P3 Current Status and the future of OFF

[+Winder 32]

Some very constructive comment.... tttiger's particularly so.

 

I agree with him, that ROF is waiting in line for online... and if there is anything the team can do to push the multiplayer side of the sim, they should.

 

 

Online there is not an awful lot we can do as to rewrite / improve the CFS3 online code would be very time consuming and not something that we would undertake unless we find no viable alternatives, moreover I can say that OFF's focus has always been the offline campaign and I believe ROFs focus is turning out to be largely online? so seems we have a balance in the marketplace.

CFS3 Online is functional but its just not very popular.

 

But I agree CFS3 was a dog no doubt about that, but its an extremely flexible engine as we have seen and also quite powerful but yes it remains the stigma - we knew that from the get go!

 

Guys thanks for the support and very kind words - yes we have lined up reviews and exposure for P3 - some has already come to fruition.

We sent out many free copies of P3 in this vein but we cannot force reviews.

Over the years we have had some good magazine coverage and exposure - sure there is always more to be done but we also have day jobs so its a balance.

 

Yes Addon Paks is what we will probably focus on in the short term but again no firm decisions have been taken.

 

Finally please simply enjoy P3 - if you are only flying QC give the campaign a whirl - its the heart of OFF - and do not worry if you need to fly at settings below this seemingly magical 100% mark - bottom line is find a settings formula that works for you and have a blast!

 

Update to 1.30c will be out in the next few days.

 

Best

 

WM

[OvS 8]

Online there is not an awful lot we can do as to rewrite / improve the CFS3 online code would be very time consuming and not something that we would undertake unless we find no viable alternatives, moreover I can say that OFF's focus has always been the offline campaign and I believe ROFs focus is turning out to be largely online? so seems we have a balance in the marketplace.

 

But I agree CFS3 was a dog no doubt about that, but its an extremely flexible engine as we have seen and also quite powerful but yes it remains the stigma - we knew that from the get go!

 

Guys thanks for the support and very kind words - yes we have lined up reviews and exposure for P3 - some has already come to fruition.

We sent out many free copies of P3 in this vein but we cannot force reviews.

Over the years we have had some good magazine coverage and exposure - sure there is always more to be done but we also have day jobs so its a balance.

 

Yes Addon Paks is what we will probably focus on in the short term but again no firm decisions have been taken.

 

Finally please simply enjoy P3 - if you are only flying QC give the campaign a whirl - its the heart of OFF - and do not worry if you need to fly at settings below this seemingly magical 100% mark - bottom line is find a settings formula that works for you and have a blast!

 

Update to 1.30c will be out in the next few days.

 

Best

 

WM

 

Just MY 2 pents on the results... in no way related to OBD or OFF Dev...

 

Thanks for all the great and kind words, to say the least, it's nice to make money from a long and hard-worked project, but it's even better to know that what you did is satisfying so many, even if our audience is small. :) If you are a true singer, you love to sing to a group no matter how big or small...if you are a fake, then it's all about money (Millie-Vanillie anyone?).

 

We tried our best and worked very hard, and expected nothing in return, so whatever becomes of OFF, it was designed on pure passion and a desire to exceed all expectations of the past. I think we accomplished that. If we add more stuff, it's simply that, just more stuff. The game and atmosphere will still be the same, top-notch, white-knuckling as you have now. Winder pushed the levels of realism in a close-combat dogfighting game, unlike anything that has been before it.

 

Did using CFS3 as a base to build on kill us? No, absolutely not... anyone that thinks this is dead wrong. What hurts us is that people just don't know how to come to terms that you can change things for the better... even with mods.

 

Out of the box RB3D was a crap game period, hence why so many times I've read in emails and posts that "I shelved RB3D until I found HASP", or "HASP makes RB3D such a fun game", and the like can be said for WFP, and FCJ comments that I've read in several places. It was all the mods that made it so good. It's graphics sucked, the game was missing a ton of stuff, it was low on historic detail, and had little if any scenery...aces anyone (20 per side???). BUT... modders made it what it is... not Dynamix.

 

Same goes for OFF. CFS3 sucks yes, but OFF BHaH takes the 1910 Model 'T' CFS3 through the body shop and on the other side comes out a classic 70's T-Bucket rail-job with a blown 454, 4-speed Munice, tied to a 4.11 rear doing the 1/4 mile in 9.4 @140.

