Your thoughts

[+Dave 2,322]

http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?...662#Post2367662

 

 

If the link doesn't work here is what was going on. This was posted in the SimHq Community Hall and the name of the post is:

 

US military vets (past/present) - Advice needed (as opposed to condemnation)

 

Razorback posted this

 

A friend of mine is looking to enter the military for some college money and needs advice about what would be the best branch of the service to enter. He is thinking Army Reserves (he does not want to go active) but I think he will likely get activated if he goes that route.

 

He wants to learn some practical skills for the real world while also being able to go to college via the GI Bill (or whatever they are calling it).

 

So, any help would be appreciated:

 

Air Force

Navy

Army

Marines

National Guard

 

It would also help if anyone could offer up what kind of training and schedule he should expect.

 

I know this is a lot to ask but anything would be useful in helping him make the best choice... he wants to avoid service in Iraq/Afghanistan if at all possible.

 

Thanks.

 

 

I replied

 

RB

 

The mere fact that he wants to "avoid service in Iraq/Afghanistan if at all possible" I find not only offensive, I find it cowardly. This guys wants the cash but doesn't want to do what it takes to earn it or the responsibility that comes with wearing the uniform. Here is my advice from me with 16 years in the USAF....tell him not to join until he can accept that with wearing the uniform comes sacrifi

 

Well then as usual RB came back with his usual quips etc, but that's not the issue. The issue is what do you think of his friend or anyone wanting ot join but not wanting to take the responsibilities that go with it.

[column5 63]

Seems absurd to want to join the military but avoid combat duty. Like if someone joined the Army during Vietnam and then tried to avoid getting sent there.

 

I've never been in the military but this sounds to me like the type of person one would not want next to one's self in a foxhole...

[column5 63]

Oh, and since I just read the SimHQ thread. That Razorback guy is a dips**t. Your advice was based 16 years of experience and the wisdom taht comes withit--don't sweat the weasel dicks.

[DaSpungie 1]

ya thats the "catch"

 

kinda cake and eat it

 

well I have 3 cousins that join the marines and each did their tour and went on to take the higher education that was offered

one is going JAG the other is going to be a minister for the troops and last i head the other was going for teacher

now these are Canadain born guys

 

from a family that has no military tradition other than on grampa and their uncle "my dad" ever being in the army.

but they have lived in new york and that area for the last 10-15 years .And wanted to do their part for the country

so his pal may as well come up to canada and join the peace corps or the liberal party or ndp

they always need more followers

[+Crab_02 8]

I see the thread was locked.

 

sooner or later the lad will deploy - maybe not into a combat zone persay - ie getting shot at - but still deployed.

 

fewer then let's say 'bout 25% deployed in either operation are going 'into harms way' or outside the wire.

 

a mortar round could hit the hooch while in the shower... or you could be run over by a truck while changing a tire on the side of the road.

 

'harms way' needs to be defined.

 

Hell, you make buku money deployed... duh.

[+Dave 2,322]

I mean if you are going to join the miltary.....you can kind of expect something to happen. That is the nature of it. I would of gladly given him advice had that statement not been in there. I stick to what I said though. Its cowardly IMHO.

[Grosse Hosen 0]

SORRY MR BIG PANTS USAFBLT DAN I AM NOT UNDERSTAND THIS RAAZORBACK MAN. I THINKS HE IS A VER SMALL PANTS MAN IF YUO KNOW WHAT I MEAN FOR EXAMPLE HE ONLY NEEDS TEH SMALL PANTS BECASE HE HAS SMALL PEENICE.

[tank03 1]

It's like a garbageman that complains about the smell of the trash. Being in the military is a job. No matter the branch, the job is to either fight, or prepare to fight. If you don't recognise that then you're probably too dim for the military anyway. Let's be honest, this guy doesn't want to join out of some sense of duty, he want to join so he can get his tuition paid.

 

I don't blame anyone for not wanting to be in a war zone, it's basic human nature to want to avoid injury and hardship, but don't expect to get the benefit if you aren't going to make the FULL commitment. That just makes you a leach, and I'd rather my tax dollars go to helping the guy who put his ass on the line and fully recognised the nature of his service, rather than some dipsh*t looking for a free ride to school.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

I mean if you are going to join the miltary.....you can kind of expect something to happen. That is the nature of it. I would of gladly given him advice had that statement not been in there. I stick to what I said though. Its cowardly IMHO.

