Voodoo Over Europe and Madagascar

[+ojcar]

Well, if you are armed wid AIM-9B, you must search your target tail, like it or not. It implies a dogfight, just the thing we must avoid. With the Falcons is even worst. The only option is the nuclear Falcon and the Genie....If you want to fight. If not, you don't need any scort, and your defense are your electronics, chaff, etc, or penetrate at very low alt. If they can't see you, can't intercept you!

[bradders]

what a plane what a noise can remember these flying at airshows in the 60's.Cant wait to see one fly again on my pc.

http://www.airliners.net/search/ type in voodoo and up comes 18 pages of them

[Jug]

what a plane what a noise can remember these flying at airshows in the 60's.Cant wait to see one fly again on my pc.

http://www.airliners.net/search/ type in voodoo and up comes 18 pages of them

 

Canadian Voodoo drivers would tell tales about real exciting formation takoffs because the CF-101 afterburner had a 0.3 second delay between the pilot selecting afteburner and the actual burner light. Imagine on an icy runway (common in Canada), lined up on only half of the runway (your wingman has the other half), head nod, brakes release, throttle advance to burner and you are dancing on the rudders to keep the aircraft lined up on the runway with the burners lighting up when it suited them fighting you all the way. Hoooorah. Even with engines fairly close to the aircraft centerline, one engine in burner and one engine spooling up with only a slight difference in light up time and you have a huge beast to control with little or no airflow across the rudder to assist you. Throw night and inclement weather in and you have an accident looking for a place to happen. Fortunately, as the Canuks say, they are absolutely great pilots and it is no problem.

[Lexx_Luthor]

ojcar::

Well, if you are armed wid AIM-9B, you must search your target tail, like it or not. It implies a dogfight, just the thing we must avoid. With the Falcons is even worst.

No dogfight, just humble high speed tail chase. Recall that the PVO interceptors want mostly to chase bombers. If MiGs and Sus turn to avoid Voodoo AIM-9Bs, the bombers get through. Now, there may be more interceptors waiting further along, but there should be more flights of Voodoos as well.

 

Once the MiG-21F and (original) Su-7 day fighters are available, they have the speed to also fly multiple flights in contest the multiple flights of Voodoos, and so protect interceptors targeting the bombers, much like Bf-109s were used to fly cover for the more heavily armed Fw-190s targeting the 8th AF bombers. But once the MiG-21/Su-7 start flying, so can F-105 which, if given some thought, would make a brutal penetration fighter to replace Voodoo, or Voodoo can be upgraded. There was a plan for J-79 Voodos there somewhere. Another possibilty is the F-110, although somewhat later than F-105.

 

If not, you don't need any scort, and your defense are your electronics, chaff, etc, or penetrate at very low alt. If they can't see you, can't intercept you!

That's something I'm working around, and its fascinating since the real thing, like Wings Over Europe, thankfully never happened. High altitude penetration is always desirable over low altitude, assuming air defenses have been sufficiently destroyed or neutralized. The RAF was successful in combating the Luftwaffe in night electronic warfare without having to retreat, tail between leggs, to low altitude penetration. If SAC had to actually go in and fight in the 1950s, especially over a long period of time, they would place Prime focus on electronic warfare over and above all else, as they would use the RAF experience as a model. Mosquito escorts were essential for the RAF against the Luftwaffe, so even with electronic warfare, escorts may still be needed.

[+ojcar]

Mosquito were used as pathfinders and as intruders (patrolling certain German areas as airfields), not as classical bomber scorts.

By the way, the Voodoo couldn't scort the bombers all the way. A counter measure could be a first wave of Russian interceptors attacking the scorts (forcing to jettison fuel tanks) and other waves attacking the bombers (an old German tactic used against P-47s).

Voodoos could be used as intruders instead scorts (as F-105s). A first wave of intruders in very low alt penetration attacking PVO airfields and a second wave with your strategic bombers, but I advise you to safe ALL your fighters. You'll need them because surely the Soviet bombers are on their way to USA as well...

 

In fact, was the B-52 the plane that stopped the "penetration fighter" developpement. Not a single purely scort fighter was designed after the B-52.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird]

Maybe it was asked before but do you have a list of Voodoo version you will release?! RF-101 and ??? some twinseater?!

[Dagger1]

Hi everybody..

 

Wow amazing bird Dave, keep up the good work man, I was waiting for this jet since I bought WOV......

Long ago I have seen a documentary about the voodoo (I dont recall on wich channel), it says that the voodoo had flown over vietnam "in the early years of the war" it was escorting high altitude bombers "they didnt mention B-52 but I assumed its the B-52 they r talking about...!", another role was the recec....

