WoI Historic Mods Thread

[Wrench 9,847]

This discussion forum/thread/whatever is designed for those with an interest in exploring the potential of WoI in all eras that it should be operational in.

 

Just to name a few, things like "War of Independece", 1956 Suez Crisis, 'Water Wars', and other stuff not covered by the stock game.

 

We'll be discussing, obviously, the aircraft of the varying nations; many of which already exist reaching back to the end of the 2nd World War, ground vehicles, tanks, trucks, personell carriers, anti-aircraft units.

 

With regards to the aircraft, in particular the loadouts and operations years, any and all verifiable information anybody knows will be happily accepted; obviously we'll be limited to what's available in the 2 weapons paks.

 

Those of you not familiar with the weapons paks might want to spend a little time exploring them. There is a (gotta go biblical with this!) a vast host of weapons for the nations involved to use. I'm talking about the 'nationalized' types as seen in Buny's Pak. These can be easily added to TMF, using the new weapons editor. I should know...I've already done it. With one exception, ALL the aircraft from 1948 - 1966ish are fully functional in my "Historic" install.

 

so, lets get to going here...

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+LloydNB 212]

Thanks for this Wrench

 

To start things off, below is the list I prepared about available Arab aircraft for 1967. The Provost isn't available yet but I've added it because Capun is working on one. I'll update it with the location of the add-ons as we go along.

 

MiG 15bis - Egypt, Syria

MiG 15UTI - Egypt

MiG 17F - Algeria, Egypt, Syria, Iraq

MiG 17PF - Egypt, Syria

MiG 19 - Egypt, Syria, Iraq

MiG 21F-13 - Algeria, Egypt, Syria, Iraq

MiG 21PF - Egypt, Syria

MiG 21PRM - Egypt

Hunter FR Mk6 - Jordan, Lebanon

Hunter FR Mk59B - Iraq

Vampire FB Mk59 - Jordan

Venom F Mk1 - Iraq

Venom FB Mk52 - Iraq

Jet Provost Mk52 - Iraq

Su 7BMK - Egypt

Il-28 - Egypt, Syria, Iraq

Tu-16 - Egypt, Iraq

C-47 - Egypt, Syria, Jordan

An-12B - Egypt, Iraq

Mi-8 - Egypt

Wessex Mk52 - Iraq

Whirlwind - Jordan

[+allenjb42 4,234]

I'm in. Thanks for hosting the party Kevin.

 

I can provide Israeli orders of battle from 1948-2001, as well as individual squadron details (number, name, dates, bases, aircraft). Oh, and some decals too if anyone needs them.

[+SkippyBing 8]

I'm in the (now extremely long-winded) process of modelling the Westland Wyvern which popped up at Suez. I think I started it for SF and at some point it morphed into an FSX project, however it'll still come to SF probably a month or two after FSX.

 

Anyway due to my anal level of research I can probably fill in any blanks on it. For starters weapons wise if it fits on a Seahawk it'll do for the Wyvern. And they never flew operationally with torpedoes despite the original design aim.

Edited February 27, 2008 by SkippyBing

[+LloydNB 212]

I'm happy to concentrate on the EAF and RJAF. It would be nice to have as many aircraft in their correct colours with the right squadron markings and serial numbers as possible. If we start of with Orders of Battle for each conflict then we can fill the gaps over time (probably a long time!).

 

And to start things off......

EAF 1956

(from Suez Crisis, 1956: The War of Stripes by Tom Cooper. www.acig.org)

 

1 Sqn, MiG-17, (6 to 12), Almaza - *

2 Sqn Vampire FB.52, (15), Cairo West - *

3 Sqn C-47, (20), Almaza - *

4 Sqn Beechcraft and misc. other, (?), Dekhlia

5 Sqn, Meteor F.Mk.4, Meteor T.Mk.7, Meteor F.Mk.8, (12), Fayd - *

7 Sqn C-46, (20), on Almaza

8 & 9 Sqn Il-28, (29), Inchas then Luxor - *

10 Sqn Meteor NF.13, (5), Almaza - (In development)

11 Sqn Il-14, (20), Almaza

?? Sqn MiG-15, (??), Inchas - *

?? Sqn MiG-15, (??), Almaza - *

20 Sqn MiG-15, (15), Kibrit - *

30 Sqn MiG-15, (15), Abu Swayr - *

31 Sqn Vampire FB.52, (18), Kasfareet

40 Sqn Vampire FB.52, (10), Fayd - * (Unreleased)

 