 

I don't think it's cowardly per se, but it's definitely naive. I'm in the process of joining the ADF as we speak, and I have to say, I joined for similar reasons. The ADF are getting desperate for personnel (they'd have to be if I'm joining ) . They're keen to provide training and skills, things that'll be recognised in the private sector if or when I choose to leave. And they're quite flexible and it just seems like a really good opportunity so I don't want to pass it up.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not using this as a springboard into the private sector. It just seems like a great opportunity to gain some invaluable experience. I mean, I do love my country, but I'm not patriotic at all. It's a chance at a new career. I'm not the kinda person who's keen to jump off into the next combat zone and get shot at, but the fact is that it's part of the job. As is deploying, training and other things that may take me away from my home town... something that my gf is very much not cool with. But it's something I think I'd volunteer for in time, but not right away since my lack of training would probably mean I'll just be underfoot. But yeah... to join the military but not want to go is not uncommon, but to join and expect to not go anywhere is just kinda stupid...

[MiGMasher 0]

Firstly no one really wants to go to war.

 

However as some people had said here already, it is the nature of the beast that when you join up, and the time comes, you go do your duty.

 

People like that kid don't surprise me at all. Milking the system in any which way you can is not a new phenomenon.

 

You were right, USAFMTL, in telling RB to advise that boy not to join up. He is a coward.

[MiGMasher 0]

I don't think it's cowardly per se, but it's definitely naive. I'm in the process of joining the ADF as we speak, and I have to say, I joined for similar reasons. The ADF are getting desperate for personnel (they'd have to be if I'm joining ) . They're keen to provide training and skills, things that'll be recognised in the private sector if or when I choose to leave. And they're quite flexible and it just seems like a really good opportunity so I don't want to pass it up.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not using this as a springboard into the private sector. It just seems like a great opportunity to gain some invaluable experience. I mean, I do love my country, but I'm not patriotic at all. It's a chance at a new career. I'm not the kinda person who's keen to jump off into the next combat zone and get shot at, but the fact is that it's part of the job. As is deploying, training and other things that may take me away from my home town... something that my gf is very much not cool with. But it's something I think I'd volunteer for in time, but not right away since my lack of training would probably mean I'll just be underfoot. But yeah... to join the military but not want to go is not uncommon, but to join and expect to not go anywhere is just kinda stupid...

 

What are you going in as?

[Caesar 305]

I think your response was on the mark. To want something but not work for it just does not add up, and especially to wear the uniform but be unwilling to sacrifice is pretty low.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

What are you going in as?

 

Not sure yet. Waiting to see what my chances of getting into Aviation are going to be like. Only problem is that if I'm successful, I won't be going back to Uni next year because it's full time... at the moment, I'm looking at reserves (possibly the ready reserves if I'm given the option) as it'll fit in with Uni nicely.

[eraser_tr 29]

Cowardly is too harsh. Hell I'd never want to be stuck on the ground there. But don't dare call me cowardly, I've no problem with a dangerous situation, but with ultimately having very little individual worth to people higher on the totem pole, because ultimately bush, gates and the joint chiefs aren't looking out for the everyday footsoldier. I'll risk flying a helicopter or plane into battle because its not something that can be thrown away and easily replaced.

 

The air force or navy would be a good choice, he can still serve and be useful and without being stuck in a FUBAR situation.

[+Dave 2,322]

Cowardly is too harsh. Hell I'd never want to be stuck on the ground there. But don't dare call me cowardly, I've no problem with a dangerous situation, but with ultimately having very little individual worth to people higher on the totem pole, because ultimately bush, gates and the joint chiefs aren't looking out for the everyday footsoldier. I'll risk flying a helicopter or plane into battle because its not something that can be thrown away and easily replaced.

 

The air force or navy would be a good choice, he can still serve and be useful and without being stuck in a FUBAR situation.

 

 

Eraser it went right over your head. So you are saying that by me being in the USAF I am avoiding combat? Because that is what you are implying. In fact it seems like you are condoning that he wants to avoud Iraq and Afganistan. I can tell you this no one in their right mind wants to go there and get their ass shot at. But making grandious statements like I want to join but avoid the bad that comes with it is indeed cowardly. And to say that Bush, Gates and the Joint Chiefs don't care is a bulls**t statement in itself. If you think they don't care about what happens to us then you are on crack. They do not take pleasure in sending us into harms way in which we could be killed. Anyone who thinks that is a fool.

[FastCargo 412]

Eraser,

 

Are you kidding me? You really don't know much about the military do you?

 

First, serving in the military is about serving your country, not serving a particular leader. Now, there may be other, secondary reasons to join up, but that is the primary reason. Period. What that also means is that it does not matter WHICH service you are in...there is a high probability, at some places more than others, that someone will be trying to throw nasty, pointy things at you.

 

Let's talk about the USAF for a minute. Do you know what an ALO is? It means Air Liaison Officer. Know what that is? It's a pilot, usually a bomber or fighter pilot, who acts as a liaison between the USAF and the ground forces (usually Army or Marine).

