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F-4PhantomII

Falling in love with the F-8 Crusader...

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The French f-8E's were tweeked abit. I know that the flaps were improved to help them land on the smaller carrier decks. I have made a copy of the F-8E into the F-8E(RN) version for WOE to play around with, imoroving the flaps and giving proper loadouts. I am having some fun escorting Super Etandardes and landing on the small decks. (HMS Bulwark or Ark Royal is my standin for the Foch or Clemenceau)

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The Crusader had the same engine as the Hun, and it outperformed the Hun in almost everything!

 

bibbolicious, nice skin! What terrain is that?

 

Actually the Engines WERE NOT THE SAME. While the base core was the J-57 from PWA the varients and thrust rating were different with the F-8 having higher thrust verients. It's a common misnomor that just becasue and engine has the same designation at the begining that they are the same for the different varients. In most cases until PWA introduced the module concept in the early 70's only about 50 percent of parts were interchangeable between varients of the same engine family.

And until the F-14,15 and f-16 programs Engine mounts and plumbing connections were often different between engines of not only the same family but builder. With the comon engine bay introduced by these programs this all changed and plumbing setups became standard between airframes and engines.

 

F-100

Varients before the F-100D had the

J-57-P-7 rated at 10,200 dry and 14,800 Wet

F-100D had the p-21A varient that had 10,200 Dry and 16000 Wet

 

F-8A

J-57-P-4

10,400 dry 16,000 wet

F-8E

J-57-P-16 10,700 dry 18,000 Wet

RF-8G

J-57-P-22

10,700 dry 17000 wet

An old Pratt Rat John D-7035 PWA Rocky Hill Ct.

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Just So Kirsten. I often wondered what a newer technology F-8e with upgraded avionics, improved powerplant, new wing and a better gun to match would do for my selfish flight sim needs.

 

 

 

:ph34r: CL

 

Well you could model the F-8U-3 Super Crusader that lost to the F-4. It was a political infighting thing in the Navy that caused the F-4 to be chosen mostly the Missle only attitude and the ATG bomber capbility built in this way the Navy made the penny pinchers who hobbled the TFX program happy.

To damn bad the F-4 was picked The F-8U-3 kicked it's ass all over in everything except carrying bombs and having guns.

 

The F-8U-3 Super Crusader

 

 

One Pratt & Whitney J75-P-5A/6 turbojet, 16,500 lb.s.t. dry,

29,500 lb.s.t. with afterburning.

 

Maximum speed 1457 mph (Mach 2.21) at 50,000 feet, 800 mph (actually brushed Mach 3 in flight testing)

(Mach 1.05) at sea level. Cruising speed 575 mph. Stalling

speed 154 mph. Initial climb rate 32,500 feet.

 

Combat ceiling 51,500 feet, service ceiling 60,000 feet. Combat

range 645 miles.

 

Maximum range 2044 miles. Maximum fuel 2036 US

gallons.

 

Weights: 21,862 pounds empty, 32,318 pounds combat, 37,856

pounds gross, 38,772 pounds maximum takeoff.

 

Dimensions: wingspan 38 feet 11 inches, length 58 feet 8 inches,

height 16 feet 4 inches, wing area 450 square feet.

 

Projected armament was to have been four 20-mm cannon plus three

air-to-air missiles carried in slots cut into each lower side of

the fuselage and on the fuselage belly just behind the forward

landing gear.

Edited by John

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The French f-8E's were tweeked abit. I know that the flaps were improved to help them land on the smaller carrier decks. I have made a copy of the F-8E into the F-8E(RN) version for WOE to play around with, imoroving the flaps and giving proper loadouts. I am having some fun escorting Super Etandardes and landing on the small decks. (HMS Bulwark or Ark Royal is my standin for the Foch or Clemenceau)

 

The "improvement" to the flaps was a Boundry Layer Control system that used air bled from the engine compressor to smooth out the airflow over the flaps at low speeds, thus increasing lift. The same system was installed on the F-8J for the USN. The downside was that by bleeding off air from the compressor, thrust was reduced somewhat.

