F/A-18F Super Hornet

[+Gocad 26]

India

 

Indian pilots supposedly call their Mig-21 flying coffins...that doesn't sound like they have a lot of confidence in their jets.

IMHO the Mig 21 is an outdated design, no matter how much new stuff one tries to stuff in it. It only remains in use because their operators cannot afford anything better at the moment.

 

 

Anyways, an update regarding the current status of the SuperBug would be nice.

Edited June 8, 2007 by Gocad

[+Dave 2,322]

Well having done exercises against them for COPE INDIA. They are damn good pilots. They fly often, and train hard. So I wouldn't sell them so short eraser.

[Shashman 0]

All you have to do, to get a glimpse of the state of Indian AF pilot training standards, is take a look at the attrition section of Airforces Monthly magazine. I guarantee you that in every issue, you'll find at least 2 Indian AF Mig-21 crashes, fatal most of the time.

[+Gocad 26]

All you have to do, to get a glimpse of the state of Indian AF pilot training standards, is take a look at the attrition section of Airforces Monthly magazine. I guarantee you that in every issue, you'll find at least 2 Indian AF Mig-21 crashes, fatal most of the time.

 

I'm no sure whether this has so much to do with their training standards, but rather with the planes they are flying.

I haven't heard much of Indian Su-30 or MIG-29 crashes...

[+EricJ 4,249]

I've seen a series about the MKI pilots, and the level of training is on par with US training, so to say that a MIG-21 could splash a SuperBug is just semantics, without looking at the capabilities.

 

SuperBug: Newer, more reliable, and can carry a higher amount of weapons, vs. the MIG-21-93s, even with R-77s, can carry only two. The SH can carry up to twelve AMRAAMs. It can just do more, and far more maneuverable, and has improved close combat capabilities with the newer AIM-9X and JHMCS. The MIG just doesn't have the cockpit visibility, even when going up against the E SH.

 

MIG-21-93: It's great because it's updated with Israeli electronics from Elbit, as well as other countries. That's it, it's updated. The concept has been around since the beginning of the Cold War. Even with wing tanks, the operational range is shorter, and the radar isn't on par with the Super Hornets. As said, it's old and still around because nobody can probably afford something like, the Gripen.

[Atreides 144]

Going by their tech support, I wouldn't put much faith in their pilots

 

 

Well, the IAF did humble your F-15C's quite well in COPE INDIA.

[+ghostrider883 526]

Indian pilots supposedly call their Mig-21 flying coffins...that doesn't sound like they have a lot of confidence in their jets.

 

Get your facts right. It was a term coined by the dumb print and electronic media of our country and not Indian pilots.

Indian pilots still love and respect the aircraft as it is the aircraft that serves as the supersonic jet trainer before pilots get transferred to other fighter sqdns.

Read the article linked in my sig.

[airvee001 0]

Well, the IAF did humble your F-15C's quite well in COPE INDIA.

 

 

Keep that in mind, Americans are players and they know what they do and why.

[+ghostrider883 526]

All you have to do, to get a glimpse of the state of Indian AF pilot training standards, is take a look at the attrition section of Airforces Monthly magazine. I guarantee you that in every issue, you'll find at least 2 Indian AF Mig-21 crashes, fatal most of the time.

 

BS. The crash rates of MiG-21s have come down drastically. They are not high as before. Elderly MiG-21s(FL/M/MF) are still flying but are slowly being phased out. The trouble is that the media tends to repor other MiG series crashes as MiG-21 crash.

Edited June 9, 2007 by ghostrider883

[+ghostrider883 526]

Going by their tech support, I wouldn't put much faith in their pilots

May be that's the reason why UK,US, French,Singapore air forces wanted to fly their jets against the MKI in joint exercises !!!!! Think before your post!!!! In case you didn't know ,it was the MiG-21 Bison's performance that left the American F-15 pilots shell shocked at Cope India 04. What they were expecting was an Iraqi type easy MiG-21 meat, but they were in for a huge shock when they went up against the Bison.

