Bad To The Bone...

[+EricJ 4,022]

And I'm thinking there's going to be a "Late" version with Sniper pod and JDAMs? And yeah, they're here in theatre, and yeah I've watched them drop (on a "Rover" like feed).

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

When the Bones from Ellsworth were initially deploying to Diego Garcia for OEF, they were trying to keep their deployment secret, however its not the 300 news vans outside the gate didn't know what was going on when 12 B-1s took off in the middle of the night one right after another. Rapid City woke up that night.

 

They were fully loaded and my dad was standing on the flight line. One A/C dropped a flare somehow and my dad and everyone around him thought they had lost a bird with a bomb bay full of bombs. But they quickly realized what happened.

 

Pretty sure one got shot up pretty bad in Allied Force but the crew did an awesome job and came back safe and got DFC's. I might be wrong on that though, I'll have to ask my dad, but he was still on Buffs at that point.

 

Pretty sure I saw some Bones on their way in to fire their first shots in anger in '98 while I was sitting in the desert mad that I was supposed to be back in Fort Stewart but got extended. I did for sure see B-52s fire ALCMs though, that was pretty cool, 3 ship formations with anti-collision lights on, would be over head then you would see bright orange lights below them and that would be it.

[+Dave 2,319]

So much so they bagged an F-117 in Yugoslavia-nothing is ideal!

 

Thus the "golden BB". That was a lucky shot, considering he just fired at a noise he thought he heard. Goes right back to Murphy's law.

 

Good point Dels, TSgt Steve Menzik, a guy I was an MTL with at Sheppard AFB and a C-130 flying Crew Chief would tell us stories of Vipers and F-5's (thats dates him and we used to give him crap over it too) on the deck, trying to get at a his Herc at 200ft off the deck (while yanking and banking). He said they came out better in most of engagements because he said the aggressor pilots just couldn't stomach the low altitude and the craziness of the Herc pilots. He did mention, that low flying was puke city for everyone.

[+ST0RM 145]

So much so they bagged an F-117 in Yugoslavia-nothing is ideal!

 

When you fly the same ingress routes for 3 nights straight and have a pretty good tracking crew, anything is possible.

[Stick 773]

Basically the Bone rules!PERIOD!

Any other opinion is a waste of thought!

[+whiteknight06604 932]

Basically the Bone rules!PERIOD!

Any other opinion is a waste of thought!

 

So I guess you could say it's the Chuck Norris of Bombers.

[JediMaster 451]

Have you ever been Mach 1.2? Its very supersonic.

 

My point was the difference between flying .9 and 1.2 isn't that great when it comes to flight times, especially if you need burner for 1.2 and not .9. Then you're just burning a lot of gas for little improvement. If you go closer to 2+ in burner you're "getting something" for your fuel usage.

 

A lot of these low-level penetrating planes like this and the F-111 go faster than anyone else at sea level where air is dense, but if they climb to altitude they're left in the dust by the Mach 2 interceptors.

[+Jug 99]

Thus the "golden BB". That was a lucky shot, considering he just fired at a noise he thought he heard. Goes right back to Murphy's law.

 

Good point Dels, TSgt Steve Menzik, a guy I was an MTL with at Sheppard AFB and a C-130 flying Crew Chief would tell us stories of Vipers and F-5's (thats dates him and we used to give him crap over it too) on the deck, trying to get at a his Herc at 200ft off the deck (while yanking and banking). He said they came out better in most of engagements because he said the aggressor pilots just couldn't stomach the low altitude and the craziness of the Herc pilots. He did mention, that low flying was puke city for everyone.

 

I flew Red Flag in my BUFFasaurus and the fair-haired fighter boys there all got a chance to have their way with me. Think a little about a fighter zipping up the rear of a BUFF for a shot. At the time, my quad-fiftys (B-52G) could shoot just a little before a F-16/15 gatling gun could and filled the air with more lead (hazard #1). Missile shot from the rear quarter was a risky deal, because your launch vehicle was just too close to mother earth (hazard #2). If you succeed, gun or missile, a lot of metal is coming apart right in front of you. Angle off gun shot was difficult because the same time you were in effective range for the gun, you are also too tight to pull out without hitting the ground (hazard#3). Angle off missile shot will hit the ground first that low (hazard #4). Nose on attack requires a bunch of speed (and gas) to get ahead of the BUFF and the BUFF must be cooperative and fly a straight line....not likely. (hazard #5). If you are able to set up a head on shot it is as near a suicide run as there is from the rear (hazard#6). Talked in post mission brief to an A-7D driver that actually flew under my BUFF in an attempted head on pass. It took all he had to just fly the jet once he got in position, there was no time to set up for whatever shot he had in mind, and he nearly lost it all flying through my jetwash (BUFF puts out a pretty good wake). He had to use a seat cushion extraction tool to get out of his jet postflight. Lastly, and my favorite, during the ingress, my BUFF was tossing out a SRAM (400KT Nuke) about every 30 miles (simulated). Those fighter jocks that were not blind, found that their radios didn't work, radars didn't work, motors didn't work, and vital pieces of their jets had dissappeared (wings, empenage, rudder) (extreme hazard #7).

