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Wrench

Yet more terrain questions...

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Ok, I'm pretty near done with the salvaged American SouthWest terrain that was discovered 'elsewhere'; all that truely remains in some target fine tuning; movements are all plotted for both sides (only 1 Anti-ship route for the "Global Sedition", while the Alliance get 2 -- not enough map to have many more, plus the lack of port facilities that far south)

 

anyway...I'm having problems with defining the Front Line. I want it to look more or less like this (please forgive the lack of cities...for some reason, the planning map generator is not picking them up -anybody know how to fix that??)

 

asw_planningmap.jpg

 

I did it in yellow to make it more visible. I've used the WoVSqmd to plot the coordinates, and it either dosen't show up, or is pointing in all kinds of strange directions.

 

this is from the movement ini:

 

[FrontLine]

FriendlyBase=Brownsville Airport

EnemyBase=Laredo International

Position[001]=24400,110115

Position[002]=186872,181809

Position[003]=141312,260881

Position[004]=121235,296236

Position[005]=109944,309776

StartShow=4

EndShow=12

 

The questions are, for this section..

1) Do they actually NEED to be airports? Or will cities themselves do?

2) How many points are actualy needed? ie: can the end points themselves be defined only, or are more needed?

3) and DO the "StartShow=" and "EndShow=" truely mean? Is this just for campaigns?

 

Next section:

Environmentalsystem ini:

I've seen several terrains that have them defined for themselves ONLY, as opposed to just using those generated in-game.

I know you can add the Lat & Long to the *** main ini, as shown here:

 

[Terrain]

TerrainFullName=American South West

DataFile=ASW_data.INI

TargetFile=ASW_targets.INI

TargetTypeFile=ASW_types.INI

MovementFile=ASW_movement.INI

NationsFile=ASW_nations.INI

BriefingText=ASW_briefing.INI

DogfightFile=ASW_dogfight.INI

DogfightOnly=FALSE

CatFile=..\Desert\Desert.cat

//CatFile=..\GermanyCE\GermanyCE.cat

//CatFile=..\VietnamSEA\VietnamSEA.cat

Longitude=97.0

Latitude=27.0

 

Is it necessary to have create another and have IT sitting in the terrain folder?? Or is the Lat/Long enough?

 

On a side note, it's been originally tested with ONLY the SF tiles (in WoE & SF using the cat pointer line); the WoV/WoE usalbe versions will require Polak's desert tiles. They don't fit as nice as I'd like, since to do so would require a complete and utter rebuild from the ground up - well beyond MY abilities (I had to bribe Sag to flatten the airfields for me :wink: ), but they do work, given the limitations of my knowledge and abilitites.

There is some strangeness at Houston; might be near the 80km buffer zone, to say nothing of Matamores, MX just below Brownsville. To that end, I've added Austin, Ft Sam Houston (where my father was stationed for a while in 1944), but NOT Randolph AFB. Brownsville is literally on the border of the Occupied Zone, and catches the occasional shelling. To say nothing of having SAMs zipping at you whilst taking off (this has been fixed!)

 

So, Ideas??

 

TIA!

Wrench

kevin stein

 

now, to see if I can bribe Sag to flatten the SoCal map, and finish that...

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Well, I did took the liberty to redraw the front line of Edward's North Africa map for a campaign.

 

Friendly/EnemyBase does not need to be an airbase, any target area will do.

 

I do think that the front line points are supposed to start at 000000,x (or vice versa), depending whether you want to North-South or East-West separation and end at 999999,y.

 

The StartShow/EndShow values mean that if you have, let's say 16 positions, the front line will only be shown from position 4 to 12.

 

Hope this helps somehow...

Edited by Gocad

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Yes, frontline must extend from zero edge to another zero edge. It does not have to north-south or east-west... Only that it closes off a section of the map from the rest... Show means that frontline point is displayed on mpa, as Gocad noted...

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Glad you've brought this one over here Kevin. How do I claim my finders fee! :biggrin:

 

Looking forward to seeing this one. It'll be a lot better than the one that's been sitting on my HD since I downloaded it all that time ago.

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Glad you've brought this one over here Kevin. How do I claim my finders fee! :biggrin:

 

Looking forward to seeing this one. It'll be a lot better than the one that's been sitting on my HD since I downloaded it all that time ago.

 

 

Yeah, thanks for me too. I was going to run into this very same problem if you had not asked it and if people had not answered it.

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Ok.....now I'm totally and utterly lost...

 

So, if I get this right, I need to define a coordinate at the map edges??...say, fer instance, 2/3 the way up on the left side, and at the lower right corner?? To create the diagonal???

