Soviet A2A Missile Weapons Pack Project

[+ghostrider883 526]

Bunyap was kind and hard working enough to make nation specific weapon mods to show up on nation specific a/c(read bunyap's pdf in the weapons pack).

Kukulino,

a friendly advice.... Just edit the data for the weps, do not delete them entirely.

[kukulino 1]

Bunyap was kind and hard working enough to make nation specific weapon mods to show up on nation specific a/c(read bunyap's pdf in the weapons pack).

Kukulino,

a friendly advice.... Just edit the data for the weps, do not delete them entirely.

Thank you for reply ghostrider883 :yes: Do not be affraid, I do not want delete exist weapons Bunyaps jul 2006 weps pack is one of the best packages created for SFP1/WOV/WOE. I can not fly without weapons packs released for SFP1 series.

 

I am just searching for info in this phase. And as I see, what I need know are right names for right missiles. Then I will know more. What I have now, is mess in missiles names, designations and characteristics

 

So, we have three R-60 versions for Soviet and WP use:

R-60T as first variant (R-60 called too, withou T)

R-60M improved version (need more info)

R-60TM - looks like variant for Mig-23ML/Mig-29? (probable named R-60MK in some countries)

 

Indian versions are designated for Indian AF.

 

Well, another from many interesting pages about R-60s, for example: http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jalw/jalw3595.html

Edited February 5, 2008 by kukulino

[+Gepard 11,295]

I found one difference between R-60M and MK wich is not often to hear. In german (westgerman) use the warhead of the MK was replaced by the warhead of the M. The reason was, that the continous rod warhead of the MK was made of Depleted Uranium and the M had one made of Wolfram Steel.

[kukulino 1]

I found one difference between R-60M and MK wich is not often to hear. In german (westgerman) use the warhead of the MK was replaced by the warhead of the M. The reason was, that the continous rod warhead of the MK was made of Depleted Uranium and the M had one made of Wolfram Steel.

Mmm, interesting news :yes:

So what we can do now? We have R-60TM no MK (but we can read that TM=MK...). Do you tried TM in dogfight? Very good I think.

Edited February 7, 2008 by kukulino

[Wrench 9,847]

I wasn't gonna do this, ....wondering about copyright issues..... but....

 

I have Yefrim Gordon's book "Soviet Air-Launched Weapons Since WW2" on pdf. It'll be over 65 megs, zipped (for some reason, pdf's don't seem to compress much - it's about 67 unzipped)

 

I can make it available, if there's enough interest....or

 

if I can find the site were I got it from (have an idea), I'll post a link.

 

On a side note, what about the PRC weapons??? Been working on trying to fix the J-7 series we got late last year, and I'm running into (LOTS) of issues. We may need to expand the PLAAF weapons by copying some of the Soviet RP and bombs and such like.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[kukulino 1]

Every good info about soviet missiles is needed :yes:

 

Good idea about chinese weapons. We can make cooperation together, if it is possible. Many soviet missiles were used on chinese planes. We need move. And for move we need info...

[kukulino 1]

Has anybody some reference to new A2A missiles and their effectivnes in WOI? :yes:

Edited February 20, 2008 by kukulino

[Caesar 305]

The AI evades them...and then laughs at you... well, not really the second part, but yeah, they got evasion down better. Even the AIM-9L which worked damn well in WoE/V has either a far more limited envelope or is fooled real easily. I have yet to hit a target with the "mighty Lima" as it was called in the 1970's. Sure, it'll get tone head on, but good luck actually hitting anything with it.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Caesar

[kukulino 1]

The AI evades them...and then laughs at you... well, not really the second part, but yeah, they got evasion down better. Even the AIM-9L which worked damn well in WoE/V has either a far more limited envelope or is fooled real easily. I have yet to hit a target with the "mighty Lima" as it was called in the 1970's. Sure, it'll get tone head on, but good luck actually hitting anything with it.

Thank you Caesar for interesting notes :yes:

 

TK wrote on Thirdwire forum that he search for more info about missiles. And as we can see, there are some new edits in WOI.

Edited February 20, 2008 by kukulino

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

kuk, I thought you might like this one...

 

 

I saw your link from last page...strange indeed.

 

kukulino::

Little interesting info: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/wor.../aa-5-specs.htm

Mmm, I do not understand that service in Czechoslovakia. We had no planes with R-4 missiles loadout in Czechoslovak AF.

I DUNNO :dntknw:

 

Maybe some Tu-128's flew missions there, but I thought -128 was used in the Far East and the North. Dunno.

[Erwin_Hans 6]

I hope,R-77 won't be a big rocket.

[Gr.Viper 131]

Doesn't look that big to me Just 3.6m long.