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Well you could model the F-8U-3 Super Crusader that lost to the F-4. It was a political infighting thing in the Navy that caused the F-4 to be chosen mostly the Missle only attitude and the ATG bomber capbility built in this way the Navy made the penny pinchers who hobbled the TFX program happy.

To damn bad the F-4 was picked The F-8U-3 kicked it's ass all over in everything except carrying bombs and having guns.

 

The F-8U-3 Super Crusader

One Pratt & Whitney J75-P-5A/6 turbojet, 16,500 lb.s.t. dry,

29,500 lb.s.t. with afterburning.

 

Maximum speed 1457 mph (Mach 2.21) at 50,000 feet, 800 mph (actually brushed Mach 3 in flight testing)

(Mach 1.05) at sea level. Cruising speed 575 mph. Stalling

speed 154 mph. Initial climb rate 32,500 feet.

 

Combat ceiling 51,500 feet, service ceiling 60,000 feet. Combat

range 645 miles.

 

Maximum range 2044 miles. Maximum fuel 2036 US

gallons.

 

Weights: 21,862 pounds empty, 32,318 pounds combat, 37,856

pounds gross, 38,772 pounds maximum takeoff.

 

Dimensions: wingspan 38 feet 11 inches, length 58 feet 8 inches,

height 16 feet 4 inches, wing area 450 square feet.

 

Projected armament was to have been four 20-mm cannon plus three

air-to-air missiles carried in slots cut into each lower side of

the fuselage and on the fuselage belly just behind the forward

landing gear.

I also think the Phantoms were a bit faster and were a dual engine design which makes it more attractive then a single engine fighter.

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Sorry Gruppe, I can't resist.

Shamrock 43: 43 42.

Shamrock 42: GO

Shamrock 43: I hear the Navy is working on making an attack version of of our F-8s.

Shamrock 42: BRAVO SIERRA! We are the Navy's Attack F-8s.

V/R all. :ph34r: CL

 

 

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Crusader is one of my favorites too. Saw a real one on board USS Midway (CV-41) in the Bay of San Diego last month. CV-41 is now a floating museum. When you get a chance go and visit. All famous Navy aircraft are aboard: Phantom, Vigilante, Skywarrior, Scooter etc, but for me the F-8 Crusader was the best and in what I think it's most striking color scheme, that of VF-111 'Sundowners' complete with pilot figure and sun-rays helmet. See pics below:

 

post-23135-1176508203_thumb.jpgpost-23135-1176507835_thumb.jpgpost-23135-1176508171_thumb.jpgpost-23135-1176508232_thumb.jpgpost-23135-1176508259_thumb.jpgpost-23135-1176508292_thumb.jpg

 

(Last pic shows CVN-68 Nimitz in the background moored at the naval base on Coronado Peninsula)

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Wow, my squadron flew off the Midway in the mid 80s. We were home ported in Yokosuka Japan. Before that we were homeported at North Island where the carriers dock still. While homeported there we flew off of the Coral Sea ( sister ship ). I forget which carrier but we did bump out a Marine RF-8 squadron for thier space. LZ your post wraps alot of my gig together. This is the best picture of North Island I have.

 

 

 

:ph34r: CL

 

 

Edited by charlielima

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hmm you guys really fell in love with this 60's old timer, huh?

 

yeah seeing an f-8 reminds me of area 88. too bad he was shot down in it( his(shin's) mechanic had noticed a problem with his engines and still let him takeoff)

and he ended up with an f-5, dunno what you guys think of the f-5, but i am not too sure cuz my (philippines') air forces' fronltiners are f-5's

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hmm you guys really fell in love with this 60's old timer, huh?

 

yeah seeing an f-8 reminds me of area 88. too bad he was shot down in it( his(shin's) mechanic had noticed a problem with his engines and still let him takeoff)

and he ended up with an f-5, dunno what you guys think of the f-5, but i am not too sure cuz my (philippines') air forces' fronltiners are f-5's

Tigers are great airplanes. My Grandfather wored for Northop on that Project, that na d the F-20 Tigershark.

