Is the MiG-15 inferior at dogfighting or am I just a crap pilot?

[clim995]

Okay so hear me out. I finally plated the NATO fighter campaign in 1953. Guess I just got tired with the short and sharp dogfights of the Radar missile era of the late cold war so I decided to jump to the 1953 campaign on the MiG-15bis cockpit. Well, I have experience with supersonic jet gunfights (MiG-19 is my all-time favorite) but riding the MiG-15bis with a vastly inferior engine is something I am not prepared for.

Sure, I could chase turboprop attack aircraft (A-26 Invaders are my favorite prey!) but I kind of struggle catching with jet engine ones without getting too distracted by my fuel reserves. Once I managed to trash F-84S (they were on a strike configuration and were running away) when I happened to chance upon two Canadair Sabres. They tried to run-away as well but I was too determined to catch them and I eventually did but then they dropped their tanks and turned around and an ensuing dogfight erupted between me and my wingman.

Suffice to say, in my opinion, MiG-15bis guns were horrible. The entire aircraft had the tendency to lose alignment when firing and the bullet ballistics is crap owing to the heavier caliber. The turn radius seems to be terrible as well, as the Canadair Sabre effortlessly managed to outturn me. Then I found myself being chased, completely at their mercy. A Sabre fired a 50 caliber salvo and grazed my wing, clipping my aileron (thank god the tank didn't explode) and I managed to emergency land to a nearby airfield while my wingman managed to shoot one of the Sabre who tried to finish me on my landing approach.

In my opinion, MiG-15bis is a terrifying interceptor and absolutely crap dogfighter, but still, I want to hear your side and opinions on this.

Is the MiG-15bis inferior at dogfighting or am I just a crap dogfighter (lol)? 

(screenshots of my MiG-15bis barely managing to escape from the two Murderous Canadair Sabre on my tail lol)

[+Gepard]

In game the Sabres are overrated. You can also say the MiG-15bis is underrated. They are not made by the same developer, thatswhy the differences. You may cheat and change the flightmodel of the MiG-15bis to make this plane turn better. Its your decision. Its only a game.

In reality the planes were comparable. The plane with the better pilot on the stick would win the battle. The MiG had a better climb rate and acceleration. At altitudes over 8.000 meters it was able to outturn the Sabre. Below this altitude the advantage of the MiG was gone and as closer you came to earth the Sabre became better. It was a bad tactic to try to outcurve a Sabre in a MiG-15bis. The tactic said in such situation to use the better climb rate and pull up.

You also must know, that the F-86F and later versions are at the same development level as the MiG-17. I dont know why the soviets gave a new type designation to the MiG-17. The most parts of MiG-17 and MiG-15 are the same. Only the wings and the tail section are different. The MiG-17 was developed as MiG-15 Strela 45.

So if you want to fight the late Sabres, then use the MiG-17.

 

[clim995]

39 minutes ago, Gepard said:

In game the Sabres are overrated. You can also say the MiG-15bis is underrated. They are not made by the same developer, thatswhy the differences. You may cheat and change the flightmodel of the MiG-15bis to make this plane turn better. Its your decision. Its only a game.

In reality the planes were comparable. The plane with the better pilot on the stick would win the battle. The MiG had a better climb rate and acceleration. At altitudes over 8.000 meters it was able to outturn the Sabre. Below this altitude the advantage of the MiG was gone and as closer you came to earth the Sabre became better. It was a bad tactic to try to outcurve a Sabre in a MiG-15bis. The tactic said in such situation to use the better climb rate and pull up.

You also must know, that the F-86F and later versions are at the same development level as the MiG-17. I dont know why the soviets gave a new type designation to the MiG-17. The most parts of MiG-17 and MiG-15 are the same. Only the wings and the tail section are different. The MiG-17 was developed as MiG-15 Strela 45.

So if you want to fight the late Sabres, then use the MiG-17.