 

Found a pdf-ed Russian book on our A2A missiles. From RS-1U installed on MiG-17 to RS-77 for MiG-31.

There's also a similar book on A2G missiles.

[kukulino 1]

Hi Gr.Viper

 

Thanx for join :yes:

 

R-77 is veeery good missile And dangerous of course too

 

Great info about A2A missiles book. Will be very helpfull. Good to hear about book in russian language. It is oposite side for many books in english language. And different optics, I suppose.

 

Can you take a look on R-60 versions please? There is mess over internet in R-60 versions. So, can you refer us if there are notes about R-60 all aspect capability, please? If yes can you write which versions, please?

Edited March 1, 2008 by kukulino

[Gr.Viper 131]

R-60 you say... small, destabilised, nasty.

Two versions listed and described: original R-60 and R-60M with improved heatseeker (both tracking angle and range. R-60M is all aspect) and stronger explosive charge. There's also UZR-60 for training - has neither wings nor engine but records something.

It also can get a lock on target without aircraft actually pointing its nose at it. Gets bearing to target (up to 120 degrees) from plane's radar and/or heat tracker.

Has two types of pylons - and I'm pretty happy MiG-21 in WoI don't carry dual ones as the book says in 1982 there were reports of Lebanese R-60 flying right into Israeli exhausts. I'm scared

[+starfighter2 117]

Model: R-60M. Country: Russia. Department of Defence Designation: AA-8B. ASCC Reporting Name: Aphid-B. Manufacturer's Designation: R-60M. Missile: R-60M.

Manufacturer: Molniya Design Bureau. Location: Moscow, Russian Federation. Total Mass: 44 kg (96 lb). Core Diameter: 0.12 m (0.40 ft). Total Length: 2.09 m (6.85 ft). Span: 0.39 m (1.27 ft). Maximum range: 7.50 km (4.60 mi). Boost Propulsion: Solid rocket. Guidance: Infrared Homing.

 

An upgraded version, the R-60M (NATO 'Aphid-B'), using a nitrogen-cooled seeker with an expanded view angle of ±20°, was introduced around 1982. Although its seeker is more sensitive than its predecessor, the R-60M has only limited all-aspect capability. Minimum engagement range was further reduced, to only 200 m (218.7 yd).The proximity fuzes had improved resistance to ECM, although both optical and radar fuzes remained available (radar-fuzed R-60Ms with the Kolibri-M fuze are designated R-60KM). The R-60M is 42mm (1.7 in) longer, and has a heavier, 3.5 kg (7.7 lb) continuous-rod warhead, increasing launch weight to 45 kg (99 lb). In some versions the warhead is apparently laced with about 1.6 kg (3.5 lb) of depleted uranium to increase the penetrating power of the warhead

 

Model: R-60MK. Country: Russia. Department of Defence Designation: AA-8C. ASCC Reporting Name: Aphid-C. Manufacturer's Designation: R-60MK. Missile: R-60MK.

Manufacturer: OKB-4, Bisnovat, Molniya. Total Mass: 45 kg (99 lb). Core Diameter: 0.12 m (0.39 ft). Total Length: 2.14 m (7.02 ft). Span: 0.39 m (1.27 ft). Maximum range: 12 km . Guidance: Infrared Homing. Maximum speed: 2,820 kph (1,750 mph). Minimum range: 1.30 km (0.80 mi).

 

The MK variant has a head-on range of 12 km and a tail-on of 8 km, with a maximum speed of Mach 2.5 and uses proportional navigation for guidance. It became the first missile to be incorporated with the new helmet-mounted sighting system in the MiG-29. Our and Indian MiG-21Bis are also useing it on dual racks - 6 missles combat loadout with 800l or 490l drop tank on centerline.

 

Serbian MiG-21BiS with load of six R-60MK's

 

Two (four) R-60MK AAMs fitted on an Indian Air Force MiG-21bis

 

 

The inert training version of the R-60M was the R-60MU.

Edited March 1, 2008 by starfighter2

[+Brain32 265]

I collected some data about modern Soviet missiles(R-60/R-73/R-77) but I need to organize it before I post

[kukulino 1]

Thank you guys for info :yes:

 

Every info is welcomed. I am looking forward to your info too, Brain32

 

Ok, so we have reference about all aspect capabilities to R-60M.

 

We can set it as All aspect, but it is not all.

 

Min lauch range in Jul2006 Weps pack is 0.4 km. Of course, in reality it depends on many conditions (height for example). Max lauch range (WP2006) is 4 km. If I set it as All aspect, its all aspect capability is really limited becouse 4 km is veeery short range to "lock", fire and hit target in head to head position (espetially in dogfight). I tried it many times, and not easy hit target. So this is relatively close to "limited all aspect capability".