 

Following my Red Flag experiences, my fear of Soviet defenses went way down. Actually my biggest fear in a stragegic strike mission into the Soviet Union during the Cold War was forest fires. We were scheduled to arrive some hours following the missile strikes and the potential for some horrific forest fires was very real. The G model could only take a 5 degree thermal spike across the intake without flaming out. Think about flying over cold Siberia, through a blazing forest fire, and over cold Siberia once again. Chances were much higher that I and my crew would be walking home after a flameout landing someplace than as a casualty to some fighter dude.

 

Back to thread, flying the Bone at low altitude amplifies all of the 7 hazards big time plus a few more on top. It gets down to how many Bone strikes can you survive before you don't have a place to land your fancy painted fighter jet.

 

Industrial capacity dirt movers rule!!!!!

[FastCargo 412]

Jug, I just got one thing to say:

 

GIDDYUP!

 

FastCargo

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Woooah there ... thanks jug!

 

Did you wear an eye patch?

 

Lastly, and my favorite, during the ingress, my BUFF was tossing out a SRAM (400KT Nuke) about every 30 miles (simulated). Those fighter jocks that were not blind, found that their radios didn't work, radars didn't work, motors didn't work, and vital pieces of their jets had dissappeared (wings, empenage, rudder) (extreme hazard #7).

Man now that is exactly why I hugely *simplified* my nuc effects -- so MANY blasts going on and seeing them over GIANT distances and the effects lasting for a LONG time. All 3 combine to hit framerates UNLESS the effects are greatly simplified.

 

 

 

I always try to share this find...

 

INTERVIEW WITH OVIDIO PUGNALE - 30.8.1996

 

~> http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/coldwar/inter...2/pugnale1.html

 

Page 3...

 

INT: Good answer. What was it like to fly a B-52 at low level at top speed?

:

:

:

...We had to fly the airplane manually, and it was a handful and get a little bumpy and some heat thermal and we had what we called 'thermal curtains' and these thermal curtains where you have all this glass around you, these windows. What you did, you pulled up all these curtains and the co-pilot, or whoever was not flying the airplane, had a little peephole there, maybe a six by six square. Everything else was closed and they wore.. now this may sound like I'm telling a story and an interesting anecdote.. add later on. We wore an eye-patch, one eye-patch covered one eye so that, you know, we.. then there.. and the co-pilot or the other pilot was kind of a safety observer. If something was coming up or something like that. Now, because there were weapons going off all over the place and these nuclear blasts, this light would blind you so if one went off, you got blinded. But you only got blinded in one eye, you see. So, you know, that may sound like a story but it's the truth to the extent that we used to get we'd get a pilot, a co-pilot, on alert for the first time. Someone would get a pair of goggles, the eye-patch, and they would tell him, says 'now you have to wear this on alert'. So 'what, why do I have to wear this?'. 'It's practice. You have to learn to see with one eye because when you fly, you're going to be sitting over there operating with one eye and while you're on alert here, this is the opportune time to do that' and of course this co-pilot would be walking round the facility with this one with this eye-patch on and of course everybody else would.. giggle and laugh about it.. at him. They knew that this young man had been had and after he found out about it, why, he, you know, was.. (interviewer laughs) it was something that.. we did to relieve some stress...

:

:

:

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,555]

Excuse me, but who is now working on one?

 

Wasn`t the B-70 also somewhere around ???

[+ST0RM 145]

Holy crap Jug, that was a cool story.

 

S!

[+Dave 2,319]

Well you heard it boys from Jug himself.....low is the way to go.

[ONETINSOLDIER 2]

blah blah blah blah,,,,,when do we get the file?

[+Spectre_USA 7]

Wow, way to get into the spirit of things, gwar.

 

As an ex-Aardvark armorer, I really look forward to doing some low level incursions in the F-111's younger, bigger brother.

 

Especially going the speed of heat with your virtual hair on fire in the finely sculpted Bekaa Valley in WOI. The feeling of speed in that monster beast

as you see the tops of mountains go by over your altitude is going to be a serious rush.

 

Many thanks to folks like Jug who did it with no re fly button. I'd need one of those extractors as a given for every debrief...

 

 

___EDIT___ Typos.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Spectre_USA

[ONETINSOLDIER 2]

Wow, way to get into the spirit of things, gwar.

 

As an ex-Aardvark armorer, I really look forward to doing some low level incursions in the F-111's younger, bigger brother.

 

Especially going the speed of heat with your virtual hair on fire in the finely sculpted Bekaa Valley in WOI. The feeling of speed in that monster beast

as you see the tops of mountains go by over your altitude is going to be a serious rush.

 

Many thanks to folks like Jug who did it with no re fly button. I'd need one of those extractors as a given for every debrief...

 

 

___EDIT___ Typos.

 

LOL, Im just yankin on Daves chain,

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Yea it was funny when I saw it, I wish I could get GimmieGimmies for my weirdomods.

 

 

If you want to do air domination thing, you beat the high defenses, so you can maintain a high presence starting top down. Think P-51Doras over Germany.

