Flying F-4Es from the most powerful nation on the planet

[MigBuster 2,884]

In theory an F-4 with some AIM-120s/R-77s and an AESA type radar would be a lethal opponent - in BVR you need all the kenetic energy you can get and the F-4 certainly can compete on that front.

 

The main (only) disadvantage the F-4 has is its RCS signature and its agility in a "guns only" fight.

 

A HMS should negate a lot of its disadvantage if using an AIM-9x/Python 5 etc for example.

 

Also the age of its airframe could be a factor now in regards to high G turning etc

 

 

 

 

Should add that any stealth fighter flown with proper tactics should take it out - on the basis that the F-4 wont see it.

Edited April 20, 2008 by CoolHand29

[MAKO69 186]

Lets take an F-86D, stick a state of the art radar and computers in her. slap a couple Aim-120s, and GPS bombs( not bobs sorry to any bobs out there) presto state of the art fighter, that ought to work 2

 

 

In theory an F-4 with some AIM-120s/R-77s and an AESA type radar would be a lethal opponent - in BVR you need all the kenetic energy you can get and the F-4 certainly can compete on that front.

 

The main (only) disadvantage the F-4 has is its RCS signature and its agility in a "guns only" fight.

 

A HMS should negate a lot of its disadvantage if using an AIM-9x/Python 5 etc for example.

 

Also the age of its airframe could be a factor now in regards to high G turning etc

 

 

 

 

Should add that any stealth fighter flown with proper tactics should take it out - on the basis that the F-4 wont see it.

Edited April 20, 2008 by MAKO69

[+Dave 2,322]

Um lets call that apples and oranges Mako69. You don't have like the F-4 at all but some people hold it in high regard. So leave them to it and quit shooting down what everyone has to say.

[MAKO69 186]

I love it

Um lets call that apples and oranges Mako69. You don't have like the F-4 at all but some people hold it in high regard. So leave them to it and quit shooting down what everyone has to say.

[+Dave 2,322]

I love it

 

 

Love what?

[MAKO69 186]

The F-4, I wish it was still in are inventory, but then there is somthing called progression.

 

forums should have heated and pasisonate discussions, thats what they are for right. As soon as a forum becomes censored it becomes a pulpit.

 

 

Love what?

[MAKO69 186]

I have an F-4 as my desk top, its 1 of the planes i fly in the sims the most.

The F-4, I wish it was still in are inventory, but then there is somthing called progression.

 

forums should have heated and pasisonate discussions, thats what they are for right. As soon as a forum becomes censored it becomes a pulpit.

[MigBuster 2,884]

Lets take an F-86D, stick a state of the art radar and computers in her. slap a couple Aim-120s, and GPS bombs( not bobs sorry to any bobs out there) presto state of the art fighter, that ought to work 2

 

Well if thats all a country has due to embargoes placed on it etc then why not!

 

The suggestion I made about the F-4 was practically done with the F-4F ICE bar the radar - The point you are missing is the avionics and weapons that are the defining factor now - and Iran may still be able to make something very good out of an old thing.

[kct 5]

Don't mention it, my Fujimi F-4E is in a sad state.

[+Dave 2,322]

The F-4, I wish it was still in are inventory, but then there is somthing called progression.

 

forums should have heated and pasisonate discussions, thats what they are for right. As soon as a forum becomes censored it becomes a pulpit.

 

 

Countries can only progress as far as the money can take them. Or as far as the government allows them to. Also there is the fact that countries like Turkey, and South Korea and Israel who have F-15's, F-16's and choose to keep the F-4 in their inventories. That says something right there.

[MAKO69 186]

All second string players in those airforces. Your missing the point if you use the F-4 as a first in apex fighter your toast.

Edited April 20, 2008 by MAKO69

[+Dave 2,322]

All second string players in those airforces. Your missing the point if you use the F-4 as a first in apex fighter your toast. quote name='USAFMTL' post='154173' date='Apr 20 2008, 07:42 AM']Countries can only progress as far as the money can take them. Or as far as the government allows them to. Also there is the fact that countries like Turkey, and South Korea and Israel who have F-15's, F-16's and choose to keep the F-4 in their inventories. That says something right there.