 

Unfortunately, in the 1953 campaign, the MiG-15bis seems to be the top-of-the-line fighter of the Soviet Forces. (I don't know why there aren't any in the Soviet Forces in East Germany since the Wikipedia page says it was introduced in late 1952.) 

it was a low-altitude battle so yeah, a bad choice of tactic on my part. might have to spend more hours familiarizing myself with the MiG-15s and getting the feel of it. for now, I'll just be a bomber interceptor and leave the dogfighting to my wingmen lol. 

and there's also the slightly inaccurate modeling of the aircraft performance like you said. I guess it would be probably extremely hard if not impossible to fully simulate a jet's real-world performance in-game due to limited data so modders have to rely on guesstimation.

Thanks for the insightful answer!

[Dexter249]

2 hours ago, clim995 said:

Unfortunately, in the 1953 campaign, the MiG-15bis seems to be the top-of-the-line fighter of the Soviet Forces. (I don't know why there aren't any in the Soviet Forces in East Germany since the Wikipedia page says it was introduced in late 1952.) 

it was a low-altitude battle so yeah, a bad choice of tactic on my part. might have to spend more hours familiarizing myself with the MiG-15s and getting the feel of it. for now, I'll just be a bomber interceptor and leave the dogfighting to my wingmen lol. 

and there's also the slightly inaccurate modeling of the aircraft performance like you said. I guess it would be probably extremely hard if not impossible to fully simulate a jet's real-world performance in-game due to limited data so modders have to rely on guesstimation.

Thanks for the insightful answer!

Be careful of the Canadair Sabres as well, those are absolutely deadly, they are on par with the MiG-17A (No Afterburner), if not actually better than the 17.

Both the Sabre Mk.4 (RAF), CL-13B/Sabre Mk.6 (Luftwaffe and RCAF) are all equally as deadly, the Mk.6 even more so as it can out turn the F-86F and has Sidewinders.

[bazillius]

Interesting debrif and nice pictures. This game is very old, and you can only level an airplane with an airplane in general terms. Don't judge the game too harshly. It is best to read books about the confrontation between Sabers and MiGs in order to understand which plane is better.

[+Gepard]

Some years ago i found somewhere in the net a report of a RAF pilot, who had flown the Sabre in Korea War.

It was an analysis of the "felt" advantages and disadvantages of the MiG-15 against the Sabre-A (or was it a Sabre-E?)

Unfortunatly i have found only the cover of this report on my harddrive. I don't know where the rest of this report went.

[ilwzwb]

I think the problem might be that you didn't ditch the drop tank

[clim995]

1 hour ago, ilwzwb said:

I think the problem might be that you didn't ditch the drop tank

During dogfights, I swear I always ditch the drop tanks but for some reason, this one did not separate. 

there's even a bug (which I am more than happy to take advantage of) of the earlier MiG-15 having two drop tanks in the same pylon. Whenever I'd jettison, the other one will remain fixed.

I only keep the drop tanks on an interception when the enemy planes are lined up straight and there are not many sharp turns to be done haha.

 

[Trotski]

I find that getting into a turning knife fight with the Bis, is counterproductive, the Mig has an advantage in fire power over the Sabre, so slashing attacks is the way to go, The Americans discovered this pretty early on when trying to dogfight the Zero, and it would generally end badly for the USN pilots, when they did. The Sabre is very agile, the Mig isnt a tree trunk either, however, 2 pilots in a Mig doing a zoom and boom on a Sabre, is liable to spoil the Sabre drivers day some, one 37mm hit is not going to be.......err beneficial. plus the round drop on the 37mm is not great, so you need to be up close and personal, but also not hang around for the Sabre pilot to turn in on you. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by trotski00

[+Crusader]

19 hours ago, Gepard said:

I don't know where the rest of this report went

An online version is web-archived:
The F.86 v The MIG.15 By SQUADRON LEADER W. HARBISON CENTRAL FIGHTER ESTABLISHMENT