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Maybe one of the modguru's (all respect for them, because they give me things I cannot dream of doing myself....)

could try out the Crusader FGR 1 of the Royal Navy as it was offered as an alternative for the Phantoms that were orderend eventually....

Different flap- and slat settings, the lighter and more powerfull Spey turbofan, maybe another radar with BVR missile capability and some A2G possibilities......

We already have wonderfull RN Tomcats and Corsairs, so why not a Cusader.........

 

Aju,

 

Derk :wink:

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I've loved the F-8 since Janes USNF 97...

 

Around that time I randomly picked up a book at the library called "Over the Beach" about a squadron of F-8s flying off the USS Oriskany during Vietnam and I've liked the plane ever since... Great book... I seem to remember it having an A-4 on the cover though :rofl: .

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I've loved the F-8 since Janes USNF 97...

 

Around that time I randomly picked up a book at the library called "Over the Beach" about a squadron of F-8s flying off the USS Oriskany during Vietnam and I've liked the plane ever since... Great book... I seem to remember it having an A-4 on the cover though :rofl: .

 

Over the Beach is an excellent book, I read about three times. Dick Bellinger was my favorite character in this book. He seemed to be a wild man. Another excellent read is "Phantom over Vietnam", John Trotti, he puts you right in the cockpit during some of his missions. My hat is off to the USMC aviators that always seemed to be at the bottom of the parts distro list in the Phantom community. Things that would have deadlined USAF Phantoms were just par for the course for Mr Trotti's squadron, VMF-314!

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Wow, my squadron flew off the Midway in the mid 80s. We were home ported in Yokosuka Japan.

 

me too, but we didn't have Crusaders then.

 

what squadron?

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Modeling an F8U3 Super Crud might be too ambitious. An F8J or FGR 1 flight model packed in the F8E carcass sounds like the way to go to me. :ph34r: CL

 

 

 

HS-12 Typhoid!

Edited by charlielima

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What really amazes me about the F-8, although that has actually not something do with the F-8 itself, are the additional stock Squadron decals that come with the game (WOV that is), but aren't put to use, since most Squadron in the Campaigns have coverted to the F-4 already.

 

Is that some sort of leftover from SFP or why are they in it?

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The F-8 has one real advantage over a Phantom.

 

When you miss with all your missles at least you have guns to keep trying with!

 

 

but the crud's guns had a bad draw back..

 

i would fail upon increase of g's.

i dunno at what g it starts to fail,

an i dunno why.

but i heard that the gun's achille's heel is in g foces.

 

 

but in other virtues of the planes,

 

it flies like no other.

 

it definitely flies bettter than tha dandy little f-5.

 

f-5 bleeds to much airspeed in too little time.

Edited by Shin_kazama

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but the crud's guns had a bad draw back..

 

i would fail upon increase of g's.

i dunno at what g it starts to fail,

an i dunno why.

but i heard that the gun's achille's heel is in g foces.

 

A more persistent problem was that the cartridges could be jammed in the cannon feeds by high-gee maneuvers, and in addition such maneuvers could also deplete the pneumatic air supply that drove the feed mechanism. There was never really a fix for these two problems. (http://www.vectorsite.net/avcrus_2.html)

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but the crud's guns had a bad draw back..

 

i would fail upon increase of g's.

i dunno at what g it starts to fail,

an i dunno why.

but i heard that the gun's achille's heel is in g foces.

but in other virtues of the planes,

 

it flies like no other.

 

it definitely flies bettter than tha dandy little f-5.

 

f-5 bleeds to much airspeed in too little time.

 

I have to admit to never doing a campaign with the F-8. I'm primarily a USAF Thud driver. However, i have used the Crusader in practice setups and i really have grown fond of it. For your info, just every gun kill i've gotten was within 7-8 o clock high or low. I always try as much as possible for the closest i can get for the classic 0 degree shot off the tail.