 

I think the Canadians had used it as a long range interceptor or somethin like that.... am not an expert, but all I have to say is that I need to read more about it...!!

 

Thanks agian DAVE

[Lexx_Luthor]

Thanks ojcar! In addition to flying harassment over night fighter airfields, after the summer of 1944, the Mosquito's centimeter radar allowed it to perform interceptions against Luftwaffe night fighters, picking them out from the bomber stream. NAVY F3D Skyknights and USAF F-94s performed a roughly similar escort role over North Korea, interfering with MiG-15s that worked with searchlights against B-29s. Equally fascinating were tactics developed by MiG pilots to entrap the NAVY and USAF night fighters, so this was certainly another interesting night air war, yet far smaller than Bomber Command's in WW2, that can be looked at for some ideas.

 

Agreed about the distances. Range is the greatest problem facing SAC escorts of the period. The distance from England to Berlin is insignificant compared to what SAC has to fly deep into Soviet lands. However, if escorts can cover at least some of the distance, like P-47s in Europe, the escorts will be used.

 

I'm thinking that 1950s single seat Soviet all weather interceptors, never mind day fighters, were at best useful against very large non-manuevering bombers at night, and even the early radar equipped interceptors would not be overwhelmingly successful against night escorts, although the Yak-25 may be another story, and was probably the best all weather interceptor for a brief period in the mid 1950s. What happened in Korea tells me that SAC would shift to night operations after the MiG-15 and its successors became available, unless the Soviet war machine was sufficiently damaged to keep MiG-15 from becoming numerous...ie...the 8th AF managed to "beat" the timing of Me-262 and its problematic engine development.

 

The fighters reserved to meet any Soviet bomber counter attacks would already be flying for Air Defense Command, still based in Ussia, and not based in offensive SAC airfields surrounding Russia. Also, I'm thinking that the rather ineffective Soviet bomber force at the time, and their factories, would be among the first targets in a SAC offensive.

[+ojcar]

Very good points, Lexx!. But I think fear is a very powerful weapon.... Think about it. Imagine the amount of damage that only 5 or 8 nuclear bombers can make

Better two deffensive lines: the first one surrounding URSS, the second defending USA itself. I don't think fighters of any kind would be used offensively (except as harassement of enemy bomber bases)

[Lexx_Luthor]

Well we have to think of something, since having escort fighters of some kind would make things more interesting in a game.

 

Here's an interesting quote I found about the Korean War. I'm thinking that LeMay wanted to test the much longer range F-84s in combat as escort fighters, even if F-86s had the range to help in this limited case. That's just a guess of mine of course.

 

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Lt. Gen Stratemeyer thought that the F-84s were no match for the MiG-15s and preferred the Sabre for the task but he was under pressure of the temperamental SAC commander, General Curtiss LeMay, who wanted to see the Thunderjets of the 27th FEW acting as escorts. This is an unusual episode since FEAF was distinct from SAC and under the direct control of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. SAC continued to control all the bomber forces in the ZI (Zone of Interior - i.e., the United States).

 

Stratemeyer gave in and crossed his fingers in hope that the 334th FIS will be enough to keep the MiGs away from the bombers. Nothing remotely similar would happen in what turned out to be one of the worst USAF operations up to that date.

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~ http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_315.shtml

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Most interesting is an old study I found (locate?), I think roundabout late 1940s or early 1950s, concluding that if the Soviets hunkered down, nucular weapons alone might not have been sufficient to force a surrender. The damage done by nukes is NOT so "amazing" after all, at least if the enemy is prepared for it, both psychologically and physically. Dresden was basically "nuked" by conventional bombing, but only the Allied armies could force a German surrender.

[fallout3]

This F-101 seems so sweet!

[+Soulfreak]

just found this.

it was in 1961, Fürstenfeldbruck Ab

 

 

 

The ®F-101 is really a beauty...

[Lexx_Luthor]

That's a faxinating photo. KB-50J? You can just see the jet exhaust, J-47s, flyin chickens in the barnyard. I'm desperately looking for a way to let SAC shoehorn those jets into B-50 a few years earlier, to get better preformance over Siberia.

 

KB-50J ~> http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b50_13.html

[+ErikGen]

Pit update ...

 

RF-101C ...

 

... and F-101C.

[Lexx_Luthor]

Wow, just...wow!!

[mppd]

This really is very, very nice. I can't wait for all these Voodoo goodies. Did you guys say about two weeks.....

 

Mike D.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird]

Awesome!

[+Stary]

Looks VERY impressive!