Others

MiG-15UTI, (6 to 12), Fayd - * (Unreleased)

Sea Fury FB.11 - * (Updated skinned in development)

Yak-11

Bücker Bü.181

Mraz Sokol, al-Arish

Halifax A.Mk.9, (9) - (In development)

Lancaster, (9) -*

Spitfire F.Mk.22s - *

Chipmunk - (In development)

Harvard - *

H5-Dragonfly, (1) - *

 

* Indicates that aircraft is currently available. However, not all currently have skins.

 

The books I have indicate that there were 4 MiG 15bis squadrons but I can only identify two squadron numbers.

 

LloydNB

Edited February 28, 2008 by LloydNB

[Wrench 9,847]

Now, as to loadouts for specific aircraft, do you all want them posted here, or in the KB Loadout Fixes thread?? I know somebody (Johan?) was asking about the MD-450. I have loadouts using both/either paks...

 

I can always start a new Thread or sub-thread specific to WOI in the KB...for historical aircraft only - non of the fantasy, What Ifs (including many of my own...) and other BS birds.

 

Speaking of which, wouldn't the Sabre cockpit be a little better for the Ouragan, than the Scooters???

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+LloydNB 212]

Since we've got started, post the loadouts here. Good idea to swap the Ouragan cockpit - the Sabre one looks much better.

 

How is the Meteor N.13 coming along?

 

LloydNB

[+Johan217 5]

Now, as to loadouts for specific aircraft, do you all want them posted here, or in the KB Loadout Fixes thread?? I know somebody (Johan?) was asking about the MD-450. I have loadouts using both/either paks...

 

I can always start a new Thread or sub-thread specific to WOI in the KB...for historical aircraft only - non of the fantasy, What Ifs (including many of my own...) and other BS birds.

 

Speaking of which, wouldn't the Sabre cockpit be a little better for the Ouragan, than the Scooters???

 

Wrench

kevin stein

Checking in... I'm working on the Suez Crisis campaign, so my priorities are the aircraft for that era. I might be doing something with the other campaigns too, but later.

 

I have all the aircraft working (i.e. flyable and no missing pieces) that I used for my earlier Suez campaign. A few tweaks are needed for aircraft that have a movable canopy (Meteor and F-84F). You'll need to comment out the lines like in the example below:

 

[Canopy]

SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE

;DeploymentMethod=AUTOMATIC_SPEED

;Setting[1].Angle=30.0

;Setting[1].DeployValue=15.0

;Setting[1].RetractValue=10.0

;MaxDeflection=30.0

;MinDeflection=0.0

;ControlRate=0.3

;AnimationID=5

;MinExtentPosition=1.8169,0.5474,-0.9940

;MaxExtentPosition=-1.8544,-0.4772,0.0110

 

Also, for aircraft (like the SeaHawk) that alias the cockpit to the F-100 or A-4B, you need to use a different cockpit or use the files from SFP1/WOV. Haven't looked at the Mosquito yet, it wasn't in my earlier campaigns but I will add it now. As for the other aircraft, I' prefer to keep the addon requirements as low as possible, so I'm thinking of using just one variant for the Meteor. Would the F8 be most representative?

[+allenjb42 4,234]

Is it worth putting together a WOI weapons pack, with just the stuff relevant to WOI? We don't need all of the nation-specific weapons from the big weapons pack except for Israel and any of the arab countries, but we do need some WW2 stuff and some of the later 'weapons' like the Israeli camoflaged A-4 hump and F-4 tanks, the F-16I CFTs and the Popeye missiles, plus there will be relevant stuff in the MF weapons pack too.

 

IMHO it's too much to ask the hopefully huge influx of new community members coming in on the back of WOI to try to cull all of the relevant stuff from so many sources themselves, merging various packs etc. I know I'm having trouble and I've been doing this a while!