 

I still don't get the start/end numbers...it's the total of target areas along the line or near the line?? What happen if set to 0

 

err....very confused-ifyed

 

If one of you Guru's want to have a look, PM me and I'll get you a link....(whiney voice...) I sooo confused!!! :rofl:

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

Allen: we'll discuss the finder's fee upon release! :wink:

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To the frontline

 

[FrontLine]

FriendlyBase=Brownsville Airport

EnemyBase=Laredo International

Position[001]=24400,110115

Position[002]=186872,181809

Position[003]=141312,260881

Position[004]=121235,296236

Position[005]=109944,309776

StartShow=4 <<<<<<<this is wrong

EndShow=12 <<<<<<< this is wrong

 

try follow entries

StartShow=1

EndShow=5

 

thats all :;-) :smile:

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The frontline can start and end on one side if you want; it just has to separate one area from another... The frontline is defined by the points listed... You do not have to have all points displayed on the briefing map however...

 

Startshow = the first point on your frontline list that will be shown on the map

Endshow = the last point on your frontline map that will be shown on the map...

 

Start and end show have nothing to do with targets. Only defines the friendly and enemy "sides" (or area if you prefer...)

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Ok, after playing with it most of the morning...this is what I got (and wanted!) The image is kinda largeish, sorry.

 

front-line.jpg

 

But (you were waiting for that, right)....

 

something new and unforseen has occured...

 

???? -- is there a distance limit from the front line that make airfields unusable???

As it stands now, Brownsville is NOT selectable in the single missions screen. Tested with various aircraft (sabres to Eagles!) for CAP/Intercept, and Scooters to Mud Hens for strike,cas, sead...all the ground attack missions.

 

Conversly, withOUT the front line defined, it works. (ie: nothing listed)

 

This leaves the Alliance (and RepTex) forces with only 2 airfields...which isnt really a problem as I"m going to remove Monterrey Aux Field....too close to the northern hills for safe landings and take off. I guess Brownsville gonna get 'remodeled' with the addition of fixed, destroyed buildings. It'll make it look more like a base under siege (re: "Warbirds")

 

I just keep coming up with something different every time, don't I guys??? :wink:

 

With thanks to those PMs that explained much...they are being kept safe for use in the KB

 

Wrench

kevin stein

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???? -- is there a distance limit from the front line that make airfields unusable???

 

 

I had a hard time getting the F/L to behave itself for BoB campaign. Eventually, I sussed out that the F/L treats target areas with airfields differently from target areas without airfields, at least in campaign mode.

 

As ground forces capture strategic nodes, the frontline will move. It needs target areas without airfields to act as buffers or backstops. Target areas with airfields won't perform this function, and their allegiance will change if they end up on the other side of the F/L after it has moved.

 

Hence, the "collapsing" F/L in BoB campaign, which turned all the airfields in Western France into RAF bases, was cured by adding some non-airfield target areas in that part of the map. Voila, no more collapse, and everything stayed where it should be.

 

It might be that the proximity to the F/L is causing Brownville to switch sides. Can you fly red side missions from there?

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What United States?? Don't you know in the New Order, it's punishable by death to posses the US flag, or even speak of "the United States"

 

No, it actually follows the ANW update I did for fun, with the "Global Sedition" vs the "Alliance". Mexico is occupied territory.

(it could also be used, with some target editing, for a hypothetical invasion of the Southwest by Nazi forces...or if you really want to stretch it...The Race -- those ginger-sniffing lizards from space)

 

----

to answer the tother question, red side also won't launch from there; Brownsville is still set as "FRIENDLY" in the targets ini.

 

As it stands, with CC and Galveston,and Laredo and Escobido Intl , it gives 2 airfields on each side...not quite the balence I wanted; considering Texas seems to be covered in all kinds of airports -- ya can't swing a dead cow in that state, and NOT land on an airfield!!!

 

I think we'll just call it a day on Brownsville. It DOES give the GS forces something to attack, and Alliance forces something to protect.

 

Don't even get me started on the tiles issues....6 different tile sets have/are being tested for this. A couple I dont' even think are available anymore...Deuces photo-real desert; I've got one that I don't know who made it (Gepard maybe?)...the tiles are 512x...and look pretty good.

 

You WoV and WoE users are gonna have some work cut out for you finding tiles. Right now, it looks like Polack's desert (here at CA) will be you alternative; not the best, but workable.

Of course, some of the issues in the terrain itself...could use a complete new build and retileing...waaaaay above my skill level.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

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Born in West Texas, grew up in South Texas.

 

Actaully the area in the target circle is very near the city Victoria, where I spent several years as a contractor with DuPont and DEC. In some respects, WOE tiles would be a better fit for the Northen and Eastern areas of the map. East Texas being primarly a pine forest beginning just a little West of Houston (70 miles north of Galveston), and covering most all of the state to the East.