 

The reviewers let us down... they didn't do them as promised... hopefully they read this and give us the chance we deserved. A game is not all about looking nice... and promising the world... it's about playabilty, user involvement, depth, action, atmosphere... it's what made RB3D so good based on all the mods we made.... and it's what makes OFF BHaH the best damn WWI sim ever produced... period!! Please, someone quote me on a magazine for that one!!!

 

All the best,

 

OvS

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Why don't we flood the reviewers as a community with our views!?..... If everyone on this forum emailed them, they would at least know who we are!... We as a community deserve to be heard!!!!...... I for one, am pretty fed up with reviewers (http://www.metacritic.com/games/pc/)..... So many of them are in the pocket's of the game developers, it's not true!

 

I use metacritic all the time, for the users comments (where you get the TRUTH about a product!)

 

FarCry 2 is a case in point!... The magazine reviewers said how brilliant it was.... when in fact..It was utter s**t!...but I went with the reviewers, rather than the punters on that occasion, based on Far Cry 1 which was superb!..... What a waste of money!

 

I have bought some duff games in my time, but never felt so hard done by as I felt buying that game!

But I suppose it's all relative

Edited April 22, 2009 by UK_Widowmaker

[Typhoon 5]

Further to what I said earlier in this thread, We as in the "OFF Community" have to get the word out to anyone who will listen, and even those who don't, how great this sim is. Winder and the Devs have done their part, now it it is up to us to do our part. Go to every forum you belong to and sing the praises of OFF BHaH. Tell all your friends and relatives about it. As was said above start emailing reviewers asking them what they thought of it. I'm sure if sales improve enough a new engine can be aquired that will enable easier online play. Come on guys and gals lets make a concerted effort to get the word out, It is time to do our part.

 

Tony

[Cameljockey 3]

It doesn't mention any names, but I think this guy is talking about OFF Phase 2.

http://www.helium.com/items/1103411-flight-simulation

 

CJ

[Rickitycrate 10]

Here's a thought. Any of you guys that have bought some nice piece of kit that is offered for sale on Amazon, say pedals or HOTAS or whatever, write a review of the piece of kit, a user review, and mention how bloody well it works with your favorite sim, OFF BH&H. So no maybe our sim is not for sale on Amazon but it is on Amazon. And there are other sites where the same can be done. I am amazed how little mention there is of OFF at the Aerodrome site. The fans of ROF post there all the time. Myself and some of our devs. have posted there but our community is not so well represented. I would not want to see a flaming war with ROF people but I would think we could have more of a presence there. Here is a nice post from a new user of OFF posted at the Aerodrome. Check it out, from a new user and posted recently, very nice http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/games-fl...e-s-pretty.html Maybe you are not aware of this wonderful site? Maybe I am not aware of other sites myself but let's promote, don't be shy and be sincere is all it takes. Justa suggestion. There are many things in life I love and I have a frustrating time to get the people I love to try them. Let's try to share our love with our brother/sister pilots. If we can help them they will help us. Our community is a great bunch of brilliant and generous guys. Let's help the world to come to know and love our sim too.

 

I think merchandising is a good way of raising capital too. T-shirts, OFF badge, OFF binder, hats yadeeyadeeyada. Anything that can be worn can start a conversation on the street. "Hey mate, what's that you' re wearing? Why it's from my favorite flight sim OFF BH&H and it's bloody brilliant! and so on.

[OvS 8]

Good points here guys, we need Grassroots help... and lots of it. Like it's been mentioned, we did our job, your job was 2-fold... 1. Enjoy (we hoped you would). 2. Tell everyone you know. ;)

 

Heck, my sister-in-law offered to buy it just to have it and support us... that's what we need.

 

Don't worry about getting into flame wars over this sim, you can rest assured knowing we really did our homework on many aspects. But it is a sim, no sense in arguing every rivet, so don't bother with the arguements... remember, you can always be seen as a representitive of the OFF Community... ;)

 

OvS

[BirdDogICT 3]

Good points here guys, we need Grassroots help... and lots of it. Like it's been mentioned, we did our job, your job was 2-fold... 1. Enjoy (we hoped you would). 2. Tell everyone you know. ;)

 

OvS

My Grassroots effort today was to update my review of CFS3 on Amazon.com, where I mentioned that I bought CFS3 solely for the purpose of flying OFF. Some of my original comments (wrote the review sometime last year) were only relevant to Phase 2, so I've updated them. This should appear on Amazon within 48 hours, I hope. It used to be the first review listed under CFS3, so hope it still will be.