 

Not at the command level...at the ground level. Yep, a pilot, who the USAF has spent over a million dollars in training on, is in his BDUs, with his backpack, holding his M-16, with his range finder, laser marker, and radio, to coordinate CAS if his squad he's assigned to needs it. This isn't some -once in a blue moon- type thing...a LOT of guys rotate through the assignment, jumping out of planes instead of flying them, through the muck with the ruck.

 

Or how about security forces? Do you know how many deployed ops locations have USAF SFs? A hell of a lot of them...again, supposedly the 'easy' service has those guys in the tents, in the sand, with the ruck in the muck.

 

In the Navy? How about the Seebees? Oh wait, those are the guys who usually have to BUILD those bases in the sand...

 

There is NO such thing as a 'safe' service... As the services do more and more joint operations, non-traditional augmentations have popped up everywhere. The military is more and more mobile, which means more and more people are in the thick who weren't before. This started as a trend back in the post-cold war era, as the cuts of the 90s took hold. And who was in charge at that time?

 

So, bottom line? Hey, if you can't serve because of personal reasons...medical, life, or just weren't interested in general, hey, that's okay. It is a volunteer force after all. But to say that you'll only serve if you can avoid a conflict, or because of a particular leader?

 

It never, EVER works that way. The person who thinks he can join up and NOT have a significant probability of getting shot at is naive in the extreme. Don't believe me? Ask the guys in the Balkans,at Khobar Towers, on the USS Cole...all incidents that happened under a Democratic president during a time of 'peaceful economic growth'.

 

Don't put up a 'I'd serve, but I don't like...' and think it gives you moral eqivalency. It doesn't.

 

FastCargo

[MiGMasher 0]

Not sure yet. Waiting to see what my chances of getting into Aviation are going to be like. Only problem is that if I'm successful, I won't be going back to Uni next year because it's full time... at the moment, I'm looking at reserves (possibly the ready reserves if I'm given the option) as it'll fit in with Uni nicely.

 

Choco eh? There's a reserve aviation unit in Richmond, in my state (NSW). I don't know about SA.

 

If you are just going into reserves then you can take your training in modules, and it won't hurt your uni course so you can still do it.

 

How old are you btw?

Edited November 1, 2007 by MiGMasher

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

Choco eh?

Chocco...? Yeah... I do melt, so long as no one calls me F.I.N.C.L.E, I should survive

[bucklehead101 29]

Shoot guys,

Getting college money is good. Thats why a lot of people join. But its all about giving back. If the military pays for your school, then you should be willing to serve anywhere that they want to put you in. Its all about service to your country. Sounds like this dude is screwing the military by taking the money and runing. I think its a Crock of s***. I'll be graduating in a year and a half and i'll join the military. I want to get a rotc scholarship, but even if i don't, I'll still join. Its about giving back. This country has given so much to us, that some people take it for granted. Its the least i can do for my country. I want to give back to America. What ever happened to giving to your country. People are really greedy and self centered these days. What happened to morals?

[Viper6 3]

Well, as a combat vet, It would do you good to know what kind of job you would like to do, or what kind of job you would like to be taught to do. in the Army there is combat MOS's and combat support MOS's some jobs are farther away from the action than others but there is still a risk. I come from a LONG line of military people, from old uncles in the 'Red ball express' to Mom and dad in Viet Nam to my brother in the USAF and a sister in the Navy to life long friends in the Marines, If you want to kinda stay out of harms way pick a highly technical job in the Navy that way you can be a board a capital ship and not have to worry too much. anything else will increase your exposure to harm.

[MiGMasher 0]

Chocco...? Yeah... I do melt, so long as no one calls me F.I.N.C.L.E, I should survive

 

Chocco as in Chocolate Soldier: Melts in Battle! In Australia, it's what ARA personnel calls the Reserves, if anyone was wondering.

[MiGMasher 0]

If you want to kinda stay out of harms way pick a highly technical job in the Navy that way you can be a board a capital ship and not have to worry too much. anything else will increase your exposure to harm.

 

Engine room is a pretty risky place to be on a ship, especially when enemy torpedoes are in the water, or you're in mine-infested waters.

[Viper6 3]

Engine room is a pretty risky place to be on a ship, especially when enemy torpedoes are in the water, or you're in mine-infested waters.

Well it has been a LONG while since a enemy fish has been in the water and we have not lost a sailor to a mine in a while, the most credible threat would be a replay of the Cole incident but since then the Navy has made great strides to provide safety to its ships while in brown water.

[jazz5150 0]

I agree that the not wanting to go active is pretty cowardly. Although I did not see battle (I served with the Dutch nuclear artillery and we have not had a nuclear conflict), I have had friends and family in Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan. I'd say he is a disgrace to the uniform.

[Guest 531_Ghost]

I had to thank 20mm for locking that thread in the staff forums. Why thank him? Because I may not have cooled down enough before posting and got myself banned. You did very well Dave.

 

S/F

Ken