bucklehead101 29 Posted October 21, 2008 So I am a High School senior and applying for an AF ROTC scholarship. Even if i dont get the scholarship I still intend to join the AF ROTC unit and hopefully get a commission. My first choice would be to fly. If i dont fly i want to do something that doesnt keep me behind a desk to do paperwork. Are there any careers out there that let officers be out in the field and do stuff? What would officers do in Security Forces? Air Force Special Operations? Thanks in advance -Bucklehead Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topcat II 6 Posted October 21, 2008 All the Best to you!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ST0RM 145 Posted October 21, 2008 There are other flying jobs available also. Granted first choice is a pilot, but we do still have some Navigators (WSOs in the F-15E) and Electronic Warfare Officers. How good of shape are you in? If the flying gig falls through, you can always try out for the Special Tactics units. They are the Pararescue and Combat Control teams. I've known several guys from the STS throughout my career and they love the job. Good luck! Storm P.S. Dont let anyone fool you into thinking we dont ride a desk. If we aren't flying, we are doing paperwork. Everyone has a ground job in my squadron. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+suhsjake 11 Posted October 21, 2008 I tried to get a scholarship through the Air Force, but was denied. Then I came to Embry-Riddle and saw how much fun Army ROTC was and got a scholarship through them and the National Guard. Sophomore, junior and senior year in college, I will be in the SMP program, and doing once a month weekend drills. I prefer to be in the Army ROTC over the Air Force ROTC, we do a hell of a lot more fun things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Typhoid 231 Posted October 21, 2008 don't forget Space Ops and Air Battle Managers (controllers) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted October 22, 2008 Yeah, there are USAF guys working on the EELV launches here and at Vandenburg. That's a job where you always do what you train to, whether in peace or war. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sparkomatic 7 Posted October 22, 2008 pffht...have lived through 2 draw-downs already...this time we lost over 40,000 airmen and officers...those special ops are in the top 1% category and flying billets are getting cut (and so are flying hours) not to mention if you fly fighters, EXPECT a tour in UAVs. And he is correct...everyone now has at least two jobs so forget Top Gun or Iron Eagle like existences...and if you do well, ironically enough you fly less... Dude, I have done two programs with the Navy and one with the Army (where I basically belonged to them/was paid by the USAF) not to mention spending 5 years on Okinawa (immersed with the Marines)...in all honesty, go Navy! They are today what the USAF was 10 - 20 years ago...not perfect but a safer bet. Not saying the USAF isnt great, because it is and working in the military is better than civilian life (did a few years in corporate America)...but since you seem to have the option to compete for scholarships, go Navy! And if anyone wants to turn this into a contest, I will tell you to spare the effort, go argue about something else. Cheers and go Navy! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+suhsjake 11 Posted October 22, 2008 Plus, if you join the Navy or Marines on a scholarship, you are guaranteed a pilot slot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Typhoid 231 Posted October 22, 2008 (edited) Plus, if you join the Navy or Marines on a scholarship, you are guaranteed a pilot slot. oh? not unless an awful has changed in the last couple of years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (how much of the Navy and Marine Corps flies - and in the front (left) seat?) Edited October 22, 2008 by Typhoid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gbnavy61 1 Posted October 22, 2008 (edited) Plus, if you join the Navy or Marines on a scholarship, you are guaranteed a pilot slot. Yeah, I don't think so either. The Marines, maybe - but I know the Navy doesn't "guarantee" that. However, I will say your odds of getting a flight slot are probably better in the Navy or Marines, rather than the Air Force. This topic reminds me of... Bob Norris is a former Naval aviator who also did a 3 year exchange tour flying the F-15 Eagle. He is now an accomplished author of entertaining books about US Naval Aviation including "Check Six" and "Fly-Off." In response to a letter from an aspiring fighter pilot on which military academy to attend, Bob replied with the following: 12 Feb 04 Young Man, Congratulations on your selection to both the Naval and Air Force Academies. Your goal of becoming a fighter pilot is impressive and a fine way to serve your country. As you requested, I'd