 

 

If you go up a few posts you will see I said the same thing.

[MAKO69 186]

your quote got in my reply hit the wrong button

If you go up a few posts you will see I said the same thing.

 

 

fixed it

your quote got in my reply hit the wrong button

[eraser_tr 29]

The fact that it's a 50 year old plane and it's still going strong says alot for the phantom. Still, that's 50 years, there is only so much you can do to a 50 year old design to keep it up to date.

 

The real question: If you had to choose between the superbug and a modernized phantom, what's a better choice? Electronics, agility and no speed, or speed, ok electronics and no agility?

[MigBuster 2,884]

The fact that it's a 50 year old plane and it's still going strong says alot for the phantom. Still, that's 50 years, there is only so much you can do to a 50 year old design to keep it up to date.

 

The real question: If you had to choose between the superbug and a modernized phantom, what's a better choice? Electronics, agility and no speed, or speed, ok electronics and no agility?

 

 

 

Superbug is slower - but should have a better range, new airframe and a much lower RCS. In an A-A role ive seen pics with them carrying 10 x AMRAAMs + 2 AIM9s - so if you can afford it. The lower RCS should make it more survivable against SAMs etc.

 

 

Luckily I expect its going to be a while till any Superhornet users come face to face with any 5th Gen jets anyway - unless Aus declares war on the US for not watching Neighbours - or something

[+Erik 1,812]

forums should have heated and pasisonate discussions, thats what they are for right. As soon as a forum becomes censored it becomes a pulpit.

 

 

There's a fine line here that many get confused about.

 

Debates and discussions about topics that do not violate our useage policy are acceptable platforms for tame or heated discussions. However, we fairly discourage discussions about politics, religion, personal attacks, and board flamming with objectionable material in general. Our forum rules are visible for all to read and review at any time. ::LINK TO FORUM RULES ::

 

I do NOT consider that censorship by any definition. I do, however, believe it is participating in a responsible adult atmosphere which promotes positive interaction between the diverse and many backgrounds of people who visit our community.

 

In general: Debate topics not people.

 

Should you not agree with the above please feel free to start paying the bills around here and we'll consider your advice and direction.

 

Thanks for understanding and helping to support a healthy vibrant community.

 

Erik

[Stick 773]

Hear, Hear.

Besides I just cant believe everybody's beating the bag over propaganda.

The most powerful nation in the world!!! Absolute poppycock.

[+Dave 2,322]

there is only so much you can do to a 50 year old design to keep it up to date.

 

Has anyone told that to the B-52 yet?

[+Dave 2,322]

Hear, Hear.

Besides I just cant believe everybody's beating the bag over propaganda.

The most powerful nation in the world!!! Absolute poppycock.

 

Oh I thnk we have moved from that poppycock to the F-4 in general. I can say the Iranians do not have the stuff the Turks, the Israeli's, or the JASDF have in there F-4's.

[Stick 773]

Or the MiG-21's.

 

Hoo Daimn!!!

 

Thats how my airforce gets its numbers.

And pilot attrition.

[Stick 773]

With the right tactics the Phantom is the Phantom.

But how many did they lose against Iraq.

I think that would be a good gauge of their training and tactics, Iraq being an equal opponent at that time.

[eraser_tr 29]

that's a pretty safe bet. But IIRC they have bought migs and sukhois so they may very well be using the good stuff for attempted air superiority and use the F-4s as bomb trucks like we're talking about.

 

So what have they done to B-52s to keep them competative?

[MAKO69 186]

What escourts a B-52 not an F-4

Has anyone told that to the B-52 yet?

[+Dave 2,322]

So what have they done to B-52s to keep them competative?

 

Dude I am at the Oklahoma City Air Logistics Center, (Tinker AFB) they do depot level maint and upgrades to entire B-52 fleet. Its more than still competative. If you haven't noticed, it can carry JDAM's, AGM-142's, Harpoons, also it have has new ECM suites. It isn't your B-52 of of the 1960's.

[+Dave 2,322]

What escourts a B-52 not an F-4

 

 

No one escorts a B-52. Wrong era my friend.