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I've always had a fondness for the F-8, but I as well have been mostly flying the Thud along with the A-4 on the deck in WOV just to evade the SAMs (and taking my chances with the AA). Every time I try a campaign with the F-8 or F-4 it ends up being a short one, and that's even with the speech mod added to warn me when a SAM is coming for me.

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I've always had a fondness for the F-8, but I as well have been mostly flying the Thud along with the A-4 on the deck in WOV just to evade the SAMs (and taking my chances with the AA). Every time I try a campaign with the F-8 or F-4 it ends up being a short one, and that's even with the speech mod added to warn me when a SAM is coming for me.

 

Isn't it something to be killed quickly while flying in roles that actually lessen your chances of exposure to enemy fire?

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I've always had a fondness for the F-8, but I as well have been mostly flying the Thud along with the A-4 on the deck in WOV just to evade the SAMs (and taking my chances with the AA). Every time I try a campaign with the F-8 or F-4 it ends up being a short one, and that's even with the speech mod added to warn me when a SAM is coming for me.

 

 

i got the very same problem about sams too.

 

only way?

 

drop to the deck fast and pray you dont hit the dirt.

 

 

i was about to knock an anti aircraft battery once,

 

and you know what happened?

 

i got so low, that when the launchers launched their missiles, it took them out.

 

yup all 4 or 3 of them.

 

then i got about popping the "zoos".

 

then on to my air target of mig-21 and 23's which were dispatched with the proper use of sidewinders and guns.

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i got the very same problem about sams too.

 

only way?

 

drop to the deck fast and pray you dont hit the dirt.

i was about to knock an anti aircraft battery once,

 

and you know what happened?

 

i got so low, that when the launchers launched their missiles, it took them out.

 

yup all 4 or 3 of them.

 

then i got about popping the "zoos".

 

then on to my air target of mig-21 and 23's which were dispatched with the proper use of sidewinders and guns.

 

 

I disagree, to an extent.

 

Heading for the deck is an easy way to avoid SAMs but you are living on borrowed time the longer you stay there. Low level AAA is ferocius in some area and it WILL shoot you down. Believe me, anything under 2000 ft in certain areas is going to attract a lot of 14.5 and 23mm fire. If you go down there you better climb as quickly as possible after breaking lock.

 

Knowing where and how far away a SAM site is away from you is key for survival. If you know where they are coming from you can actually have quite some time to manuver before they arrive. If you can get them at 12 o clock, dive hard and when they are close, pull up hard and roll the aircraft.

 

SAMs can't make that manuver!

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I disagree, to an extent.

 

Heading for the deck is an easy way to avoid SAMs but you are living on borrowed time the longer you stay there. Low level AAA is ferocius in some area and it WILL shoot you down. Believe me, anything under 2000 ft in certain areas is going to attract a lot of 14.5 and 23mm fire. If you go down there you better climb as quickly as possible after breaking lock.

 

Knowing where and how far away a SAM site is away from you is key for survival. If you know where they are coming from you can actually have quite some time to manuver before they arrive. If you can get them at 12 o clock, dive hard and when they are close, pull up hard and roll the aircraft.

 

SAMs can't make that manuver!

 

Yeah you can turn and beam the sams, but why, half the fun of a mission is running the gauntlet of AAA and Flak. I find the pop ups and rolling dives are the best when dealing with SAMs. Personally I like to take my crusader (thud, or recon viggie) as low as I can get it. I cruise at med to high alt until I get about 15 mi out from town. I usually just break when the sites around the DMZ take a few pot shots at me, but once I get up to the 20th parallel its balls to the wall and my belly scrapping the dirt all of the way. I pop up to about 5k when I get within range I level off. Then I either dive on the target (with rockets or bombs), or stay level and take my photos, then its back to the reeds till I get back to sea or over Laos. No sam can touch me, no mig can keep up, and I laugh in the face of flak burst.

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