Georgia moves against separatists

[+Gepard 10,668]

The storyline of the conflict. ( surely not complete)

 

-Back in mid 19th century Russia occupied the Caucasus area. A lot of uprisings were suppresed by russian military.

-October 1917 revolution in Russia. Forced by the circumstances Lenin opend the way to independence of peoples of former Russian Empire.

-In 1918 some caucasus peoples (re)founded their own states. Georgia was one of it.

- 1918 to 1922 civil war in Russia

-Up to 1921 or 22 all of this "white" republics were blown away by military red forces.

-In 1922 the now "red" republics became part of the USSR.

- 1925 Stalin, a Georgian, became head of the USSR

- The exact date i havent found, but Stalin cutted off South Ossetia from Russian Federation and included it into Georgian Socialist Republic.

-1942 german forces reached the caucasus region and tried to start an anti russian revolution. They had only minor success, but Stalin banned hundret thousends of people to sibiria.

 

-1991 the Soviet Union is history. The GUS is founded. Yelzin offered to the peoples of the formes USSR so much independence as they want. As result Georgia is reborn.

 

But Georgia is not only the home of Georgians. There are a lot of other peoples (Abchasians, Ossetians, etc) which also attemped to reach their independence, but the Georgians denied their attempts.

 

-1992 in South Ossetia elections were held and over 90% of the Ossetians voted for independence from Georgia. Georgia sent police forces and the first war broke out. In the same year the GUS achieved a casefire and put in "peace keeping" forces.

From this point South Ossetia was independend from Georgia.

 

- 2004 elections in Georgia. After elections Saakashvilli became leader of Georgia (Revolution of Roses).

- 2007 Saakashvili sent his police forces against political demonstrations in Tiflis. Reelection was forged, by statements of opposition, by statements of EU and UN officials. US politicians claimed free and fair elections.

-2008 tensions in the region raised. georgian attempts to regain lost territories. Political missions of european politicians failed.

- night from 07.August 2008 to 08. August 2008, georgian forces opend the fire on south ossetian and "peace keeping forces"positions. Georgian forces started to invade South ossetia, tried to blitz against their capital Swinggali.

-By high noon 08. August 2008 the town Swinggali is nearly encirceld by georgian forces. Georgian artillery shell the town mercyless. Georgian airstikes destroy the hospital of the town. Over 1000 civilists die (be carefull with numbers, in this region of the world the guys have very big balls)

-Ossetian president cried for urgend help, the russians start to air support South Ossetia and by end of the day the georgian invading forces were pushed away.

-By the end of the day russian T-90, mobile artillery and other forces reached South Ossetia.

-Today Saakashvili tells the world, that he is innocent victim of russian invasion.

 

To be continued

[Erwin_Hans 6]

This is terrible! How can Russia attack an american state and Bush do nothing! Come on!!!

Now we nuke Russia!This is the WWII nuclear war!

 

Some one said on Youtube this afternoon.

[eraser_tr 29]

That is the sad reality of many americans. They are so ignorant of the world they don't know Georgia is also a country.

 

I see 2 ways this pans out:

 

If any other countries get involved directly, this becomes world war 3.

 

If we stay out of it and keep everyone else out of it, it'll pan out exactly like India-Pakistan-Bangladesh in 1972.

[+whiteknight06604 932]

The storyline of the conflict. ( surely not complete)

 

-Back in mid 19th century Russia occupied the Caucasus area. A lot of uprisings were suppresed by russian military.

-October 1917 revolution in Russia. Forced by the circumstances Lenin opend the way to independence of peoples of former Russian Empire.

-In 1918 some caucasus peoples (re)founded their own states. Georgia was one of it.

- 1918 to 1922 civil war in Russia

-Up to 1921 or 22 all of this "white" republics were blown away by military red forces.

-In 1922 the now "red" republics became part of the USSR.