 

Cheers

[Canvas Wings 1]

Here is a nice post from a new user of OFF posted at the Aerodrome. Check it out, from a new user and posted recently, very nice http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/games-fl...e-s-pretty.html Maybe you are not aware of this wonderful site? Maybe I am not aware of other sites

 

 

Hey, thanks Rickity! Glad you liked the post. I'm Flyboy over at the Aerodrome, but that name was apparently already in use here.

You're right, there is far more input from ROF fans than OFF in that forum; It would be great if more of us dropped in and increased the OFF presence/awareness there. In fact, I was monitoring that forum for updates on ROF when I saw an OFF posting, followed it up and bought in; so I'm living (frequently dying) proof that you can attract sales that way.

 

As an aside- some people have expressed the belief that ROF will steal OFF's thunder because it offers MP online. However, I get the impression it will be online *only*. If that's the case, many others may well prefer OFF ...because of time restraints (like many of the QC fans), older slower systems,

or the lack of toys like pedals and TrackIR without which you're kind of hooped in MP online. I myself an unlikely to buy an online-only sim...

[OvS 8]

My Grassroots effort today was to update my review of CFS3 on Amazon.com, where I mentioned that I bought CFS3 solely for the purpose of flying OFF. Some of my original comments (wrote the review sometime last year) were only relevant to Phase 2, so I've updated them. This should appear on Amazon within 48 hours, I hope. It used to be the first review listed under CFS3, so hope it still will be.

 

Cheers

 

That was you?! LOL! I read that when I was purchasing my copy of CFS3 there as well. :) Thanks for the plug!

[BirdDogICT 3]

That was you?! LOL! I read that when I was purchasing my copy of CFS3 there as well. :) Thanks for the plug!

OvS,

 

Looks like Amazon posted my edited review and kept it as the first review to popup under Combat Flight Simulator 3 reviews. The revised copy:

 

 

I bought this for the sole purpose of playing Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven and Hell, a World War I add-on for CFS3 available at http://www.overflandersfields.com/info.htm.

 

Despite some known glitches like incompatibility with virus software and jittering with dual core processors (fixed with an AMD dual processor patch) CFS3 was easy to install.

 

CFS3 is good looking and fun to fly, but due to the limitations of the flight modeling it won't completely satisfy hard core sim pilots looking for the ultimate in WWII realism. For those wanting to add-on WWII planes, scenery, airfields, etc, there are numerous mods for CFS3 available at fan sites like www.combatfs.com (you might try Mediterranean Air War or Eastern Theatre of Operations).

 

The Over Flanders Field: Between Heaven and Hell add-on is a fantastic addition to the game, and one of the few ways to engage in WWI era flight. The last great WWI flight sim was RedBaron3D, which never reached it's potential while Sierra/Dynamix was behind it. But over the years, a number of mods (Full Canvas Jacket, Western Front, Hell's Angels) made RB3D playable and more historically accurate. The authors of those mods have now taken CFS3 to unbelievable heights through OFF:BHAH, with high resolution scenery, 39 flyable aircraft, 3200+ historically accurate aircraft skins, the best campaign manager I've ever seen, etc., etc. The experience of flying a campaign in the OFF:BHAH world is simply incredible. As realistic as it gets.

 

I have played dozens of flight sims and FPS games over the years, and have to say OFF:BHAH IS THE BEST MONEY I HAVE EVER SPENT ON A GAME!!!

 

Hope this helps your sales. At least stimulate trial.

Edited April 22, 2009 by BirdDogICT

[LeBlaque 0]

If I may respectively offer a few observations, I just don't believe the marketing strategy of BHAH has done the product justice. I'm not a marketing expert, but stay pretty close to the computer gaming community, and note some of the following.

 

1) I agree with a prior poster that the price point is too high. Even the new $39.99 price is excessive for many gamers, particularly in this economy for an admitted "total conversion" project. Add the fact that many will also have to purchase CFS3 and you are looking at a price more than many full-priced games from huge development houses. We all know this is a niche product and the price point, IMHO, is counter-productive. I'd drop it in half.

 

2) I don't believe the product has been well publicized in the gaming community. Major web-based computer gaming magazines have no sign of BHAH, even military / simulation-oriented magazines only offering a smattering of OFF reviews. There is not enough print out there on BHAH and there needs to be!

