serverandenforcer 33 Posted February 19, 2009 The 3D model is complete aside from it needing to be unwrapped (which is about 45% done) and textured. What I really need though is a FM for it. I don't know how to do those kinds of things, aside from just minor tweaking. I kind of have an idea on how to setup some parts of the FM for the model to behave like a helo, but I don't know how to write it all down in the .ini. The following is a picture of what I was thinking of doing. The idea is to have a 6 engnines setup for the model. In the picture below, I've color coded where I think the engines should be postioned. Blue marks the area for two engines solely for the exhaust emiter. The four green sections marks where the remaining four engines would be positioned (I know they won't be able to rotate with the blades, but it's the spot where each blade extends at an equal distance on the y-axis from the fuselgae). Now I'm thinking of having those four eninges setup as rotating nozzles, just like on the harrier. The collective operations would adjust their angle of pitch, spanning from directing thrust downwards (let's say postion "0") to directing thrust upwards (postion "100") to simulate the apache's ability to hover inverted. The red arrows indicate the direction of thrust from the engines when rotated at a neutral setting (postion "50"). Now I don't know how to set that all up (don't even know if it's possible), but was wondering if someone here who knows how to do those kinds of things is willing to help me out with this. If so, send me a PM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+AleDucat 188 Posted February 19, 2009 Hi! You got a fantastic idea with that! I'll give it a try and tell you what happens. Man! What a good idea! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icarus999 70 Posted February 19, 2009 The 3D model is complete aside from it needing to be unwrapped (which is about 45% done) and textured. What I really need though is a FM for it. I don't know how to do those kinds of things, aside from just minor tweaking. I kind of have an idea on how to setup some parts of the FM for the model to behave like a helo, but I don't know how to write it all down in the .ini. The following is a picture of what I was thinking of doing. The idea is to have a 6 engnines setup for the model. In the picture below, I've color coded where I think the engines should be postioned. Blue marks the area for two engines solely for the exhaust emiter. The four green sections marks where the remaining four engines would be positioned (I know they won't be able to rotate with the blades, but it's the spot where each blade extends at an equal distance on the y-axis from the fuselgae). Now I'm thinking of having those four eninges setup as rotating nozzles, just like on the harrier. The collective operations would adjust their angle of pitch, spanning from directing thrust downwards (let's say postion "0") to directing thrust upwards (postion "100") to simulate the apache's ability to hover inverted. The red arrows indicate the direction of thrust from the engines when rotated at a neutral setting (postion "50"). Now I don't know how to set that all up (don't even know if it's possible), but was wondering if someone here who knows how to do those kinds of things is willing to help me out with this. If so, send me a PM. PM LCountach, he did the updated flight mod for the AH-1W over at Capuns site. I have heard that it is a great flight model. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastCargo 412 Posted February 19, 2009 Except the AI can't take off with it. FC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Julhelm 266 Posted February 19, 2009 You can build it with ultrapowerful flaps instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stick 773 Posted February 19, 2009 How about Gepards Dora? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canadair 16 Posted February 19, 2009 How about Gepards Dora? That dora flies well.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+malibu43 142 Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) I'm sure this has been explored before, so feel free to tell it's been tried and doesn't work... But what about putting one very powerful engine aligned vertically on the end of each main rotor blade. Then, is it possible to couple the movement of all four engines to the movement of the pitch and roll controls, instead of thrust vectoring controls? It seems like this would most accurately simulate the forces that are going to to get a helicopter into the air and move around. The tail rotor would still be a different story, unless you can place two engines back there and have their throttle controlled by yaw input... *edit* - something like this (excuse the poor artwork...) Edited February 19, 2009 by malibu43 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) I'm sure this has been explored before, so feel free to tell it's been tried and doesn't work... But what about putting one very powerful engine aligned vertically on the end of each main rotor blade. Then, is it possible to couple the movement of all four engines to the movement of the pitch and roll controls, instead of thrust vectoring controls? It seems like this would most accurately simulate the forces that are going to to get a helicopter into the air and move around. The tail rotor would still be a different story, unless you can place two engines back there and have their throttle controlled by yaw input... *edit* - something like this (excuse the poor artwork...) That won't work. That is basically a very complicated form of thrust vectoring which has already been discussed way too many times. I'm pretty sure of my idea. It's basically true to how the harrier operates. The only issue that I see is getting the direction of thrust that I proposed. The idea is also coupled with having a very low stall value, if almost none, but implementing that is secondary to get the direction of thrust to work. I have some other "Plan-B" ideas incase that one doesn't work. Edited February 19, 2009 by serverandenforcer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gepard 11,290 Posted February 20, 2009 I think you should take the Mi-24 FM as basic and modify it as far as neccessary. The Mi-24 flies well and also the AI has no problem with it, with one exaption, the AI pilots have no idea how to land this beast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557 Posted February 20, 2009 Have you read my post about the idea of two different FMs? Like Marcs Mi-8 If you want to fly a strike or CAS mission select the AH-64 wich has the AI FM for the Wingmans.. than you select the other in the loadout menue for you. AH-64 "normal AI FM bird" AH-64 "with the human FM, export set to none and everything to rare so this bird wont appear on the battlefield as random. Marcs FM for his Mi-8 is great, don`t know if you tried it but it`s really great. I use this method for my mi-8, select the normal AI one and the one for me... and it works great. Would be great if you could integrate the FM from the mi-8 into this bird! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted February 21, 2009 Well, so far only AleDucat has stepped up to take a crack at it. The only skill I have with FM is just minor tweak work. I do not have the knowledge or the expertise on how to build one up - even from an existing FM. I don't mind if others want to try building one with a different way of doing it. However, my main objective is for the player to be able to control the aircraft like a real helicopter. Essentially you can with the thrust vectoring capabilities with the harrier. On a regular helicopter, the handle of the collective does two things: as you rotate it, you increase engine speed, and as you pull it up, you increase positive collective (or in this case, rotating the imaginary exhaust nozzles down). Definately the AI wouldn't be able to do it, so I am going to have a seperate FM for the AI. However, for the time being, the primary goal is to get a FM setup for the player. After that, I'll focus on building a FM for the AI... which can probably be made from a minor alteration to the player's FM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557 Posted February 21, 2009 I have to say that I don`t understand the FM system of the mi-8, tried to reproduce it for another chopper but it was a fault Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted February 21, 2009 I have to say that I don`t understand the FM system of the mi-8, tried to reproduce it for another chopper but it was a fault Well, I don't think I could do any better. Matching things up really has to do with renaming the nodes (which are basically the names of the parts of the aircraft - which are given to them in 3D Max by the model maker and can be found in the .OUT file) and making sure that the x,y,z coordinates for those parts are matched up correctly as well (the main ones to be concerned of would probably be the center of gravity, center of pivot, and collision points). Then there's animation key sets that are assigned to specific parts that operate with a complex animation (for instance, the collective on the Apache, which involves 17 moving parts for a single animation key). If you throw in the wrong animation key for the part, you're not going to get the part to animate (but may incidentally get another part to animate with the function). Aero-dynamic data is another matter, in which I have no idea on how to construct. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557 Posted February 21, 2009 The prob is that the "special FM" works in a completly different way than the normal FM and data.ini files. The Mi-8 is a mysterium for me, but hey I think some goo dFM maker will help you, this is a nice comunity and here are lots of guys around who are waiting for this bird, so I think this baby will be damn fine when it`s ready for release Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted February 26, 2009 BUMP... anybody else interested in doing a FM for this? Haven't gotten any takers from expereinced FM gurus yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+AleDucat 188 Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) I've been playing around with your Apache but I'll need a couple of things about your model. First, can you set the axis center 0,0,0 in max at main rotor's center of rotation? The height, also could be the same as for the blades. Second, can you model a couple of extra main rotors?one with blades straight horizontal ann another with them pointing a little bit upward... That's for simulating diffrente rotor speeds. Third... I forget what I was about to tell you... And just for the sake of, can anyone send me the Mil Mi-8? Perhaps I could learn something usefull there Oh, and I have to mention it, I have my own Apache, but what the hell, you put yours first in the game and will not be of any use to have two I also have a HH-53, but that is another story :whistling: Alex Edited February 26, 2009 by AleDucat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ST0RM 145 Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) I also have a HH-53, but that is another story :whistling: cough, cough, PAVELOW, cough, cough P.S. Here is the link for Marcello's Mi-8s http://marcfighters.combatace.com/Aircrafts.htm Edited February 26, 2009 by ST0RM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557 Posted February 26, 2009 Looks very nice, Damn cool to have an Apache ingame!!! may I ask If it`s possible to animate the rotors?! When the bird is flying the rotor is "bending" up hope those the right words?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Zurawski 33 Posted February 26, 2009 Option... The AI can only fly it in the horizontal (like a plane) but through thrust vecorting you (non-AI) can fly it completely like a helo... The FM simular to that of my Osprey might be viable... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+allenjb42 4,234 Posted February 26, 2009 two Apaches would be good. You could have an A model and a Longbow model with the mast mounted radar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557 Posted February 26, 2009 good idea.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+AleDucat 188 Posted February 26, 2009 Yeap, I could take the Longbow... But I (we) still need someone to make a cockpit... Maybe you, Blackbird? Actually, rotors are animated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted February 27, 2009 Yeap, I could take the Longbow... But I (we) still need someone to make a cockpit... Maybe you, Blackbird? Actually, rotors are animated. Ah crap, did i forget to give you the animation keys? I'll send them over in a PM. Yeah, they "flex" up and down with positive and negative collective. And btw... your apache rocks!!!!! looks better than mine. How many polys is it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted February 27, 2009 OK AleDucat, I sent a PM to you that has the updated file and the animation keys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