- 1925 Stalin, a Georgian, became head of the USSR

- The exact date i havent found, but Stalin cutted off South Ossetia from Russian Federation and included it into Georgian Socialist Republic.

-1942 german forces reached the caucasus region and tried to start an anti russian revolution. They had only minor success, but Stalin banned hundret thousends of people to sibiria.

 

-1991 the Soviet Union is history. The GUS is founded. Yelzin offered to the peoples of the formes USSR so much independence as they want. As result Georgia is reborn.

 

But Georgia is not only the home of Georgians. There are a lot of other peoples (Abchasians, Ossetians, etc) which also attemped to reach their independence, but the Georgians denied their attempts.

 

-1992 in South Ossetia elections were held and over 90% of the Ossetians voted for independence from Georgia. Georgia sent police forces and the first war broke out. In the same year the GUS achieved a casefire and put in "peace keeping" forces.

From this point South Ossetia was independend from Georgia.

 

- 2004 elections in Georgia. After elections Saakashvilli became leader of Georgia (Revolution of Roses).

- 2007 Saakashvili sent his police forces against political demonstrations in Tiflis. Reelection was forged, by statements of opposition, by statements of EU and UN officials. US politicians claimed free and fair elections.

-2008 tensions in the region raised. georgian attempts to regain lost territories. Political missions of european politicians failed.

- night from 07.August 2008 to 08. August 2008, georgian forces opend the fire on south ossetian and "peace keeping forces"positions. Georgian forces started to invade South ossetia, tried to blitz against their capital Swinggali.

-By high noon 08. August 2008 the town Swinggali is nearly encirceld by georgian forces. Georgian artillery shell the town mercyless. Georgian airstikes destroy the hospital of the town. Over 1000 civilists die (be carefull with numbers, in this region of the world the guys have very big balls)

-Ossetian president cried for urgend help, the russians start to air support South Ossetia and by end of the day the georgian invading forces were pushed away.

-By the end of the day russian T-90, mobile artillery and other forces reached South Ossetia.

-Today Saakashvili tells the world, that he is innocent victim of russian invasion.

 

To be continued

 

while I won't dispute what you have said I believe it may be true,I also believe Russia has ultrier motives for their action and it's not a noble one.they have been sabre rattleing for a while now and this situation just plays into Russian plans.Weather or not Georga is the agressor they are a much lesser threat to Western european and American intersests than Russia is.I'm not very knowlgable in the area but unless the UN or some other body previpos to the Russian "peace keepers" intervention recognized the breakaway region as legitament then Georga has every right to exert control in a region that is technicaly theirs.Puttin and his pupet are just as if not more corupt as the Georgan goverment.I really believe that with no good guys directly involved in the situation intenational law should be the judge and as far as I can see untill some independent body(UN) declares South Ossetia a legitament independent nation Georga has a right to reestabilish "order"These are opinions based on my limited knowlede so if anyone has any facts to add to my understand please let me know I have no trouble changing my opinion in the face of new information.The key pointr seems more like Russia being upset having a US ally and a posible NATO member so close.Russia may be a lot different than the USSR but Russia has for hundreds of years been overly paranoid(sometimes rightly so)of their neibors.

Edited August 9, 2008 by whiteknight06604

[Erwin_Hans 6]

That is the sad reality of many americans. They are so ignorant of the world they don't know Georgia is also a country.

 

I see 2 ways this pans out:

 

If any other countries get involved directly, this becomes world war 3.

 

If we stay out of it and keep everyone else out of it, it'll pan out exactly like India-Pakistan-Bangladesh in 1972.

 

 

Yes....let's begin the WW3

 

LOL...It you wish first die.

[deep 5]

It seems to me that the people of Ossetia really just want to be Ossetians, and siding with one power or the other is a matter of survival rather than patriotism.

[Roopod 0]

That is the sad reality of many americans. They are so ignorant of the world they don't know Georgia is also a country.

