RAF Phantom upgrade programme

[greendog 0]

i have been reading a book by Ian Black and his phantom days and came across an extract about the Phantom being upgraded in the RAF to the standard of the German ICE phantoms. The projected life expectancy of the airframs was to be extended well into 2000 with airframe strengthaning programmes, a new wing, improved avionics, HUD, defensive subsytems including disposable countermeasures. Also to improve the phantoms lack luster visability a clear view frameless forward canopy was to be included. I feel this would have been more of a match than the F3 although the phantom lacks the range. Unfortunatly the goverment decided to put all its eggs with a few F3's and Hawks with winders for a number of years.

 

I was wondering if anyone with modding knowledge would be interested in creating a RAF super phantom from the original third wire F4M, adding F3 style HUD, Avionics and ECM systems.

[Syrinx 13]

Interesting.

 

It's certainly do-able.

 

I'll have a look\see...which means just that so don't hold your breath !

[Wrench 9,846]

Not hard at all ... I'd reccomend having a look at the Hellenic AF Phantoms I released last year, in particular the F-4E AUP ... the pit's is all set up to use the avionics70.dll, with HUDs and GM radar (in reality, it's the JASDF F-4EJ-Kai pit); I disremember if they're AMRAAM capable, but that's an easy data ini edit (ie: add AHM to the Sparrow stations and adjust the loadot ini accordingly)

 

Engines might need 'swapping out' for something a little more powerful (and not as exhasut trail diry); maybe some F-110s ala that aborted Isreali Super Phantom (F4 2000???)

 

Probably the matter of 15 or 20 minutes work Maybe a little longer to 'drop' the front canopy frame via cockpit ini edits -- it'll still be on the external model (aircraft lod), but not in the cockpit view (btw, this is how we got our first Viper pits in 2004/5 - ArmorDave discovered the "move bits" method)

Removing the frame will cause some issues with the disappearence of the stand-by compass, and the external tank jett buttons...but not a big issue

 

EDIT: oh, dopey me!!! I forgot the canopy bow IS a different mesh from the actual front windscreen frame; that oval part directly in front of the pilot. So, it's eminatnly doable with a minimum of fuss

 

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[Derk 265]

Phipha Phantom !!!!!

 

Derk

[Wrench 9,846]

ok, airframe is done ... it's actually quite a simple matter, since TMF has this very nice FGR Mk.2 to work from (with Sundowners skins)

Cockpit's in, avioinics peaked and tweeks....just have to figure out the weapons loads.

 

I'll have some screenies later Tues

 

One major problem tho; using the 'moves' to drop the front canopy frame creates a 'hole' in the glass, so you'll all be stuck with the front framing.

 

As to weapons, AMRAAMs (duh!) ASRAAM? maybe, and RAF bombs and rocket pods (note to self -- find the multi-pod tweek -yet again!!!)

 

Release-wise, I don't want to step on TMF toes by incluidng lods; you can either use the ones from the FGR 2, or I"ll shoot bpao a PM requesting permission to include (which I have to do for 3 or 4 other aircraft I've got nearly ready..)

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[greendog 0]

wow thanks for the quick response, as for weapons i think it was intended that the aircraft was to be used primarily as an interceptor with secondary attack capabilies. It would have had the standard RAF 4 winders and 4 Skyflash and later may have had the upgrade for 4 ASRAAM and 4 AMRAAM.

 

thanks again for the quick response your work sounds very good

[Wrench 9,846]

Ok, here' some screenies with various loadouts (sundowner's original FGR.2 skins -- they get a new patch bmp with the squadron badge)

 

SEAD with BL755 and ALARMs (note the ASRAAMs)

CAS with muliple Matra rocket pods

STRIKE with LGBs & pave spike

 

note: the loadout ini has several versions, just commented out for STRIKE, using UK500 dumb bombs. Anti-ship uses Sea Eagles

 

Front office wise, I like the EJ-Kai pit, but I may experiment with using the stock 3W F-15A, as that's a framless windscreen (even though tthe frame will still exist on the external view/model), and is has a nicer more 'modern' look. The glicth with that is the fall line for the CCIP usually is 'off' the HUD glass ... been that way since WoE came out.

