Viggen 644 Posted March 1, 2023 Playing NATO Fighters V 1986 campaign, rather bravely I might add, in the Cali ANG F-4C. To my surprise it has no chaff or flares! Would the F-4Cs being flown by the Air National Guard in the 1980s really not have countermeasures? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+daddyairplanes 10,235 Posted March 1, 2023 The C's and D's were pretty much interceptors by then and more likely to be used to defend CONUS than the Fulda Gap. so not so much of a need for countermeasures some D models went to Ramstein at about that timeframe with Montana and North Dakota ANG while the 86th TFW was converting to Vipers. but pretty sure they would have had countermeasures. push come to shove, do in the data.ini what the crew chiefs would have done: jimmy rig something!!!! 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viggen 644 Posted March 1, 2023 Figured as much. Guess it's time to do the Vietnam thing and stuff some chaff into the airbrakes with some ini editing. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+streakeagle 871 Posted March 1, 2023 F-4Ds eventually got the same wing pylons as F-4Es with the countermeasures mounted at the rear. F-4Cs never got those pylons, and hence never got built-in countermeasures. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viggen 644 Posted March 2, 2023 Oh that’s interesting. Definitely explains why! Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ravenclaw_007 7,633 Posted March 2, 2023 mounting the pylons with the AN/ALE-40 is not helping much , you need in the cockpit , front and rear , the AN/ALE-40 control panel and the wiring for it , with out it no chaff and no flares this is the panel in a F-4F rear cockpit there is a F-4C/D flight manual from 1984 - 1990 available at ebay .com , unfortunately they will not ship to germany so i can not buy it , in this manual you should be able to see if there are this control panels or not https://www.ebay.com/itm/221409795156?hash=item338d0d5c54:g:W1AAAOxyeZNTPytq&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoKLirUgBrrwgX44mMW%2BYEGqf3dnuVjbOqUgnWrqZn1dkjevZl%2FcudPuTGTQBZuvND%2FdqtXlZbwblz3PrH%2FWaQTWDjax4vzMx3NaUUCh8hJin7%2BKXj49IFnUvTMgVmcEOftPX8ML%2BQeHqUMfuqfFqxPuacppiBgFr3o2r%2BDWvL6EoNoXwM7yYd0esizV0KgToPajW8mS5HsSzkEr5QZvHxpo%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7KK35jUYQ 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+GKABS 8,772 Posted March 2, 2023 My be this will help https://www.f4phantom.com/docs/F4Manual-1979-T-O-1F-4E-1-Flight-Manual-USAF-Series-F-4E-Aircraft.pdf 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ravenclaw_007 7,633 Posted March 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, GKABS said: My be this will help https://www.f4phantom.com/docs/F4Manual-1979-T-O-1F-4E-1-Flight-Manual-USAF-Series-F-4E-Aircraft.pdf nope that is a F-4E only manual and yes it shows the AN/ALE-40 control panel , i do have almost everything that is available on flight manuals for the F-4E unfortunately i dont have the late flight manuals for the F-4C/D , but maybe in the future i will get them as well i do have a F-4C/D/E flight manual from 1973 and this one does not show the AN/ALE-40 control panel for all this aircraft , for the F-4C/D we should have a flight manual from 1980 up to 1990 to be sure 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+GKABS 8,772 Posted March 2, 2023 How about this one Links to copyrighted material - please do not post these links. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ravenclaw_007 7,633 Posted March 2, 2023 8 hours ago, GKABS said: How about this one good find yes this one shows the AN/ALE-40 panel in the front and rear cockpit for the F-4D but not for the F-4C and it is not mention from what year this cockpit layout is , but it must be from 1980 or later before that there was no AN/ALE-40 panel int the D cockpits Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+streakeagle 871 Posted March 2, 2023 I can assure you that the F-4D got the countermeasures retrofitted toward the late 70s early 80s. They wouldn't have put on the pylons without putting in the panels. The F-4Cs were going out of service, and therefore did not get updgraded. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+streakeagle 871 Posted March 2, 2023 This discussion includes Ed Rasimus and other F-4 pilots describing chaff/flare deployment on F-4s, including clarification on the F-4C and F-4D in the 1970s: F-4 chaff/flare loads (narkive.com) As I originally posted: F-4Cs: never, F-4Ds late 70s/early 80s. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrench 9,846 Posted March 2, 2023 damnit!! that link to pdfdrive is making my anti-virus go nuts!! Keeps blocking me. can anybody send the book to me via private message? I don't have that one in my collection thanks in advance Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+GKABS 8,772 Posted March 2, 2023 48 minutes ago, Wrench said: damnit!! that link to pdfdrive is making my anti-virus go nuts!! Keeps blocking me. can anybody send the book to me via private message? I don't have that one in my collection thanks in advance Sent 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