 

Probably no more ignorant then other countries from what I've seen. South Ossetia has the support of the Russian government which has provided S. Ossetians with Russian passports. I previously posted some information that gives some insight into what the overall strategy is that's guiding the recent tactical moves by the Russians. Just in case anyone wants to know the rest of the Geopolitical story here.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Roopod

[+Muesli 2,154]

Yes....let's begin the WW3

 

LOL...It you wish first die.

 

Well.... maybe it is me....

I cannot see anything funny in what is happening there!

In conflicts like these, it only takes a little hunch to guess who will be the real

victims here: civilians.

Do not care about ANY political reason, background or historical blah-blah,

it is just another stupid caveman game from parties that think this is the

only solution.

 

Yes, I am irritated by the tone of some who are debating this conflict! See if you

still are that funny if you been in a war.

[eraser_tr 29]

The UN won't be able to do jack with us protecting georgia in the security council, and russia with their own veto power. It will get tossed to the General Assembly exactly like in '72. Might have better luck now than then

 

So unless there's a diplomatic miracle and everyone is ok with neutral UN peacekeepers to cool things down, this pans out in one of those two ways.

[Erwin_Hans 6]

Well.... maybe it is me....

I cannot see anything funny in what is happening there!

In conflicts like these, it only takes a little hunch to guess who will be the real

victims here: civilians.

Do not care about ANY political reason, background or historical blah-blah,

it is just another stupid caveman game from parties that think this is the

only solution.

 

Yes, I am irritated by the tone of some who are debating this conflict! See if you

still are that funny if you been in a war.

 

Слава России!

 

The Georgia frist broken peace in the beginning of Olympic games.

 

They must pay enough for this barbarian act.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Erwin_Hans

[Erwin_Hans 6]

The UN won't be able to do jack with us protecting georgia in the security council, and russia with their own veto power. It will get tossed to the General Assembly exactly like in '72. Might have better luck now than then

 

So unless there's a diplomatic miracle and everyone is ok with neutral UN peacekeepers to cool things down, this pans out in one of those two ways.

 

What Russian did is what US did in Iraq Opration Desert Strom.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

The Georgia frist broken peace in the beginning of Olympic games.

 

They must pay enough for this barbarian act.

Come on! Communist party's show is broken?! How saaaaad!

This is disgusting to read. You seem to care only about your Munich 1936 reenactement...

 

By the way, regarding current events. It's a nonsense to call Georgia "agressor".

Let's go back to basics: Internationaly recognized borders of Georgia do include the South Ossetia region. Is this an agression for a sovereign state to claim sovereignty on its territory? According to international Law, it isn't. Georgia is perfectly right to do what she is doing. Otherwise, South Ossetia would have been part of the UNe The real violation here is Russian: they do mix in a thing that is not their business.

Georgia is not a perfect democracy, but it's by far better than most of its neighbours.

[Stick 773]

Power and Responsibilty go hand in hand,

'War is Hell.'

Women will tell you its even stupid.

At times like these I'm inclined to agree.

[eraser_tr 29]

Except the US/NATO in desert storm had the UN security council and the greater international communities blessing. And Kuwait wasn't internationally recognized as part of Iraq.

 

The pakistan 1972 analogy is more accurate. Ossetia, like bangladesh was recgonized as part of pakistan, but wanted independance, Russia, like india invaded the province wanting independance. The alignment of powers is also identical, the US is backing georgia as it backed pakistan. Georgia is accused of doing exactly what pakistan did with operation searchlight.

Edited August 9, 2008 by eraser_tr

[Roopod 0]

What gets me is the label "Peace Keeping Forces" given to the Russian invasion forces moving into Georgia. The Georgian forces were pursueing S. Ossetian rebel forces into South Ossetia which is internationally recognized as a territory within Georgia. Seems like now the real invaders are in fact Russian. The Russians are targeting positions and airfields within Georgia. For reasons probably linked to the previous stories I've linked to.

