Is WoE easier then LOMAC?

[Alexrey 0]

LOMAC is way too difficult for me. I haven't even passed a single mission, let alone survive a dogfight. So I think I'm gonna give up on it and try out Wings over Europe.

 

How different are the 2 from each other? Is it actually possible to evade a missile in WoE?

[sparkomatic 7]

yes...want to know how? send a private message to me...

[+Brainless 1]

LOMAC is way too difficult for me. I haven't even passed a single mission, let alone survive a dogfight. So I think I'm gonna give up on it and try out Wings over Europe.

 

How different are the 2 from each other? Is it actually possible to evade a missile in WoE?

 

They are different I think you might very well find WOE easier plus the game settings may help more.

[MigBuster 2,884]

LOMAC is way too difficult for me. I haven't even passed a single mission, let alone survive a dogfight. So I think I'm gonna give up on it and try out Wings over Europe.

 

How different are the 2 from each other? Is it actually possible to evade a missile in WoE?

 

 

Yeah WOEs a lot easier - out of the box it is not as hard core /realistic - so is designed to be fun . The AI are not as good and you are also dealing with 1960/70s soviet missiles - which can be spoofed and out manouvered (unlike modern ones)

 

Of course this can all be changed through mods when you have played it for a while and it becomes too easy.

[Mannie 21]

CoolHand is right. The SF serias are fun to play, and if you are already thinking of getting one, I'd go for Wings over Israel.

WoE is OK to.

You find LOMAC too hard?

You want to try and out manouver an Israeli Python 5 or american SideWinder X ?

Think again buddy. but on the other hand, if you have them on your jet, chances are you will get home in one peace.

[csb 12]

Missiles in WOE, WOI are not too hard to out manouvre - it seems one of the goals of the developers was to model the inconsistency of the missiles of the era.

 

The a/c controls are not as realistic so to control the jet, get lock & fire is not so cumbersome (yet not too simplified), very enjoyable - not so many buttons to press to do things.

 

The series still has plenty of realism, a/c flightmodels are great, fantastic graphics.

 

The radio chatter is fairly constant and often relates to your flight - really adds to the immersion (I always felt so lonely in Lomac).

 

Of course you have radio comms with your flight and Ground Control.

 

At the moment WOI has the best AI and graphics but others in the series are due to be upgraded.

Edited March 31, 2008 by csb

[SJPhantom 0]

LOMAC can be extremely difficult....The soviet aircraft are way better than anything the Americans have in this game. Your other flights in the sim will be lucky if they aren't out numbered.

 

WOE is much more enjoyable to me. At least I have a fighting chance.

[Alexrey 0]

The soviet aircraft are way better than anything the Americans have in this game. Your other flights in the sim will be lucky if they aren't out numbered.

 

People say that the best aircraft in LOMAC is the F-15, and I think in real life the Su-27 is supposed to be better than the F-15 (at least in a dogfight). So I don't know where you got your info from. And no I'm not Russain, so I'm not being biased :P

[sparkomatic 7]

- "and I think in real life the Su-27 is supposed to be better than the F-15 (at least in a dogfight)"

 

- Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. This particular view conflicts with my own, but it is perfectly plausible to feel that way. I always enjoy hearing / reading different perspectives on the matter, it is what makes an open society and certainly the Internet as a means of communication so amazing.

[Murphy'S 15]

the ai in woi is fairly good in the dogfight area

 

but now what is need to be adressed is the use of bvr by the ai in the game series. They do not use it.

Edited April 1, 2008 by Murphy'S

[sparkomatic 7]

Eh...BVR? For a MiG-21 with Atoll's? I mean there are a couple of MiG-23 with Apex on board in the game, but correct me if I am wrong...the time period and order of battle of the represented time and place does not support a lot of BVR opportunity.

 

Again, I am certainly not an expert in this game's particular segment of history (though it is very interesting).

