Some A-6 questions

[+Crusader]

my A-6 can mount gunpods on the inner pylons.... :D

 

'cause its cool :D

 

 

edit: added the smilie

Edited April 21, 2007 by Crusader

[column5]

It was a just a subject of discussion.

 

Yeah, and a good one. I have personally been intrigued by the idea of Sidewinders on the A-6 since I got the Warbird Tech volume which is the first time I saw it listed on a loadout sheet. Since then I've been looking for evidence.

[+Dave]

Yeah, and a good one. I have personally been intrigued by the idea of Sidewinders on the A-6 since I got the Warbird Tech volume which is the first time I saw it listed on a loadout sheet. Since then I've been looking for evidence.

 

I can say this, had they put it in practice more I bet you a lot of adversaries would of considered not messing with it.

[Southernap]

The A-6 was never designed to be a strike fighter, however when it came out and the Sidewinder was (is) and incredible simple missile to wire into an aircraft. So the capability was installed. Talking to some family friends that flew during Vietnam and during the height of the Cold war, they told me that once during in the training squadron the missile was uploaded and the crew practiced the switchology to turn on the thing. The only other time that an A-6 crew might see the Sidewinder uploaded was during an strike event if the crew went to NAS Fallon for Strike U (the mud movers verison of Top Gun). Again the thought was if the A-6 had to fly beyond range of the F-14's they might be given a sporting chance. Yet this one Bombardier/Navigator told me it was about as sporting as to put 6x6 truck on a quarter mile track with a Ferrari. The only way the truck might have won was if the Ferrari keeled over dead from laughing too hard, same thing if the A-6 actually faced real fighters like the MiG-19 or MiG-17. Most of the time the crew was trained to dive for the deck, through the throttles to the firewalls, and scream over the tactical radio for fighter support.

That being said most of the time Carrier Air Wings practiced through out even up to now an over reaching Alpha strike. So if the bombers did have to go downtown some place (whether that was Hanoi or the Kola Peninsula) there would of been F-4's or F-14's running interference, EA-6B's doing Offensive jamming and either A-7's or F-18's running as Iron Hands taking out the SAM's and AAA.

[FOTF]

Excellent info, Southernap

 

And great to see another local around these parts!

 

You up at the NAS?

[+allenjb42]

I have some info, admittedly from a book rather than from anecdotal evidence from a participant that during the Libya confrontation in 1986 A-6Es carried Harpoons inboard and sidewinders outboard to take out Libyan missile boats. Lou Drendel's A-6 Intruder book has an illustration of this loadout, and Wrench used it as the Loading screen for the A-6E SWIP.

 

Also, some A-6Es carried Shrikes outboard and Mk7s on MERs inboard, but I'm not sure if this was for SAM suppression or for anti-ship work too, as they hit some of the missile boats with Harpoons and some with CBUs

[+Dave]

I have some info, admittedly from a book rather than from anecdotal evidence from a participant that during the Libya confrontation in 1986 A-6Es carried Harpoons inboard and sidewinders outboard to take out Libyan missile boats. Lou Drendel's A-6 Intruder book has an illustration of this loadout, and Wrench used it as the Loading screen for the A-6E SWIP.

 

Also, some A-6Es carried Shrikes outboard and Mk7s on MERs inboard, but I'm not sure if this was for SAM suppression or for anti-ship work too, as they hit some of the missile boats with Harpoons and some with CBUs

 

I want to see a real pic of an A-6 with a sidewinder loaded up. I looked every where with no luck, anyone else.

[+Typhoid]

"as they hit some of the missile boats with Harpoons "

 

one of my shipmates did that. but I have no idea if he also carried a 'winder.

[HrntFixr]

Guy's I spent many a year around A-6's in the fleet and I never saw a sidewinder loaded.

I'm not saying they didn't try it at a test facility, but in the 15+ years I did in tailhooks i never saw one loaded.

 

Intruder pilots had big brass ones but even they wouldn't tangle A2A in the "whistlin sh**can"

[+Dave]

There you have it folks straight from a carrier deck vet himself.

[Southernap]

I have some info, admittedly from a book rather than from anecdotal evidence from a participant that during the Libya confrontation in 1986 A-6Es carried Harpoons inboard and sidewinders outboard to take out Libyan missile boats. Lou Drendel's A-6 Intruder book has an illustration of this loadout, and Wrench used it as the Loading screen for the A-6E SWIP.

 

Also, some A-6Es carried Shrikes outboard and Mk7s on MERs inboard, but I'm not sure if this was for SAM suppression or for anti-ship work too, as they hit some of the missile boats with Harpoons and some with CBUs

 

My father was with VA-55 during the Libyan operations in 1985 and 1986. Asking him he states for a fact that none of the VA-55 aircraft were loaded with Sidewinders. The two strikes that Warhorse flew against the Libyan patrols boats were armed with a then typical loadout for the Mediterranean sea Surface Combat Air Patrol (SuCAP) of 12 Mk20 Rockeyes and Harpoon or 12 Mk20 Rockeyes and a pair of 300gal drop tanks. There was no need for either VA-55 (who was onboard the USS Coral Sea with CVW-13), VA-85 (who was onboard the USS Saratoga with CVW-17 during the March 1985 portion) and VA-34 (who was onboard USS America with CVW-1) to carry sidewinders. Considering that there was at the time both the USS Saratoga and the America were on station at the "Line of Death" there was 48 F-14's ready to go and 36 F-18A's onboard the USS Coral Sea ready to go (CVW-13 was the first Atlantic based air wing to deploy with F-18's). That is a large number of fighters that were ready to tangle with the best that Russians and Libyans could have possibly put up.

