MIG 25 SPEED

[Caesar 305]

@FLOGGER23

 

Just a note on your original question: altitude is a big factor in how fast a plane can go. Take the F-14 or F-15, for instance, both have a top speed of roughly 2.5M, but on the deck, both aircraft are limited to about 1.2M. The Foxbat, while it can hit ~2.83M at altitude, at lower levels its not going to have that lightning fast speed. 5,000 feet is relatively low, so you're not getting anywhere near 2M.

[MigBuster 2,884]

@FLOGGER23

 

Just a note on your original question: altitude is a big factor in how fast a plane can go. Take the F-14 or F-15, for instance, both have a top speed of roughly 2.5M, but on the deck, both aircraft are limited to about 1.2M. The Foxbat, while it can hit ~2.83M at altitude, at lower levels its not going to have that lightning fast speed. 5,000 feet is relatively low, so you're not getting anywhere near 2M.

 

 

 

Is that right? Never seen the F-14A/D quoted with a high alt speed over M2.35 tbh

[Fubar512 1,350]

Is that right? Never seen the F-14A/D quoted with a high alt speed over M2.35 tbh

 

Max operational speed is 2.35, though one Tomcat (in clean configuration) is reported to have hit Mach 2.485 at 43,000 feet.

[Caesar 305]

As Fubar stated, Operational speed is 2.35M, though test-wise the aircraft was pushed to beyond 2.4M and the aircraft has reached very close to 2.5M. Also, because of the possibility of RAMPS failure (the ramps that interrupt the flow of supersonic air into the engine), that speed was reduced again, or recommended at least, not to pass 1.88M.

 

Either way, my objective was to explain that neither the Foxbat nor the Tomcat or Eagle can get close to their recorded high-speeds at low altitude, so there's really not a problem with Flogger23's Foxbat, he's just flying it too low to hit those high numbers.

[jaeger_301 0]

That Iraqi Foxbat was locked on by multiple US aircraft that were awaiting permission to fire that never came. Not many people realize that.

 

Vs B-52s it would have been a serious threat at altitude. At 5000ft? Meat on the table more often than not for an average Western fighter jock.

 

Check out "MIG Pilot", defecting soviet MIG-25 pilot Victor Belenko gave it's pros and cons pretty well in it's intercept role.

 

Viktor Belenko flew several simulatur engaments vs USAF pilots, one engagment was he in a MIG 25 vs a F15. up to 60 k the F15 was superior and over 80k the F15 had no chance.

 

Jaeger

[jaeger_301 0]

Impossible scenario. A skilled Foxbat pilot wouldn't engage under those circumstances.

 

there happend a Mig25 vs F15 engagement in the 1st gulf war at low level and the Mif25 got killed.

though, this doesn t prove you are wrong

 

 

Jaeger

[MigBuster 2,884]

Viktor Belenko flew several simulatur engaments vs USAF pilots, one engagment was he in a MIG 25 vs a F15. up to 60 k the F15 was superior and over 80k the F15 had no chance.

 

Jaeger

 

In regards to handling abilities I can believe the MiG-25 was much better over 80k - The Iranian F-14s just used to lock an AIM-54 onto Iraqi/Soviet MiG-25s - they then used their high speed to run for it :)

[kct 5]

Went beyond 2.5, and hit the wall faster than I thought. The moment I turned around I got turned into a fireball...by a stray AMRAAM.

Edited September 3, 2008 by kct

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Viktor Belenko flew several simulatur engaments vs USAF pilots, one engagment was he in a MIG 25 vs a F15. up to 60 k the F15 was superior and over 80k the F15 had no chance.

 

Jaeger

 

I remember those pages quite well. Everyone that makes the MIG-25 seem like the be all and end all should get ahold of that book and realize that the Foxbat was a pure interceptor. It was almost helpless under most circumstances when matched against most contemporary Western fighters at altitudes that were typical of air combat in the late 60s to mid 70s.

[+Jug 99]

Viktor Belenko flew several simulatur engaments vs USAF pilots, one engagment was he in a MIG 25 vs a F15. up to 60 k the F15 was superior and over 80k the F15 had no chance.

 

Jaeger

 

I am not sure the MiG-25 can get to 80K. If the engines become sensitive above 60K and shell out above 2.83 Mach at that altitude, how the heck can you do any "dogfighting" above 70K. Cannot user burner above 60K, cannot touch the throttles, and change in the Angle of Attack of the aircraft influences (badly) the airflow through the MiGs intakes. The airflow is already sensitive at 60K so a high altitude high speed fly-by is all that is possible for the airframes to consider in a "dogfight" above 70K. Gets down to who has the best missile aboard. One pass and (keep) hauling ass.