[Murphy'S 15]

there are mig-23 with apex since woe

 

and they do not use it in bvr

 

and it's like your third and fourth wingmens, when you told them to engage ennemy when you are yourself able to engage them in bvr, they put they throttle at 100% to get in vwr and do not shoot theyr sparrow like you.

[sparkomatic 7]

Oh...wingmen engagements...thought you meant opposing forces

[MigBuster 2,884]

Eh...BVR? For a MiG-21 with Atoll's? I mean there are a couple of MiG-23 with Apex on board in the game, but correct me if I am wrong...the time period and order of battle of the represented time and place does not support a lot of BVR opportunity.

 

Again, I am certainly not an expert in this game's particular segment of history (though it is very interesting).

 

 

The only way I know to enable some BVR is by increasing the detect distance for each jet (should be some old threads on this). I havnt tried it myself so not sure if they will be firing AA-2s from 30 miles away .

 

[Doghouse 0]

I've been smacked numerous times by AI BVR MiG-23's. :-(

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

I've been smacked numerous times by AI BVR MiG-23's. :-(

So was I...

[+streakeagle 871]

Back to the original topic:

As many have already said, WOE is easier since it is intended to be a "lite" sim that can be played right out of the box by a newbie without spending a week or two studying a manual and doing training missions.

However, LOMAC is very scalable. You don't have to have it set to full hard settings.

 

But no matter what sim you play, if you oppose modern fighters with modern missiles using realistic and/or hard settings (hard settings are not always the same as realistic settings), then you will face the problem of not being able to evade missiles without careful use of ecm, chaff/flares, maneuvers (break turns/dives), beaming maneuvers), throttle setting (idle vs. afterburner), and/or environment (sun, hills/ground, clouds, other aircraft etc.).

Modern missiles are very maneuverable, very resistant to decoys/jamming, and much more reliable than Vietnam era missiles.

LOMAC missiles, especially Soviet ones, are very effective on max difficulty (perhaps unrealistically effective).

 

Until WOI, AIM-7E2 and later Sparrows and AIM-9L/M Sidewinders in the SFP1/WOV/WOE series were exceptionally effective as well against targets without chaff/flares and completely ineffective against targets with chaff/flares.

WOI and the rest of the SFP1/WOV/WOE series are being patched to provide a very good environment for gameplay/balance and realism: Sparrows miss quite a bit, but no more than historical figures and Sidewinders remain effective, but can be decoyed/confused by good tactics if spotted in time once again closely matching historical effectiveness.

 

I have never tweaked down the settings in LOMAC, so I don't know how well scalability works.

I simply learned to accept the fact that if I make any mistakes at all (such as allowing an Su-27 Flanker to detect me on radar at all), that I would die by AA-10 Alamo.

Personally, I prefer air combat prior to the F-15/AIM-7F/AIM-9L, so I have never spent enough time playing LOMAC to learn how to relaibly beat the AI in a head on at altitude where my F-15 can be easily detected and tracked by Su-27s.

Given that the original game was focused on Russian aircraft and continues to be developed by Russians, it is no surprise to me that the Russian aircraft and missiles perform the best in that game.

 

I want to be challenged by the opposition to an extended maneuvering fight (think F-105 vs MiG-17 and F-104 vs MiG-21), not have a lop sided turkey shoot like the Bekaa Valley (F-15/F-16 vs MiG-21/MiG-23).

Once you get to F-15/F-16 vs Su-27/MiG-29, almost everyone dies quickly.

Of course, there is no historical precedent for losses of F-15s in air combat (and F-16s have done almost as well), so perhaps LOMAC over estimates the reliability/effectiveness of Soviet equipment (or F-15s have never encountered well maintained frontline Soviet versions with well trained crews).

[JediMaster 451]

LOMAC's main problem is the AIM-120's odd modeling combined with the AI's perfect beaming ability--they can break lock by flying 90 degrees off from you in seconds, they just "know" exactly where you are and never make a mistake.

TK's sims don't have that.