[MigBuster 2,875]

while I won't dispute what you have said I believe it may be true,I also believe Russia has ultrier motives for their action and it's not a noble one.they have been sabre rattleing for a while now and this situation just plays into Russian plans.Weather or not Georga is the agressor they are a much lesser threat to Western european and American intersests than Russia is.I'm not very knowlgable in the area but unless the UN or some other body previpos to the Russian "peace keepers" intervention recognized the breakaway region as legitament then Georga has every right to exert control in a region that is technicaly theirs.Puttin and his pupet are just as if not more corupt as the Georgan goverment.I really believe that with no good guys directly involved in the situation intenational law should be the judge and as far as I can see untill some independent body(UN) declares South Ossetia a legitament independent nation Georga has a right to reestabilish "order"These are opinions based on my limited knowlede so if anyone has any facts to add to my understand please let me know I have no trouble changing my opinion in the face of new information.The key pointr seems more like Russia being upset having a US ally and a posible NATO member so close.Russia may be a lot different than the USSR but Russia has for hundreds of years been overly paranoid(sometimes rightly so)of their neibors.

 

By what we know Georgias actions are not acceptable - did Argentina have to right to invade the Falklands militarily against the will of a resident UK population? - NO

 

Every government is corrupt and every government has its own agenders - for example how did George Bush keep a straight face when he told Russia not to invade a sovereign country?

 

From what I can see Russia is protecting its own people and is in the right. (as long as it stays in SO)

 

Although provoked by the SO rebels - no excuse for launching an offensive and shooting at peacekeepers etc! - at the moment I would say the Georgian president is not fit to be in office - is he a puppet or a muppet - i cant decide!

[Roopod 0]

By what we know Georgias actions are not acceptable - did Argentina have to right to invade the Falklands militarily against the will of a resident UK population? - NO

 

A more accurate example would be - did the Union North have a right to fight or invade the Confederate South? Remember South Ossetia is inside the recognized territory of Georgia. The International Community doesn't recognize South Ossetia as an independent or sovereign nation.

[MigBuster 2,875]

A more accurate example would be - did the Union North have a right to fight or invade the Confederate South? Remember South Ossetia is inside the recognized territory of Georgia. The International Community doesn't recognize South Ossetia as an independent or sovereign nation.

 

 

You are right but international law is another thing that seems to be banded about conveniently to suit some - although it wasnt used as much before going into Iraqs internationally reconised borders I must admit .

 

Russia not only has the green light from that incursion (after all if its okay for us to do it then it must be okay) - but if the SO population is majority Russian then they have full justification AFIACS to protect their people.

[Stick 773]

Except the US/NATO in desert storm had the UN security council and the greater international communities blessing. And Kuwait wasn't internationally recognized as part of Iraq.

 

The pakistan 1972 analogy is more accurate. Ossetia, like bangladesh was recgonized as part of pakistan, but wanted independance, Russia, like india invaded the province wanting independance. The alignment of powers is also identical, the US is backing georgia as it backed pakistan. Georgia is accused of doing exactly what pakistan did with operation searchlight.

 

1971 baby!

And we didnt invade anybody. The war was waiting to happen;it was the product of enlightened colonial administrative wisdom(thats why the honkees supported us in the Security Council)

Pakistan began the offensive(pre-emptive air-strikes on Dec 3;western front). We had no choice but to sock it to them in the balls.

Whats actually funny is that by backing the wrong side(thanks to Kissinger) the yanks have their own little monster

Edited August 9, 2008 by Stick

[+Gepard 10,668]

Also, the russian troops in South Ossetia are members of the GUS (Gemeinschaft unabhängiger Staaten, i think CIS is the english term, but i'm not sure.You can compare the GUS with the Commonwealth.) "peace keeping forces". They were sent in by the Council of the GUS, not by the russian government. They kept the peace since 1992.