 

Enginewise, I may stick with the Speys .. the RB199s I wanted to use off the Tornado have LESS horsepower then the Speys do. Unless someone comes up with an alternate I haven't thought of...

 

Thoughts?

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[kct 5]

You can try to borrow some of the ideas from the Chinese. They still use Spey derivatives even today for military applications (in the JH-7A, heck, even the nozzles are the same).

[+ST0RM 145]

Pretty sick Kevin.

 

Always happy to see more life put into the F-4.

[Wrench 9,846]

After all I said above, I decieded to swap out the Spey's for P&W F-100-PW-220 Not that much extra HP (ok, thrust), but it DO help. Haven't finished testing; I just hope I don't have Rhino that supercruises!!!

 

Tested with the 3W F-15A pit ... the upper dash just didn't look right, so you all will be "stuck" with the EJ-Kai's pit. So sorry!

 

When all's said and done, it'll be a nice companion A/C for my Eagle FGR.1

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+SkippyBing 8]

Wrench,

 

Have you thought of using the engines from the Typhoon? Not sure of the thrust figures but I think it's a lot! I'm fairly sure that part of the program never had any major problems so would have been available in time frame, and it'd make sense from a logistics point of view as well.

[Guest pfunkmusik]

The Phantom was always such a mean-looking sonofa$@%&....

 

pfunk

[+Dave 2,322]

Sundowner the other day told me he had something like 13,000 F-4 pics!

[kct 5]

Does it amount to at 5GBs of HDD space? Especially if they're high-res.

[Wrench 9,846]

He has ONE game install alone that has EVERY version of EVERY Phantom EVER made ... and all with his super-hiz skins.

 

(where do you thing those 2 HAF Rhinos I did came from -- Sundowner. I just assembled the package! :yes: )

 

Skippy: thought about that too, using the EJ-2000s....

 

here's from the stock Spey's in TMF FGR2, which is the base for this:

 

SLThrustDry=54490.00

SLThrustWet=91260.00

 

here's the data for the F100s, from the stock 3W Eagle that I'm using:

 

SLThrustDry=65255.4

SLThrustWet=106001.1

 

and from the Tiffy:

 

SLThrustDry=60000.00

SLThrustWet=90000.00

 

which is LESS than the Pratts. Also I wanted to make sure it used an engine that was "available" for a 1990 start date; backstory will be in the readme ... when I remember to write it coherently!!

 

What's really funny is, after I swapped over the data, did a copy/paste for Engine2, I forgot to change the ThrustPositon=, so it basically had both engines on the same side....funny as all hell watching it try to take off, zipping around in circles, only one plume showing!!!

 

Interesing to note, nobody has commented about the 3 pak rocket pods!!

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+SkippyBing 8]

So if we put Speys in the Typhoon they'll go faster quick, who knows where I can get two of them!

 

Out of interest how does the F100 compare size wise with the Speys? I'd guess with the size of the intakes air flow wouldn't be a problem at least!

 

I think I made the same mistake with the engines on the Vixen back when I made her, all the instrument read outs went to the same place as well, took me a day to figure that one!

[Wrench 9,846]

spey:

204 inches long

44 inchs wide

 

pw f100-220:

196 inches wide

46 inches wide

 

I had to go and look it up!!

 

IIRC, the Spey Phantoms had a 'bigger butt' anyway, from the J-79 US versions ... the difference isn't toooooooo much. A good sheet metal guy can pound that out if no time!!!

 

For a what if, I think it'll be a fun bird!

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+Piecemeal 450]

When I did that F-4ES cockpit last year I also experimented with Doghouses' F-4ES_data.ini mod by exchanging the J79s for more modern F404s. When I tested it out I noticed that performance had actually deteriorated.

 

Sometimes sticking with the devil you know might be the best option in the end, but in any case, good luck with the mod

[+Sundowner 4,818]

Sundowner the other day told me he had something like 13,000 F-4 pics!

 

 

Yeah....sorry I miscounted....its nearer 20,000..........plus I'm still trying to purchase a copy of every F-4 book ever published...........

[+SkippyBing 8]

Wrench, should fit fine then, you'll just need the adjusting spanner....