be happy to share some insight into which service would be the best choice. Each service has a distinctly different culture. You need to ask yourself "Which one am I more likely to thrive in?" USAF Snapshot: The USAF is exceptionally well organized and well run. Their training programs are terrific. All pilots are groomed to meet high standards for knowledge and professionalism. Their aircraft are top-notch and extremely well maintained. Their facilities are excellent. Their enlisted personnel are the brightest and the best trained. The USAF is homogenous and macro. No matter where you go, you'll know what to expect, what is expected of you, and you'll be given the training & tools you need to meet those expectations. You will never be put in a situation over your head. Over a 20-year career, you will be home for most important family events. Your Mom would want you to be an Air Force pilot...so would your wife. Your Dad would want your sister to marry one. Navy Snapshot: Aviators are part of the Navy, but so are Black shoes (surface warfare) and bubble heads (submariners). Furthermore, the Navy is split into two distinctly different Fleets (West and East Coast). The Navy is heterogeneous and micro. Your squadron is your home; it may be great, average, or awful. A squadron can go from one extreme to the other before you know it. You will spend months preparing for cruise and months on cruise. The quality of the aircraft varies directly with the availability of parts. Senior Navy enlisted are salt of the earth; you'll be proud if you earn their respect. Junior enlisted vary from terrific to the troubled kid the judge made join the service. You will be given the opportunity to lead these people during your career; you will be humbled and get your hands dirty. The quality of your training will vary and sometimes you will be over your head. You will miss many important family events. There will be long stretches of tedious duty aboard ship. You will fly in very bad weather and/or at night and you will be scared many times. You will fly with legends in the Navy and they will kick your ass until you become a lethal force. And some days - when the scheduling Gods have smiled upon you - your jet will catapult into a glorious morning over a far-away sea and you will be drop-jawed that someone would pay you to do it. The hottest girl in the bar wants to meet the Naval Aviator. That bar is in Singapore. Bottom line, son, if you gotta ask...pack warm & good luck in Colorado. PS: Air Force pilots wear scarves and iron their flight suits. Edited October 22, 2008 by gbnavy61 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Dave 2,319 Posted October 22, 2008 If I could fly aircraft in any branch of US Military that would take me I would. Air Force, Navy, Marines, Army, Coast Guard. To me its all good. If I have to hand it to any one set of pilots, its the Coast Guard chopper pilots who work ocean rescue up in the PNW and Alaska. They never stop amazing me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fallenphoenix1986 603 Posted October 22, 2008 lol quite enjoyed that. had my decision made for me when I failed the pilot medical for the RAF but met Royal Navy standards, for some reason RAF requires 6/6 whereas FAA accepts 6/12 correctable to 6/6. Anyway good luck Bucklehead. Craig Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+SkippyBing 8 Posted October 22, 2008 Craig, for some reason we seem to be more pragmatic about medical standards, I know a couple of pilots who had joined the RAF, one as a fighter controller and one I think as an RAF Police type who then got better offers from the RN because we didn't require them to meet such stringent medical standards. I can only guess the Crabs have more applicants than they need for aircrew and use it as a filter. Mind you it's amazing the number of people who suddenly need class once they've started flying training... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
commander 0 Posted October 22, 2008 I tried to get a scholarship through the Air Force, but was denied. Then I came to Embry-Riddle and saw how much fun Army ROTC was and got a scholarship through them and the National Guard. Sophomore, junior and senior year in college, I will be in the SMP program, and doing once a month weekend drills. I prefer to be in the Army ROTC over the Air Force ROTC, we do a hell of a lot more fun things. so Whats ER like, i want to go through AE and flight as minor. any suggestions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sparkomatic 7 Posted October 22, 2008 Also, the quote from Bob Norris is old (2004)...and the information he based his statement on is old also...we are now post-Moseley...think of it like New Orleans post-Katrina...things are so bad, you dont know what all is wrong...personally, if they had offered the job of Chief to replace Moseley I would have flat refused... Many