Our Jaguars went round the world to Alaska and won laurels for their flying and leadership skills. Now our MKIs are going to UK for joint exercises and have been invited to UK's Air Tattoo show. Our Air Force is growing and earning respect all over the world and its pitiful and ignorant of you to make such comments.

Edited June 9, 2007 by ghostrider883

[Guest Saganuay82]

OK this thread is about the Superbug and Marcelos model. Lets try to keep it on track. Perhaps better to start a new thread regarding the IAF and COPE India.

[Shashman 0]

May be that's the reason why UK,US, French,Singapore air forces wanted to fly their jets against the MKI in joint exercises !!!!! Think before your post!!!! In case you didn't know ,it was the MiG-21 Bison's performance that left the American F-15 pilots shell shocked at Cope India 04. What they were expecting was an Iraqi type easy MiG-21 meat, but they were in for a huge shock when they went up against the Bison.

Our Jaguars went to round the world to Alaska and won laurels for their flying and leadership skills. Now our MKIs are going to UK for joint exercises and have been invited to UK's Air Tattoo show. Our Air Force is growing and earning respect all over the world and its pitiful and ignorant of you to make such comments.

 

The Jaguars will be attending this year's RIAT as part of the IAF's 75th anniversary celebrations, not because they're so amazing that there is a demand all over the world to see them

 

Oh and I would hardly call Airforces Monthly, "the media". This month's edition's Indian attrition :

 

April 1st - Mig-23. Crashed into paddy fields. "The pilot, Flt.Lt Nikhil Gupta ejected safely after being unable to lower the undercarriage..."

 

April 5th - Harrier T.60 (Indian Navy). "Crashed into the Arabian Sea after a training sortie off the coast of Goa at 0850hrs, whilst on approach from the Western side to its base at Goa/Dabolim."

 

April 11th - Cheetah. "Later found to have crashed near the Amar helipad in the central Siachen Glacier, Jammu and Kashmir..."

[+ghostrider883 526]

April 1st - Mig-23. Crashed into paddy fields. "The pilot, Flt.Lt Nikhil Gupta ejected safely after being unable to lower the undercarriage..."

 

07 Jul 03 MiG-23BN FGA Flt Lt Nikhil Gupta Cr 1128 - from Halwara - Pt Ej

MiG crash: failure of landing gear suspected

Ferozepore, July 8 : A major tragedy was averted by sheer providence yesterday when the MiG-23BN combat aircraft, which took off from the Halwara air force station, crashed into paddy fields near Mahianwala Kalan village barely at a stones throw from a cooperative mill and a private school. Had the aircraft crashed a few more hundred metres away, it would have caused loss of human life.

. Just couldn't stop laughing after verifying this. Time Travel!!!!!!!

The lone MiG-23BN sqdn's last known crash was in 2004. Last known MiG-23MF crash was in 2002.

April Fool's day. No such crash occured. Only losses in April were a Sea Harrier T.Mk.60 and a Cheetah helicopter.

 

I know that IAF's participation in RIAT is a part of IAF's 75th anniversary celbrations and ts the MKI that will be attending RIAT and not Jaguars!!!!!

 

For the two Su-30MKI Flankers, supported by an air refueling IL-78 tanker, their appearance at the Air Tattoo at RAF Fairford in Gloucestershire on July 14-15 will be part of the ongoing celebrations to mark the Indian Air Force's 75th anniversary.

 

Air Tattoo director Tim Prince said he was delighted and honoured to have the Indian Air Force take part in this summer's Air Tattoo. "We were fortunate that the date scheduled for the joint exercise coincided with the Air Tattoo. Whilst we are hugely grateful for the continuous support of all the air arms that take part each year, it is the rare and exotic aircraft that are the lifeblood of the Air Tattoo. It is what sets us apart from many other air-shows.

so much for theMKI not being in demand

Edited June 9, 2007 by ghostrider883

[eraser_tr 29]

I'll take your words for it about skilled pilots.

 

So just how did the mig-21's manage to get anywhere near an F-15?

[+Dave 2,322]

Atreides

 

1. The COPE India SU-30 vs F-15C engagements were set up with very strict ROE's. The F-15C's were playing bad guys using bad guys rules and tactics. There were not flying US doctrine at all. Something many articles about the engagements left out. In fact all of them left that out.