 

Poking around on the Internet this is the only shot that I could find of a Real A-6 carrying a Sidewinder. But if you look closely you can see that it along with the rest of the ordnance is a training round, or blue death. More then likely this was shot at NAS Fallon for a Naval Strike Warfare Center training event.

[+Dave]

Ladies and gentleman of the jury I respectfully submit from not one but 2 carrier vets.........that sidewinders were not INDEED common practice and should not be put on this pure A2G machine. Sir, the defense rests.....

[EricJ]

Yeah, God forbid that Attack Pukes don't need to depend on Fighter Jocks, next!

[JediMaster]

Does this mean no afterburners or GAU-8 either???

[EricJ]

You'd only be so lucky given the Court of USAFMTL. You'd be lucky to get a cup holder

[charlielima]

Bravo Zulu Flanker! And same to USAFMTL for sticking to your guns. A "B" would be most bitchin' for us cement heads stuck in the WOV time period. :ph34r: CL

 

 

[EricJ]

Got your couble post man, no worries

[charlielima]

Does this mean I get an A6B? :ph34r: CL

 

 

[+drdoyo]

And where are the Mythbusters? LOL

 

 

Jamie: Well, There is a photo.

Adam: But Jamie, it's just a training round

Jamie: The audiance needs a decision here

Adam: Well, Ok it's PLAUSABLE, but not prooven

[+Dave]

And where are the Mythbusters? LOL

Jamie: Well, There is a photo.

Adam: But Jamie, it's just a training round

Jamie: The audiance needs a decision here

Adam: Well, Ok it's PLAUSABLE, but not prooven

 

LOL so very true!

[+allenjb42]

Damn Dave, you're giving my wife all the ammo she needs to get me to ebay my aviation library!

 

I suppose this entry in World Sir Power Journal US Navy & Marine Corps Air Power Directory (1992) isn't worth the paper it's written on? Check out the first entry in the anti ship loadouts.

 

 

But wait! I found this in WAPJ volume 18 (Autumn/Fall 1994) - An A-6E at Red Flag carrying a Sidewinder training round

 

The game is still on!

Edited April 24, 2007 by allenjb42

[EricJ]

Yeap, though USAFMTL would want to challenge the "Libya" date. Sure it's probably when we blew up Quadaffi's house but hey, it's The Court of USAFMTL.

[+Dave]

Allen, I never said it couldn't or doesn't, I said it was not common practice. And some carrier deck crews confirmed it. Again I am going to listen to crews more than any book. I can point out volumes of information that is incorrect in Janes books that I got from crews themselves. This has nothing to do with whether you are going to add it or not to the mod.

 

 

Damn Dave, you're giving my wife all the ammo she needs to get me to ebay my aviation library!

 

Shhh don't tell her is all part of our master plan......

[+drdoyo]

Hey Allen, on your ordnance chart there, notice the inbd pylon loads. There is never a 3 or 6 listed. That supports what my roommate said about the gear door clearances. The front inbd position of the MER and inbd position on the TER were left empty.

 

I'd say you have enough info to make your own court about a modification. People don't have to use it if they don't want to. That's the bottom line. The only thing stopping you would be the need (or not?) for permissions to upload it.

 

I've spent most of my time in the sim flying the "Operation Final Dawn 2007" campaign (first campaign finished was a VF-103 campaign which I modded to suit my taste to fly a more accurate rendidion of the F-14 than the uberloaded one that came in the campaign download). I've spent a little time flying the Talon. If it gets released I'll probably go for a spin or two in the Firefox. None of this is real. Though a realist to an extent I'm not that much of a realist to exclude certain aspects such as these. I long ago modded my A-6E's data.ini to carry 2 AIM-9s. That's my choice, based on the info I got from a retired Marine Capt. that I room with, and have flown with at my airline job. He's now a Captain on the EMB-120. I'm a First Officer on the Be-1900D with over 2100 hours in type.

 

I can draw the line though. I don't download what I don't want. I removed SFP1 (sp4) from my computer for 2 reasons.

#1 I needed to free space and I have WOV and 2 installations of WOE (1 with OFD 2007, and 1 with OTC)

#2 Even with sp4, SFP1's flight engine felt wrong. I've flown 5 different airplanes, and none of them had anywhere near the roll inertia that SFP1 had consistantly throughout all aircraft in the game. Thinking of IL-2, I have yet to see a game that modeles the constant speed propellar correctly. I won't shelf IL-2, or MSFS for this, but it is annoying to me, and I've learned to live with that for lack of an accurate substitution. Again all my choice.

 

All I'm saying is if permissions are needed for upload, so be it. If not, do it and let those who wish to include it in their game do so, those that don't....dont!

 

And on the next day, we'll all get along.

.........Man, did you ever open a can of worms with this!

[+allenjb42]

Well it's got to be the most interesting debate I've seen on the boards for a while, and it's great to get the input from the guys who have experienced the real deal.

 

I'm waiting on permission to include some skins in the package, and then I'll upload the modded A-6E SWIP and USMC, hopefully this weekend, with the other versions soon after.

 

Will I give it Sidewinder capability? You'll just have to download it and see!