 

3) It appears certain potential relationships are not being fostered. You have a periodic poster on here, MadMatt, who works for the extremely well thought of Battlefront organization (maker of CMBB, CMBO, CMAK, CMSF, etc.). They also publicize and sell other third party developers' software through digital download (www.battlefront.com). I don't see BHAH on Matrix Games and a prior poster wanted to place BHAH on www.Gogamer.com . That must have fallen through. Some of these should be pursued for possible fruition. Yes, you'll pay a distribution fee, maybe a hefty one, but make the cash killing on a later product and get your outstanding BHAH "out" for the world to see.

 

4) At this point in time, I'd much rather see sales #'s piling up as opposed to cash $$$ coming in. I did a free major scenario for Neverwinter Nights a handful of years ago (The Graveron Seduction) and didn't get a dime-- but I did see over 30K people download the scenario with the vast majority indicating enjoyment of the product. Even if the "art" you have provided in BHAH doesn't fetch a Van Gogh price, at least obtain the pleasure of seeing your work of art widely circulated.

 

Best regards,

LeBlaque

[Gous 0]

Just noticed this thread as I had been away for quite some time.

Whatever happens, we will be here to support you guys.

As for the reviews of OFF... I think that there should be payed even more attention on getting more and more sites/mags to review OFF.

I would definently buy an add-on pack for OFF.

In my opinion though, the OBD team must set sails for a somewhat different approach to WWI sim development. I think that you guys should try to get completely unhooked from CFS3 and make OFF a totally stand-alone program. I dont know how easy this is, (I dont think it is) but you have to consider it!

OFF is the greatest WWI sim to this day. And it gets better with every patch. Keep up the good work!

[Mr. Lucky 0]

I think merchandising is a good way of raising capital too. T-shirts, OFF badge, OFF binder, hats yadeeyadeeyada. Anything that can be worn can start a conversation on the street. "Hey mate, what's that you' re wearing? Why it's from my favorite flight sim OFF BH&H and it's bloody brilliant! and so on.

 

I'd love to have an OFF badge on my flight jacket. Hmmmm.

[Mr. Lucky 0]

Heck, my sister-in-law offered to buy it just to have it and support us... that's what we need.

 

 

 

OvS

I didn't know your sister-in-law was available. What she look like? Does she support multiplayer? Sorry, just couldn't resist.

 

As far as reviews, you're right. I contacted an online magazine about a review, which they encouraged and wrote one a few months before P3 came out (of P2 naturally) and never heard from them again. I never saw it in the mag either.

[+Polovski 460]

Guys thanks for the suggestions. We have of course tried or looked into many of them already. We do spend time on all these things, we have been thinking about this or making it for 4/5 years now lol.

We have been trying to get the word out there but yes we can do more. Speaking personally I've paid plenty of attention to getting reviews even though most of the time is spent making or testing things for the patches. We have had several promised or possible then didn't happen. Some have happened now including a bonus TV appearance. We have also considered many options etc, contacted several companies re distributing etc, but for various reasons (including some ridiculous ones like we get 10% distributor gets 90%! LOL) it hasn't happened.

 

Yes we'd love to not need CFS3 CD or install but that's a legal requirement.

[Olham 164]

In German Amazon, I had done the same thing - a customer's review about CFS3, with the obvious hint for BHaH.

I had read from OvS, that he had seen such (BirdDog's) review, and found it a great idea. So did I, and placed this.

 

http://www.amazon.de/rondomedia-Combat-Fli...9971&sr=1-1

 

But it may really take some time, until many people realise, how good this sim is.

[JimAttrill 24]

Despite some known glitches like incompatibility with virus software and jittering with dual core processors (fixed with an AMD dual processor patch) CFS3 was easy to install.

 

Hello from a CFS3 newbie - I have paid for OFF on the 4th April but it hasn't arrived yet. So I install CFS3 and have a go at it. My machine is an AMD 5200+ with ASUS M2N-SLI mob and ASUS 3450 (I think) graphics card. Can't be absolutely sure as that setup is at home and I am at work now.

 

I get very bad jittering at the main page of CFS3 - the one that shows the pilot stretching and the selected plane and hangar in the background. When flying it is ok, though not wonderful. Can you tell me where to get the AMD dual processor patch? Does it put the cpu into single processor mode?