2. The Mig-21 is on par with the F-104 in safety. However the updated versions the IAF uses are by far the best of the 21 series ever and safer than before.

3. The IAF training standards are outstanding and very much on par with the US in both training regime and flight hours.

 

I am glad they are our allies. Met many pilots of the IAF, great bunch of guys.

[eraser_tr 29]

I'd have liked to see how they would have done using our doctrine against sukhoi's....just might dispell their eagle killer nickname.

[+ghostrider883 526]

So just how did the mig-21's manage to get anywhere near an F-15?

 

The MiG-21 Bison isn't called a tough Son of a Bis for nothing !!!!

The Bisons with their Kopyo Radars were able to lock on and simulate launch of long range R-77 and R-27s much before the F-15s could locate the MiGs on its radar. RAM coating has been applied on many IAF fighters as well.

Edited June 10, 2007 by ghostrider883

[Atreides 144]

I'd have liked to see how they would have done using our doctrine against sukhoi's....just might dispell their eagle killer nickname.

 

Really ? Even though the Canard equipped, thrust vectoring MKI can pull manuever's that the Eagle can't possibly match ? wow ! The F-15 can't even pull the high AoA that the MKI can. As much as I'm going to be despised for saying this, the bird's getting old, airframe wise :tomato2: , (like the old MIG-21 Bison) you can cram it with state of the art electronic's but when it's come's to dogfighting it certainly isn't the top dog anymore. Now an engagment between a Raport and the MKI, that would be interesting.

[JediMaster 451]

If an F-15 is dogfighting it's already made SEVERAL mistakes. It wasn't designed to be a dogfighter, it's an interceptor that happens to be very good at dogfighting. There are many planes that can out dogfight it.

True F-15 tactics would kill the bandits before they got that close.

[Atreides 144]

Likewise for almost any multi-role modern aircraft.

[+Dave 2,322]

If an F-15 is dogfighting it's already made SEVERAL mistakes. It wasn't designed to be a dogfighter, it's an interceptor that happens to be very good at dogfighting. There are many planes that can out dogfight it.

True F-15 tactics would kill the bandits before they got that close.

 

Sorry JM to disagree with you but it was designed as an Air Superiority fighter not an interceptor, the pilots who MD talked to (many from the F-4 community) made sure none of the mistakes of the past were not repeated. It is a dogfighter for sure, ask the Israeli's. The design was made so it could dogfight in addition to intercept. It was designed to defeat any air threat at both long and short range. I got DVD's, books, you name it that say the same thing. It truly defines the term Air Superiority. The interceptor part is a bonus.

 

Atreides

 

Hmm if it can't do a high AOA the I sure would like to know how the pilot from Eglin AFB in the airshow yesterday at Tinker AFB was doing with it. I guess no one told him. Yes the Su-30 can do some good stuff, however those things it can do are nothing more that airshow stunts. When you got missiles like the AIM-9X, and the Python 4 in service that can maneuver with you then those moves become moot. In a knife fight with the HMS and a 60 to 75 degree off boresite shot with one of those missiles, no amount of great acrobatics is going to save your ass.

[+Jarhead1 27]

I must agree, look at the F-4, it was designed as an interceptor but worked out ok as a fighter, after they learned some tricks like departing it to come back over the top and onto the six of ur opponet, so just because its designed as an interceptor, it can work as a fighter as well, except the MiG-25, but thats a whole different animal

[Guest Saganuay82]

Thread is about the Super Bug. Back on track please. IAF MiGs and eagle talk in their own thread.

 

Thanks.

[+ghostrider883 526]

Yes the Su-30 can do some good stuff, however those things it can do are nothing more that airshow stunts.

 

Really? Ask IAF Fulcrum pilots.

The MiG-29s were made to look silly when the bigger,heavier MKIs repeatedly and easily out manuevered the lighter Fulcrum using TVC. Before the Fulcrum could do anything, the MKI was on the MiG-29's tail

[+Crusader 2,101]

Marcfighter.... quick..post a Super Hornet pic so that all see what this thead is about LOL

 

:D