Edited February 28, 2008 by allenjb42

[BattlerBritain 1]

I'm having a go at adding the older planes to WOI but I see I'm not as far through it as others .

 

I'm copying across weapons from a 'Wings Over Middle East' install I did of my own prior to WOI and so far no probs. I'm making national versions for Western weapons used by the Arab nations, eg Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon.

 

I have put the Mossie into Israeli service and it seems to fly OK on Hard Mode. Does seem to go into a stall if pushed a little too hard but you can recover it with a bit of effort. The AI pilots seem to recover but take about 5,000ft to do so.

 

Thanks for the hint on the Meteor canopy Johan - I'll try that.

 

One thing I have come across when using the Mossie, P-51D and Sea Fury is that when using 60lb rockets when you hit the trigger once all rockets get fired at the same time. Anyone know how get it so you only fire 1 rocket on each trigger hit?

 

And anyone know how to edit the %chance for gun jam for each gun type, or even if that is possible?

[+Johan217 5]

Is it worth putting together a WOI weapons pack, with just the stuff relevant to WOI?

I would love that, and for this reason:

When you recieve new weapon supplies in a campaign, it will show all weapons that are applicable to your aircraft, so with all-in weapon packs you'll get a huge list and it is hard to find the thing you need. A specific weapons pack would remedy this.

 

A few things I've seen so far in stock WOI:

- AIM9-B >>> according to a few sources the IDF never used it, the first Sidewinder used was the AIM-9D when the F-4E entered service in 1968

- Shafrir 1 >>> appears to be absent

- Sa'ar >>> has 2 Rockeyes or A2A missiles on the centreline stores, but these are not shown in the loadout screen (stock Sa'ar + cockpit alias, no other ini changes)

Edited February 28, 2008 by Johan217

[Wrench 9,847]

A quick look in the objectdata.cat, shows the existence of the A-4B pit lod and needed gauges bmps.

 

The Hunter and F-100 are the ones missing; which is no real problem for most folks have WoE to extract them from. Those that don't have the Hunter (SF/WoV) can just use the F-100.

 

Depending on the pak used; and for this I'd most definatley have to reccomend building up on the TMF pak, weapons in the campaign will have to be 'adjusted' as well. Shafir 1 is the TMF pak; didn't the Mir3CJ use French IRMs when first entering serivce??

 

Be careful with some of the nationalized weapons for the Arab nations...some of them don't want to show up or load, no matter what seems to be done to them. It may be a simpler, easier matter to just let them carry non-hisotircal Soviet weapons. (as stated in another thread, set the Hunters attachment to "WP", and use the UV32 and FAB250)

 

I've got a pak built, based on the TMF one that has all the early stuff already put in. The only thing I haven't done, it switch Wolf's P-51 rocket rack to mount the 60#ers...still set for HVARs. If anyone is interested...

 

I think the gunjams are hard coded...I'm not sure I'm liking that feature...

 

As to Meteor variants, we have the EAF F.4 and F.8, the IDF F.8, my (mostly) complete IDF NF.13 - I think it need decaling or something...been a while. Can't remember if the EAF used NF.13 or NF14 (I have both as RAF versions -remember, these are Beta aircraft, with some flaws)

 

More later...

Wrench

kevin stein

[+allenjb42 4,234]

I've got a pak built, based on the TMF one that has all the early stuff already put in. The only thing I haven't done, it switch Wolf's P-51 rocket rack to mount the 60#ers...still set for HVARs. If anyone is interested...

 

You betcha! But we'll need the modern stuff too.

 

I think the gunjams are hard coded...I'm not sure I'm liking that feature...

I had one of the guns on an A-4 jam last night in the middle of yanking and banking with a Syrian Mig-23 after plastering an airfield. I decided discretion was the better part of valour and made my excuses - tree top level all the way home.

 

As to Meteor variants, we have the EAF F.4 and F.8, the IDF F.8, my (mostly) complete IDF NF.13 - I think it need decaling or something...been a while. Can't remember if the EAF used NF.13 or NF14 (I have both as RAF versions -remember, these are Beta aircraft, with some flaws)

 

Don't know about the EAF, but the Israelis had NF13, T7, F8 and FR9 in 1956. I'm working on typing up an order of battle dated 29 October 1956 from Air War on the Edge tha I'll post tonight or tomorrow.