 

Cheers Jim

Edited April 23, 2009 by JimAttrill

[Hoghead 0]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the one thing that I think hampers OFF/CFS3 the most. I was never a member of the CFS community but I'd be willing to bet that one of the things that really affected CFS acceptance with the flight sim crowd was it's horrible view system. The nine view system has been a standard for years, without it any flight sim is doomed from the get go. Unfortunatly OFF suffers from this problem because it's based on the CFS engine. In addition to all the other things that have been mentioned, the fact that to really get the most out of OFF requires the purchase of a TrackIR system, is something most won't consider. I've been flying OFF (Phase II and III) using padlock to get around the view system but I don't really like it. I have TrackIR on my birthday wish list so hopefully soon I can give up the crutch. As far as Phase 4 is concerned, unless you guys can get your own engine or use a more capable one like IL2's I wouldn't even bother. To much work for to little return with CFS as the base engine. That being said I would gladly purchase any additional add ons, especially the one that fill in the gaps that already exist.

 

Scott

[Gremlin_WoH 0]

Hello from a CFS3 newbie - I have paid for OFF on the 4th April but it hasn't arrived yet. So I install CFS3 and have a go at it. My machine is an AMD 5200+ with ASUS M2N-SLI mob and ASUS 3450 (I think) graphics card. Can't be absolutely sure as that setup is at home and I am at work now.

 

I get very bad jittering at the main page of CFS3 - the one that shows the pilot stretching and the selected plane and hangar in the background. When flying it is ok, though not wonderful. Can you tell me where to get the AMD dual processor patch? Does it put the cpu into single processor mode?

 

Cheers Jim

 

Your post belongs into the OFF - BHAH General Help category but here you are:

 

CPU Patches

[Olham 164]

Hoghead - there was never only a nine-view system in Phase 2. You could also use glide view or panning view;

don't know how it's called. Seeing, you got TrackIR on your list, we'll speak again, when you have it.

I'm certain, you will talk different with that device.

[tttiger 0]

Hey everyone,

 

In addition to all the other things that have been mentioned, the fact that to really get the most out of OFF requires the purchase of a TrackIR system, is something most won't consider.

 

Scott

 

 

Sorry, Scott, I find that impossible to believe. Fact is, to the get the most out of every flight sim, you need TrackIR. If that is hampering OFF sales, it hampers the sales of every sim.

 

EVERY serious flight simmer I know has TrackIR. It's as essential as a joystick. I don't have any financial interest in TrackIR but I've owned every version since they first came out. I can't imagine flying without one.

 

If you amortize the cost of TIR over the tens of thousands of hours you're likely to use it over many years, it's VERY cheap entertainment.

 

If your birthday isn't real soon (like today), sell some blood, rob a bank, whatever it takes...

 

Pol, that's one of the tradeoffs in dealing with publishers. In my retirement, I've been writing (and selling) books. And, generally I get only a 10 percent royalty (on some deals 35 percent), the publisher and book dealers get the rest.

 

But 10 percent of lots and lots of sales is better than 100 percent of only a very few sales (it sounds like that's all you've got right now).

 

You guys have gone about as far as you can on the do-it-yourself approach.

 

We all love this sim and want to see it continue. But you can't do it alone and a second-hand reviews on Amazon aren't going to get it done. Off NEEDS to be for sale on Amazon (and lots of other retail outlets).

 

You guys are extraordinary modders but I think you need a good business manager as well (not me, I'd have you in bankruptcy in a week ).

 

Those publishers and wholesalers and retailers actually provide an essential service. That's why they can charge so much. It's worth it....

 

Tony

Edited April 23, 2009 by tttiger

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Regarding TrackIR... It works brilliantly with all MS sims.... It is only a dissapointment in IL2..due to that sim's total lack of 6do..But in OFF, it is sublime!

 

I have totally dropped IL2 now, because OFF out performs it with it's superior TrackIR views...and I just cannot even face a simulator without my beloved piece of Kit!

 

If I couldn't use my TrackIR... I would cease flying!...period!...it is THAT important to my enjoyment!

Edited April 23, 2009 by UK_Widowmaker

[Siggi 10]

If I couldn't use my TrackIR... I would cease flying!...period!...it is THAT important to my enjoyment!

 

Ditto. :yes:

[Olham 164]

I wouldn't need it so much for the hunting and killing;

but for the feel, the overall view, for enjoying the landscapes and cloud formations,

the wingmen dancing behind you... TrackIR makes the most of all this!