 

But there is no tutorial how make missile values in general here over CA, I think. Or Am I wrong? I do not understand all that lines needed to set missiles "correct" parametres in Weapons editor.

[Dagger1 7]

Hi everyone..

I have a little suggestion for the upcoming soviet weapons pack, first of all the soviet radars has to be more powerfull eg. the su-15A/F series had powerfull radaras in reality, inorder to gude the SAHM when fighting against a B-52 for example! in the game u will only shoot the B-52 down when using a powerfull radars with a powerful missle say for example the Anab, or minimize the power of the B-52 ECM?!!, any ways the whole thing needs to be revised, because the B-52 has too much armor on it when i tried to shoot it down after i took out its ECM, and counter measures by modding it wont go down??!!! does that happen in real world??

[+nele 0]

I am glad that somebody took Eastern missiles under revision. I have much less time to start WOE, let alone make mods, but I have "per-spec'd" R-60, R-60M and later Mod62M. (known as R-60T, R-60M and R-60TM in WOE world ) .

 

I think I published their details (some from MiG-29-12B Combat Manual). In real world, they are comparable to AIM-9L/M but with lesser range (both min and max), as well as less jam/noise protection. Newer "60M" is better.

 

Of course, I de-tuned AIM-9L, it is good missile in reality but not Uber-missile I also used some reference data, it is still deadly, but no more carefree-launch (it is also prone to jam and noise).

 

I think that Chinese missiles have the closest "feel", if not by performance, then because the real missile can get "fooled" like they do (or make a near miss without exploding).

 

As for R-40, R-23/24, R-23T is rear-aspect only, R-24T is all aspect. Also, R-23R and R-23T cannot be carried by MiG-23M at the same time (24R-T can). I have re-modded them, too. R-40R and T are quite jam-protected. RD and TD use modified seeker from R-24.

 

Nele

[kukulino 1]

Well, I tested all aspect R-23T heavilly... Deadly for oponents... But everything looks like that R-23 is not all aspect or very limited... Well, I will try another search for it. But what is really needed is reduced warhead weight. So R-24T will be deadly with all aspect capabilities

 

Some good info: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/inde...opic,60.15.html

According to this, R-23T is rear 180 aspect.

 

According the same site, but different topic, Mig-23ML can engage targets from "all aspect positions" just with R-23R:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/inde...ght,mig-23.html

 

 

WOI AIM-9L is not so good as anytime before (I heard it). So maybe soviet weps pack is not needed when mighty Lima is out

Just joke

[+nele 0]

From Russian sources, R-23T is rear-aspect only. It became all aspect in R-24T variant.

 

(Thing is, R-24R has a new seeker different than R-23R, and R-24T has improved seeker more like one on R-23T, but all-aspect).

 

R-40RD got new "25" seeker (analogue to R-24 seeker), different from R-40R and R-40TD got improved seeker, all-aspect version of R-40T. (or, better to say, R-40TD could make a head on lock onto much "cooler" airplanes than SR-71 was ).

 

MiG-23M could carry either pair of R-23R or pair R-23T. Not R/T combo. For changing missile set, electronics guidance blocks on MiG-23M had to be changed (tedious job). MiG-23ML and later could carry the R/T mix.

 

"Lima" also missed a "barn door from 10 yards" couple of times, that's why it got successor, as R-60M mod 62 got modded into mod-62M.

 

As for the missile seeker model, one does not have to put things to 100% to make it deadly; I had tried almost ridicilous values for R-60M for jam/noise/precision, and seeker made per spec. And the thing would make great off-boresight or head-on-kill, only not the "carefree" one (to the sun, ground, at aspect too large etc.).

 

One cannot do that with real AIM-9X or R-73, for that matter...

 

Nele

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

Can`t wait to see the updatd russian weapons!

[+Brain32 265]

OK here are some links as I promised:

 

Some general and pretty basic modern missile info:

http://www.enemyforces.com/missiles.htm

 

Some pretty nice info from Ghostriders's boys, features: R-60/R-27/R-77/R-23 and also French Matra MagicII and 530D:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Weapons/AAMs/

 

Again some pretty good info with nice details about modern soviet missiles R-27/77/73 + R-60(version not specified):

http://warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=262&amp...itle=Air-to-Air

 

Russian AND Chineese weaponry, air to air, air to surface, anti-ship, guided bombs etc. again, modern stuff only:

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/weapon/default.asp

 

Hope you guys will find this read interesting

[kukulino 1]

Thank you Brain32 :yes:

 

Very usable info

[+Dave 2,322]

Of course, I de-tuned AIM-9L, it is good missile in reality but not Uber-missile I also used some reference data, it is still deadly, but no more carefree-launch (it is also prone to jam and noise).

 

 

What numbers are you using for the 9 Lima? I am curious.