seems to be the only real drawback/negative - and that is the fluidity of mouse view in particular that has changed for me since moving to BH&H II - however, since it is of more personal nature, I will reframe from posting my continued investigation of it in here.

 

Happy flying everyone!

Edited April 10, 2021 by redwolf

[BuckeyeBob 34]

Thank you, Redwolf. Interesting findings.

I also noticed in a couple of BHaH2 videos (I haven't installed BHaH2, yet), the reappearance of some blue triangles. Hopefully, either VonS's or PR's video mods will eliminate those as they did in WOFF UE and PE.

[redwolf 19]

Thanks.

I haven't seen one yet. There is a rectangular'ish lake not that far from St. Omer (that could appear as a blue triangle depending on the positioning), so you perhaps could be seeing that - idk. But no, personally I haven't seen one so far (though I've been almost equally split between mods and stock).

...................

Also interesting further discovers (but still early to tell conclusively), but the mods seem to have diminishing returns once one starts turning down the landscape settings in workshop (at least very much appear that way in my case anyway (eg. VonS PE is performing pretty much identical to stock fps when I brought TR, SC, and TS down to 2 (previously all at 3) - though the low end of the fps ranges are still up. PR (balanced) is looking to be the same so far too). It may indeed be the case that the benefit gained is enhanced the higher you go perhaps, but then hits close to par with stock when dropped below 3 - not sure, but looking that way.

Edited April 11, 2021 by redwolf

[BuckeyeBob 34]

If you look in the compositetexture and compositescenery files, you will note there are five "budgets" that correspond with the texture and scenery detail settings in Workshop. Without looking at the mods, I assume that they have only made adjustments for the highest setting, so that is why they may not work as well for the lower ones.

Easily fixed, if enough people ask for it, although I assume most prefer the highest graphic detail possible. Might be worth considering for those of us using lower end computers, though.

[redwolf 19]

Yes, I'd like to be higher in the terrain related settings as well, tbh - but if I am going to run with the virtual cockpit, it is going to have to be a give and take with BH&H II as it isn't working out well with Stock 3-3-3 for me (though non-virtual is absolutely fine - it is a shame it isn't matching PE here for me). So it's going to be either 3-3-3 (terrain related) with mods or 2-2-2 stock (or 2-2-2 stock with mods) at the moment --- still testing.

And thanks for the info. Though I am not a modder myself (only real tweaking experience in the past with me has been reshade & settings there), the PR (balance) one, by description seems to suggest it works with all settings (high or low) and I thought VonS (PE) would be the same -- but you may be quite right. Testing through PR at lower right now and it isn't bearing too much fruit at the moment (similar to VonS)...but still testing.

Edited April 11, 2021 by redwolf