 

The only time low was required on a large scale was late cold war SAC going from pure Peace to pure Nucs in just a few hours notice. No time to take down high defenses beforehand.

[+EricJ 4,022]

Well you heard it boys from Jug himself.....low is the way to go.

 

I-eeyah!

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Only if you don't take out high defenses.

 

Ussian Air Force post-Cold War policy seems to be go high...after taking out high threats.

[ONETINSOLDIER 2]

Yea it was funny when I saw it, I wish I could get GimmieGimmies for my weirdomods.

 

Ive seen some of your work, your no slacker there,,,thx for the contributions (and to all the other modders too)

[+Dave 2,319]

LOL, Im just yankin on Daves chain,

 

Sorry, we are only releasing it to USAF personnel. The Navy has to settle for sloppy 2nd's.

[johnrey 0]

I flew Red Flag in my BUFFasaurus and the fair-haired fighter boys there all got a chance to have their way with me. Think a little about a fighter zipping up the rear of a BUFF for a shot. At the time, my quad-fiftys (B-52G) could shoot just a little before a F-16/15 gatling gun could and filled the air with more lead (hazard #1). Missile shot from the rear quarter was a risky deal, because your launch vehicle was just too close to mother earth (hazard #2). If you succeed, gun or missile, a lot of metal is coming apart right in front of you. Angle off gun shot was difficult because the same time you were in effective range for the gun, you are also too tight to pull out without hitting the ground (hazard#3). Angle off missile shot will hit the ground first that low (hazard #4). Nose on attack requires a bunch of speed (and gas) to get ahead of the BUFF and the BUFF must be cooperative and fly a straight line....not likely. (hazard #5). If you are able to set up a head on shot it is as near a suicide run as there is from the rear (hazard#6). Talked in post mission brief to an A-7D driver that actually flew under my BUFF in an attempted head on pass. It took all he had to just fly the jet once he got in position, there was no time to set up for whatever shot he had in mind, and he nearly lost it all flying through my jetwash (BUFF puts out a pretty good wake). He had to use a seat cushion extraction tool to get out of his jet postflight. Lastly, and my favorite, during the ingress, my BUFF was tossing out a SRAM (400KT Nuke) about every 30 miles (simulated). Those fighter jocks that were not blind, found that their radios didn't work, radars didn't work, motors didn't work, and vital pieces of their jets had dissappeared (wings, empenage, rudder) (extreme hazard #7).

 

Following my Red Flag experiences, my fear of Soviet defenses went way down. Actually my biggest fear in a stragegic strike mission into the Soviet Union during the Cold War was forest fires. We were scheduled to arrive some hours following the missile strikes and the potential for some horrific forest fires was very real. The G model could only take a 5 degree thermal spike across the intake without flaming out. Think about flying over cold Siberia, through a blazing forest fire, and over cold Siberia once again. Chances were much higher that I and my crew would be walking home after a flameout landing someplace than as a casualty to some fighter dude.

 

Back to thread, flying the Bone at low altitude amplifies all of the 7 hazards big time plus a few more on top. It gets down to how many Bone strikes can you survive before you don't have a place to land your fancy painted fighter jet.

 

Industrial capacity dirt movers rule!!!!!

Nice story, I wish I could do it myself....

[+Jug 99]

Nice story, I wish I could do it myself....

Red Flag...sure. The real thing.....you don't want any part of it.

 

I have been reflecting on how many successful missions I have flown in all of the Wo*/SF sims and they all come back to low high-speed ingress and low high-speed egress. That combined with some extensive practice at the range will enable successful missions with the "one pass, haul ass" rule in effect. If the job is to move dirt, then move dirt. Don't mess with the fighters coming or going. Think about it, risking your jet to tangle with another fighter is risking an asset that can be used to move dirt again tomorrow. It is all about turf ownership and the Army and Marines are pretty good at that. Dirt moving helps them much more than kill marks on the front of your jet. The BUFF is a beast at low altitude and I cannot wait to put the Bone through its paces. In the meantime, the Aardvark or the Thud is about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on.

[JediMaster 451]

I forget, how many MiG kills did BUFFs get in Vietnam? Wasn't it more than MiGs got BUFF kills?

[+Jug 99]

I forget, how many MiG kills did BUFFs get in Vietnam? Wasn't it more than MiGs got BUFF kills?

I don't know off-hand the answer to that question, Jedi. Seems like I read that the MiGs were seeking cover in the BUFF formations to keep away from the roving packs of F-4s during Linebacker ops. Cannot say as I blame them since we were putting hundreds of aircraft in the sky over Hanoi for a bunch of days running. Not sure about the kill ratio, but the gun-to-gun shootouts from rear attacks were not in their favor since they did not get a chance at less than a three pack of BUFFs (that's 12 .50 cals loading up your windscreen). The amount of Jamming for their onboard radars from the BUFFs probably melted their onboard units, so a missile shot was a poke in the dark. Even a heat seeking attack would be tough with three BUFFS tossing out bunches of flares the size of BBQ pits I would not be surprised if they lost more MiGs to BUFFs than the other way around. All of those attacks were high altitude night bombardment a la RAF during WW2.