 

I do love the boss-hog MiG-25, but it is not really capable of doing those things.

 

Side note, met Victor two or three times to discuss Soviet tactics against US high altitude recon and some of the above are his thoughts paraphrased.

[DWCAce 19]

I might of missed it, but what is the title of this book that you speak of? :)

[+Jug 99]

I might of missed it, but what is the title of this book that you speak of? :)

Victor's book was titled "MIG Pilot" of mid to late 70's vintage.

[Stick 773]

I am not sure the MiG-25 can get to 80K. If the engines become sensitive above 60K and shell out above 2.83 Mach at that altitude, how the heck can you do any "dogfighting" above 70K. Cannot user burner above 60K, cannot touch the throttles, and change in the Angle of Attack of the aircraft influences (badly) the airflow through the MiGs intakes. The airflow is already sensitive at 60K so a high altitude high speed fly-by is all that is possible for the airframes to consider in a "dogfight" above 70K. Gets down to who has the best missile aboard. One pass and (keep) hauling ass.

 

I do love the boss-hog MiG-25, but it is not really capable of doing those things.

 

Side note, met Victor two or three times to discuss Soviet tactics against US high altitude recon and some of the above are his thoughts paraphrased.

 

People there is no air at that altitude. Your control surfaces arent going to bite anything.Its the engines or bust.

The MiG-25 was probably one of the greatest hoaxes pulled of by the Soviets.

[column5 63]

I think its an engineering feat that never had a realistic application since it couldn't intercept the SR-71 and the Valkyrie never materialized. Still a great accomplishment to field an aircraft in large numbers that could fly that high and that fast using the technology the Soviets had available to them at the time. If it was a hoax, western intelligence is at least partly to blame for overestimating it.

[kct 5]

Well, the States created the F-15 out of THAT overestimation.

[jaeger_301 0]

@jug - i wrote engagement, not dogfight. you are on the spot in this alt. there will be no dogfight.

 

the technology of the MIG 25 was somewhat outdated mixed with marvellous engineering solutions.

the electronic was based on vacuum tubes so the western intelligence thought this is a hoax otherwise the radar was jammer resistant. btw, the board computer was to slow for calculating a head on shot against an SR71.

 

an excellent link from column5 about the Mig 25 capabilities

http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/mig25.html

 

the warsaw pact pilots relied completely on the GCI and where more or less human autopilots. the GCI told them when to hit the burner, turn climb. a slight error in the turn and the pilot could never get the target on the radar.

 

Jaeger

 

this user has tons of flight videos

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?p=r&...0529&page=1

Edited September 4, 2008 by jaeger_301

[+Gepard 11,292]

The Mig-25PD was used to intercept SR-71 flight over the Baltic Sea in the 80th and they usually intercepted the Blackbird closed to 1.3 km distance hold this distance for a while and then flew home. This intercept missions were tracked by swedish radar stations. And for a while in "Air Forces Monthly" a report about this actions was to find.

[+Jug 99]

The Mig-25PD was used to intercept SR-71 flight over the Baltic Sea in the 80th and they usually intercepted the Blackbird closed to 1.3 km distance hold this distance for a while and then flew home. This intercept missions were tracked by swedish radar stations. And for a while in "Air Forces Monthly" a report about this actions was to find.

Cie bene? Good articles sell newspapers and magizines. Actual truth is hard to find in all that paper.

Edited September 4, 2008 by Jug

[Fubar512 1,350]

The SR-71's crusing speed is higher than the MiG-25's "wreck my engines in nothing flat" top speed.

 

EDIT: Cool webpage (with quotes by Belenko himself): http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/mig25.html

[+Dave 2,322]

Cie bene? Good articles sell newspapers and magizines. Actual truth is hard to find in all that paper.

 

Exactly, it never happened. They TRIED to intercept one, but it never came close. Lots of fluff to sell a magazine.

[kct 5]

Well, nothing compared to the hardcore tabloids, I guess.

[MigBuster 2,884]

Well, nothing compared to the hardcore tabloids, I guess.

 

 

What - The Sun wrote an article claiming that a Sopwith Camel could intercept an SR-71 no probs - shirley thats true

[kct 5]

Oh God, I forgot to mention tabloids of the UK variety. They are the best ones.

[+Gepard 11,292]

http://shop.keypublishing.com/acatalog/afm...ember_2004.html

 

 

The link to "Air Forces Monthly".

This is one of the best military aviation magazins and i think you can trust it.

 

By the way, one friend of me, who served out his time as radar operator told me, that he had watched such intercept operations on his radar screen.

Edited September 5, 2008 by Gepard

[column5 63]

I have to believe Jug on this...given his experience. Plus it just doesn't jive when you compare the SR-71s capabilities to the MiG-25.