of us refer to this as the post-Modern AF...the USAF is the smallest it has ever been...the USAF has been flying combat missions SINCE 1991...the fleet was supposed to be replaced within 15 years of delivery...there are fighters older than maintainers...oh and how many maintainers do we have (Moseley cut them mercilessly)? Think about it...you have a sports car...you drive it to work everyday (actually you share it with other people who also drive it like a rental)...and sometimes you take it to the desert for months on end...now stop changing the oil... Certainly maintainers have my highest regard, period. If I gave you a teaspoon and pointed you at the Grand Canyon and told you to make one just like that in Pennsylvania...you would rightly be concerned regarding your prospects for success... And just try to out process or get any admin work done...those people were cut also...severely...we NO KIDDING have jobs that are manned at 3%...I said THREE PERCENT...and those arent throw-away jobs either...and, if you are wanting to move along in life, the very billets needed for promotion are manned in the single digits... And that part about being home? No...I was deployed 664 days out of the last 5 years...that does NOT include all TDYs either...do the math. Work with some dudes from other platforms here...they EXPECT to fulfill a flying job in their primary aircraft ONCE...then off to the schoolhouse then off to UAVs then off to staff (maybe)... Here is another hint...Moseley decimated the airlift/tanker and 11R (basically heavy airplanes like 40 year old 707s) slots...so now who do you think they will hire? I mean C-5 pilot out of Dover or Travis would be a great job...but I think I read you wanted to be a fighter pilot? It is NOT all doom and gloom...but the pundits and the recruiter already told you the "good stuff"...oh and if he mentions the "30-days paid vacation"...kick him...repeatedly...I dont know anyone who doesnt "burn leave" on weekends and holidays. Sure, there are people that manage it, but if you are trying your best, time evaporates. Oh and medical care? Dont make me laugh...a young lady that works for me reported for work with her right eye looking like a no-kidding tomato...the military doctor told her it would heal itself in a few days and go back to work. They are not perfect, but if someone gave me a ride in a time machine, there are a couple of stops I would make and one of those would have been to the Navy recruiter's office... Go Navy! cheers... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Typhoid 231 Posted October 22, 2008 lol quite enjoyed that.had my decision made for me when I failed the pilot medical for the RAF but met Royal Navy standards, for some reason RAF requires 6/6 whereas FAA accepts 6/12 correctable to 6/6. Anyway good luck Bucklehead. Craig the same thing happened to me, actually. I was in AFROTC, but the AF had a different visual standard for their WSO than the Navy had for NFO's. Long story short - I've never regretted the switch! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Typhoid 231 Posted October 22, 2008 If I could fly aircraft in any branch of US Military that would take me I would. Air Force, Navy, Marines, Army, Coast Guard. To me its all good. If I have to hand it to any one set of pilots, its the Coast Guard chopper pilots who work ocean rescue up in the PNW and Alaska. They never stop amazing me. the bottom line is that it really doesn't matter that much which service, agency or company and which airplane you get into, front seat or back!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fallenphoenix1986 603 Posted October 22, 2008 Now that you mention it Skippy number of applicants for the Navy might just be a factor lol At my P1 pressentation there were 18 or 19 of us applying for RAF officer/Aircrew and 1 for the Navy. Another thing about the navy I liked: in the RAF you need to be trainng by the time your 23 yet the Navy is happy to wait till your 26, go figure Craig Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gbnavy61 1 Posted October 22, 2008 the bottom line is that it really doesn't matter that much which service, agency or company and which airplane you get into, front seat or back!! Hmmm, not sure about that one... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stretch32 0 Posted October 23, 2008 pffht...have lived through 2 draw-downs already...this time we lost over 40,000 airmen and officers...those special ops are in the top 1% category and flying billets are getting cut (and so are flying hours) not to mention if you fly fighters, EXPECT a tour in UAVs. And he is correct...everyone now has at least two jobs so forget Top Gun or Iron Eagle like existences...and if you do well, ironically enough you fly less... Dude, I have done two programs with the Navy and one with the Army (where I basically belonged to them/was paid by the USAF) not to mention spending 5 years on Okinawa (immersed with the Marines)...in all honesty, go Navy! They are today what the USAF was 10 - 20 years ago...not perfect but a safer bet. Not saying the USAF isnt great, because it is and working in the military is better than civilian life (did a few years in corporate America)...but since you seem to have the option to compete for scholarships, go Navy! And if anyone wants to turn this into a contest, I will tell you to spare the effort, go argue about something else. Cheers and go Navy! I'll second this one on going Navy. At this point I'm in Navy Primary with a VT that is a joint squadron made up of Air Force, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard. The biggest fear of the Air Force students here is getting to T-38's (trainer for fighters) and then ending up "flying" UAV's. You will get to fly in a cockpit and at this point UAV's are just a single tour deal if your "lucky" enough to get them. However, from what I understand (the word on the street so take it for what it's worth) there will eventually be UAV only pilots who will only fly in a cockpit long enough to learn the ropes before they permanently sit you in front of a video game. It doesn't sound very exciting to me personally but I've heard it creates a pretty good family life if you have one. As for the Navy, there are numerous opportunities to fly as a Pilot or NFO. You can do the Naval Academy, NROTC or OCS (my mode of commision). Each has it's advantages and diadvantages but all can put you in a cockpit if you play your cards right. Also, you'll have the highest probability of getting a flight slot going Navy. I personally went the OCS route which can guarantee you a shot at flight school if your selected. You have to apply via an Officer Recruiting Program but if your selected at least you know where your going once you commision. If you go ROTC or Academy theres no guarantee you'll get anywhere near a cockpit no matter which service you choose. Also, the Navy has a program called BDCP (I'm pretty sure it's still around) where they will pay you as an E-5 while your in college and then send you to OCS once you graduate. It's a good deal as you'll earn leave time, get money while in school so you can concentrate on studying and know what your going to do once you graduate. I highly recomend looking into it. Check out the website www.airwarriors.com for more info on all these sources of commisioning and just remember that if you want to do something bad enough work hard and don't ever give up and you'll probably get there. As far as Navy programs go that will take you a long way in getting selected. Stretch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
commander 0 Posted October 23, 2008 my only problem with navy is the fact that you get stuck out at sea for 6 months, trapped in a giant ship in small quarters with the same 6000 people Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stretch32 0 Posted October 23, 2008 my only problem with navy is the fact that you get stuck out at sea for 6 months, trapped in a giant ship in small quarters with the same 6000 people Actually, there are platforms that aren't carrier based. P-3C's, C-2's (land on carriers but are actually shore based) and alot of helo's as well. If you don't want hooks you can fly maritime or E-6B TACAMO's. Also, I've been told one of the coolest jobs is helo's flying off "small boys" in the sub-hunter or resupply role. There are actually very few helo's aboard a carrier. Just because your a Naval Aviator it doesn't mean you'll have to fly off a carrier. Stretch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
commander 0 Posted October 23, 2008 well yeah, but i'd prefer to be a fighter/attack pilot first or an instructor pilot, third would be C-130, C-17 or VIP because they give transport hours that could help in a commercial pilot carrer. Any suggestions would help, i still have plenty of time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+suhsjake 11 Posted October 23, 2008 I enjoy Embry-Riddle. I'm currently working for a bachelors in Aerospace Studies. The Prescott campus is nice, and there's plenty to do around here. Daytona is also a nice campus, but they don't have the helicopter stuff like the Prescott campus. Hey commander, by chance, are you a high school senior? The only reason I ask is becuase you just missed the Prescott open house. Also on the slate, Congrats to the Embry-Riddle Ranger Challenge team for placing first all three categories (men, coed, and womens). Participants where graded on PT, knowlegde, medical evacuation, hand grenade course, rifle assembly and dissasembly, and a 10K full combat load march. BTW, Embry-Riddle at Prescott ROTC units are rated in the top 20. If you have any questions commander, just let me know, and I'll try to answer them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