 

Near Corpus Christy to Brownville, and the mentioned target area on the map, is known as the Coast Bend area of Texas, mostly grasslands and flat as a pancake. The area between Galveston and the target circle is known as the rice-belt in Texas. Of course, paddies are not used, but dry rice crop harvested for about a 70 mile area for over a century until the market when belly up.

 

Near Brownsville, the Rio Grande valley, a prime citrus growing area, and not exactly desert terran either. In central Texas where the lighter elevations show, is known as the Hill Country, cattle ranching, North of San Antonio to Austin, and West from there. Hilly, live oaks, and mostly green all year round. SouthWest Texas and Northern Mexican states have a semi-arid climate, but the desert areas resemble more the Suagaro deserts here in Arizona, which look nothing like desert areas in the middle east or nothern Africa.

 

Little known facts:

 

At one time in the 19th century German was the most common language in San Antonio. Immigration into Central Texas.

 

Immgrants settled primarily around the town of Fredricksburg which is a little west of Austin, because it reminded them of the Rhine valley.

Edited by Stwa

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thanks, Stwa...that's some interesting info! Using google earth like I've been doing, defianetally tells me the desert tiles 'ain't quite right'

 

My mother in law was from Vernon, near the OK border.

 

So, given what we know about the actual coloration of the terrain, perhaps something of a more euro-look would be in order? Unfortunately, none of the rivers are there -- this map was a real POS when I first got it. Now it's just half-assed! :haha: It would need a total, complete and utter rebuild from the ground up (so to speak)

Damn, I just tested it with Gepard's desert beta tiles, and it looked pretty good too... :sorry:

Well, hell...looks like I better go find some semi-airid green tiles.... :haha:

 

Oddly enough, as I was testing those tiles in my Prop Cold War install, flying a Mustang...I could take off from Brownsville. So far, in my regualr 'jets' install, no such luck. Even a SPAD (A-1 that is) won't.

 

Since you're one of our planning map gurus, how do I get the cities themselves to show??? Austin, San Antonio, Rio Grande, Laredo, Galveston, Houston, Beeville, Kingville, Harlingin, etc, etc, and of course, etc.

 

Off to peruse the d/l section...again...

 

Wrench

kevin stein

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thanks, Stwa...that's some interesting info! Using google earth like I've been doing, defianetally tells me the desert tiles 'ain't quite right'

 

My mother in law was from Vernon, near the OK border.

 

So, given what we know about the actual coloration of the terrain, perhaps something of a more euro-look would be in order? Unfortunately, none of the rivers are there -- this map was a real POS when I first got it. Now it's just half-assed! :haha: It would need a total, complete and utter rebuild from the ground up (so to speak)

Damn, I just tested it with Gepard's desert beta tiles, and it looked pretty good too... :sorry:

Well, hell...looks like I better go find some semi-airid green tiles.... :haha:

 

Oddly enough, as I was testing those tiles in my Prop Cold War install, flying a Mustang...I could take off from Brownsville. So far, in my regualr 'jets' install, no such luck. Even a SPAD (A-1 that is) won't.

 

Since you're one of our planning map gurus, how do I get the cities themselves to show??? Austin, San Antonio, Rio Grande, Laredo, Galveston, Houston, Beeville, Kingville, Harlingin, etc, etc, and of course, etc.

 

Off to peruse the d/l section...again...

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

You're so good at everything, It makes me really sad that you are asking me a question, but here goes. This is a real trade secret by Stwa, so if you sread this around "I Kill You".

 

I do it the old fashioned way, by plotting them with a sreadsheet. I use Gimp to create a layer over the map and call the layer "Locations". In the spreadsheet, I have all the x,y coordinates for each target area (city, airbase, what have you). The spreadsheet calculates the x,y coordinate for the city or airabase symbol applied to each planning map. I use three planning maps, 512X512, 1024X1024, 2048X2048. I then cut and paste a copy of the symbols in the calculated locations.

 

I do not use SFMAP, because it scales at 72.009 dpi which will generally create small errors. I use Gimp to scale each map seperately and scale at 72.000 dpi.

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Oh, and not that I am trying to throw a Wrench into this (no pun intended).

 

The one area on your map that would be dune like and sandy (like a North African desert), is Padre Island, which for the most part is the small barrier island in front of the main coast line. The sea area between it and the mainland from Corpus up to Gavelston and to the East, is the Intercoastal canal or waterway, which is totally polluted. The "canal" in the south eastern part of the state, and the adjacent coastal regions are home to a vast petro-chemical industry, which has created one of the most polluted areas and most dangerous work environments on the planet.

 

So perhaps some murky brown water tiles would be good. And no smoking when you fly over these areas.

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