 

The main problem is, that the NATO invasion of the Kosovo in 1999 now gives the russian government all arguments to intervene in South Ossetia. If you remember, without backing of the UN the NATO started a military operation to push out the Serbs of the Kosovo. The aim was to protect the Kosovo Albaniens. As far as good, but the Kosovo was serbian heartland since more than 1000 years, long before the first Albaniens imigrated into this land. Today the Kosovo is an independent contry.

Compare the situation with South Ossetia.

The "owner by law" of this land, the Georgians, started a military operation against a "minority" (I set minority in "" because in South Ossetia the Ossetians are the majority). The same had done the Serbs in Kosovo ( in Kosovo the Albanians were the majority). With the same right the NATO protected the Kosovo Albaniens, the Russians now can protect the Ossetians. With the same right the NATO bombed Belgrad the russians can bomb Tiflis.

The NATO action against Serbia had opened the way for russian strikes against Georgia. It are two sides of one medal. Exactly the same.

If you vote against the russian action against Georgia, you must vote against the NATO action in Kosovo.Unfortunatly.

 

I dont write it to support Russia. You will not hear a "Slava Rossia" from my lips. But you will also not hear "Viva Georgia".

It is a god dam situation, caused by stupid politicians, who manipulate law and order for their own favor. And this on all sides.

The bad boy here is Saakashvili, but his caucasian counterparts are not much better. Of course Russia has vital interessts in Caucasus, but Europe and America too. The worst thing would be that the actions of caucasian blockheads bring back a new East-West confrontation.

 

We have in Germany a proverb that fits perfect for the Caucasus region. "Wer solche Freunde hat braucht keine Feinde."

Word by word translated: "Who has such friends needs no enemies."

[+Muesli 2,154]

Слава России!

 

The Georgia frist broken peace in the beginning of Olympic games.

 

They must pay enough for this barbarian act.

 

 

Man, are you really trying to bust my nuts??

 

You might be Pete almighty with modding skills and all, but what gives

you the right to react in such a retarded way?

I am picking no side in the conflict, and it seems the only

grudge you have is that at some point someone has disturbed

you enjoying the Olympics?????

DAMN, you are dense! I can understand most points of view ventilated

in this thread, and on this board, but you... you have serious problems!

I suggest you got to a dump shop and buy a nice uniform, go to an airfield

and buy a ticket to Georgia. Walk the walk, talk the talk, come back in one

piece and we talk further. until then, please refrain from comments which

are below standard. You really piss me off, and I bet I'm not the only one.

 

 

 

Muesli

Edited August 9, 2008 by muesli

[Silverbolt 104]

Click on this link: Visit this website

 

Scroll down for english to the "World Top Oil" graphic of highest producers. Russia's current economic and military alliance may be one reason why it would push to link through this land bridge that Chechnya, North-South Ossetia, and Georgia occupy. Does anyone know of the status of the Chechnya war? North-South Ossetia have groups who speak an Iranian dialect. Can anyone see an overall strategic goal here? Georgia seems to be sharing the same fate that Poland did in 1939. Except we all know what happened after that, don't we?

 

Orientation link: Go Here

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks to god Brazil haven't to invade anyone and start with this kind hostilities to take our Oil....

all it's abou Oil....idk, but people are acting as nobody saw this before....we have a bunch of examples so i think anobody is saint...if this happen for oil, i'm not courious to see what people will do for food and water.

at least....you can't drink gasoline and eat plastic

Edited August 9, 2008 by Silverbolt

[MigBuster 2,875]

well there goes that thread then - Muesli can you keep OT mate and stop taking things literally - I dont think English is his first language - maybe he meant that NATO membership would be denied to such people who launch such an offensive on civies?

[Silverbolt 104]

well there goes that thread then - Muesli can you keep OT mate and stop taking things literally - I dont think English is his first language - maybe he meant that NATO membership would be denied to such people who launch such an offensive on civies?

FC posted about it while ago, whe should bump hes post.

[+Muesli 2,154]

Sorry guys,

 

People thinking war is a game really make me mad.....

You'll hear nothing from me on this subject anymore.