[+LloydNB 212]

Hi Wrench

 

Israel, Egypt, the RAF and Syria were all operating the NF.13 in 1956 - that's the "bird-cage" canopy.

 

Where both sides operated the same aircraft I have been making two installs and renaming one (eg. Meteor F.8 (Arab)), changing its country of origin and its weapon attachment to "WP".

 

LloydNB

[+Sundowner 4,819]

AD's Hunter F6 has a suez skin and lebonese in there...if its any use.

[+Johan217 5]

Where both sides operated the same aircraft I have been making two installs and renaming one (eg. Meteor F.8 (Arab)), changing its country of origin and its weapon attachment to "WP".

Is that necessary? In My MidEast campaigns for SFP1/WOV I got the Meteor working for either side, and the fuel tanks/weapons showed up correctly.

 

The attachmenttype for the Meteor was set to UK, using Bunyap's pack. I just added this in the campaign_data.ini:

 

Supply[001].WeaponType=MeteorTank

Supply[001].Quantity=80

Supply[002].WeaponType=500lbGP

Supply[002].Quantity=20

Supply[003].WeaponType=60lb-rocket

Supply[003].Quantity=120

 

Haven't tried it yet in WOI though...

[+Brainless 1]

This discussion forum/thread/whatever is designed for those with an interest in exploring the potential of WoI in all eras that it should be operational in.

 

Just to name a few, things like "War of Independece", 1956 Suez Crisis, 'Water Wars', and other stuff not covered by the stock game.

 

We'll be discussing, obviously, the aircraft of the varying nations; many of which already exist reaching back to the end of the 2nd World War, ground vehicles, tanks, trucks, personell carriers, anti-aircraft units.

 

With regards to the aircraft, in particular the loadouts and operations years, any and all verifiable information anybody knows will be happily accepted; obviously we'll be limited to what's available in the 2 weapons paks.

 

Those of you not familiar with the weapons paks might want to spend a little time exploring them. There is a (gotta go biblical with this!) a vast host of weapons for the nations involved to use. I'm talking about the 'nationalized' types as seen in Buny's Pak. These can be easily added to TMF, using the new weapons editor. I should know...I've already done it. With one exception, ALL the aircraft from 1948 - 1966ish are fully functional in my "Historic" install.

 

so, lets get to going here...

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

Ugh and ugh...seems like I'm going to have to get this one after all. Now where's that credit card!!

[Guest capun]

Meteor_F8 interim WoI fixes

 

There are several tweeks that need to be done with pre-WOI add-on planes, one of them is the open canopy feature.

 

- Convert the automatic canopy opening to a manual mode. Open the Meteor_F8_Data.ini, search for the [Canopy] entry and replace it with this

 

[Canopy]

SystemType=ANIMATION

InputName=ANIMATION_10

AnimationTime=3.0

AnimationID=5

 

Now the canopy open/close is toggles by the Keyboard Key 0 (Zero)

 

- Allow for open canopies while sitting on the ground as static planes. Search for [Pilot] and check

 

[Pilot]

SystemType=PILOT_COCKPIT

PilotModelName=PilotMeteor

Position=0.0000,2.7710,0.9600

SeatModelName=seat_a-4

SeatPosition=0.0000,2.7000,0.5800

CanopyNodeName=Canopy

CanopyAnimationID=5 <- Add this line

.

.

 

I also found a couple of minor errors/tweaks if you want to fix them

 

[AircraftData]

EmptyMass=4846.0

.

.

.

CGPosition=0.0,0.50,0.0 <- minimize the bouncing at the start

OnGroundPitchAngle=1.25 <- Nose up a bit

 

Eventually I'll update a fix with a newer LOD to fix minor issues (Nose shock and main shocks) and with this fixes, a full Data ini revamp for the WOI standards may take a while. RL stuff in the way :(

[Wrench 9,847]

You guys are working way to hard ... the EAF Meteors ALREADY exist...check the d/ls section here, or at my site.. the only one not released, in the NF13.

 

hmm...well, they're SUPPOSED to be here...just went looking for them...I'll tighten my search after a little while

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+LloydNB 212]

Wrench

 

I was just putting the Royal Navy Skyraider Mk.1 into WoI for Suez and I remembered that you mentioned in another thread that the ASW bubble was available. Do you know where? I don't know if the RN operated in 1956 with the ASW bubble , but the French did on the Avenger.

 

Its interesting that the only ASW action during the Crisis was AGAINST the Americans. The French detected a US submarine amongst their fleet and forced it to the surface.

Edited March 31, 2008 by LloydNB

[Wrench 9,847]

I'll have to find them...it's a really crappy mod using Monty's A-1. We'd really need to use RazBams 4 seater (which I don't have)

It's also missing the additional verticle fins on the stabs, too.

 

Funny you should show a TBM-3E...I've one of them too. Needs a better skin (drawing rivets be a beeeeatch), and also lacks the little fins. Uses the standard 'body', so it's got the full greenhouse and turret.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[lazboy 1]

I've been flying a Saudi Tornado on a strike mission deep into the herat of Israel and am surprised at just how little AAA or israeli air defences there seem to be outside of the vicinity of airbases, especially at low level, air defence seems to rely of aerial interception. Is this a realistic reflection of actual israeli air defences or a failing of the game?

 

Lazboy

[Wrench 9,847]

Maybe for 1948, but in real life ... as in all the 3W game, Western Air Defenses are viturallly non existant. I mean, c'mon...Quad 50s????

 

Isreal got it first HAWKS in ~1963 (one of my books mentions a kill by them in that year); I'd assume they'd have all kinds of either US or Euro stuff. We all remember the CNN reports of US and Isreali HAWK and Patriot systems firing in Gulf War 1.

 

Things you can do:

 

add the folllowing western AD units:

 

US 90mm gun (at my site)

M-42 Duster

Bofors (from the WW2 mods)

Chapparels (4 different models in TMFs weapons pak, plus the standard, original version in the pasko pak)

Stinger site

 

As these are all set as "AAA", the game engine will add them at random places on the map. Don't be surprised if the Bofors gun dosen't show up...you might need to change the NationName= to "Isreal". I think it's RAF right now.

 

This is definately something that needs more research...other than HAWKS, what other units did they posess, from say 1950 on...

 

I haven't started it yet, but I hope to post of target area additons for generic AD site, probably using a moded layout from Nick Bell's NATO AD mod; probably add a few more AA units to defend the HAWK batteries.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[lazboy 1]

Maybe for 1948, but in real life ... as in all the 3W game, Western Air Defenses are viturallly non existant. I mean, c'mon...Quad 50s????

 

Isreal got it first HAWKS in ~1963 (one of my books mentions a kill by them in that year); I'd assume they'd have all kinds of either US or Euro stuff. We all remember the CNN reports of US and Isreali HAWK and Patriot systems firing in Gulf War 1.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

Well I certainly never envisaged being able to penetrate Israeli air defences at low level with such ease hit my intended target and return to base unmolested and I was never once painted by Hawks let alone anything as effective as a Patriot only some AAA. Had I flown a similar profile against an arab target it certainly would have been a different matter with tiers of air defences. Does a model of the Patriot exist as yet for use in WOI or WOE?

 

lazboy

[Wrench 9,847]

Let me rephrase that....they cannot, do not and will not appear on their own. There's no call-outs for them where needed. Chapparels, OTH or generic guns, since they are classed as "Static_AAA" or "Mobile_AAA" will appear where the targets ini calls for 'AAA'. Also, oddly enough, the Stinger Site is set as AAA, and will show based on start service year. ***

 

The HAWK batteries need to be PLACED, either in an existing target area, or creating their own sub-area within or next to an existing target area.

 

The quickest and easiest way, it to find a location via the huddata ini set to debug=TRUE, find the x/y coords and drop it in via a new target area in the targets ini. Add the 3 HAWK parts into the types ini, stir vigioursly, and hope they show up.

 

It's something I"m working on, right after I finish off a few other projects (like the SoCal map)

 

Patriot's do not exist at this time.

 

*** btw, methinks the 'Stinger' data in the TMF pak is way off, service years wise. ***

 

Wrench

kevin stein