Intermediate DM 1.6 for BHaH campaign now available

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

A complete intermediate damage model for all of the aircraft currently in BHaH 1.30c, including all campaign aircraft, is now available for download from the 3rd party mods and download forum! In addition to DM modifications for all of the aircraft in BHaH, this update also contains a few bugfixes that may have prevented certain aircraft from being flyable in previous versions. All aircraft in this version have been tested in QC to insure that this is no longer a problem.

 

Just like earlier versions, this mod is meant to represent a middle-ground between the easy and hardcore damage models already present in BHaH v.1.30c. Hit points for ailerons, wings, and aileron cables are changed so that these components are now somewhat weaker than in the hardcore DM, but stronger than the normal DM. In addition, values for rudder and elevator cables are somewhat strengthend to be more similar to the values for the aileron cables. Values for all other components are unchanged.

 

Installation instructions are contained in a readme file included in the IntDM1_6 zip file. Please note that this mod simply replaces the xdp files for each aircraft currently available in BHaH. No other changes are made to any other files. If you wish, make a backup of the aircraft folder before installation.

 

I hope you enjoy this mod, which itself is a mod of BHaH, the wonderful mod of CFS3 by OBD Software. Thanks goes out to OBD Software for making BHaH such an enjoyable mod in the first place, and for their great support of Over Flander's Fields. If you have any questions or suggestions, or experience any problems with the installation of this mod, you can reach me on this forum.

 

Finally, although this is a "complete" mod, no changes have been made to the threshold values in any of the aircraft xdp files. As discovered by Fortiesboy and myself, threshold values control the application of most of the "special effects," such as sound effects and visual damage, including rips and tears, which occur to damaged aircraft in the game. Fortiesboy and I have discovered that lowering these values somewhat result in more effects being seen, both visually and in the actual effects on the flight of damaged aircraft in the game. Depending on interest, Fortiesboy and I may consider making further adjustments to the xdp files and releasing a mod containing these changes to the community. Your comments and suggestions are welcome.

[OlPaint01 0]

Hello P-W

 

Great news...You and Fortiesboy have done an excellent job. The QC version DM felt good to me. So I am glad to have the Intermediate version for Campaign now as well. When do you anticipate your mod will be posted to Downloads Section?

 

Never mind, I found the link on your post in the 3rd Party Mods section. I was so excided that I read right over the reference, Duh!

 

OlPaint01

Edited May 16, 2009 by OlPaint01

[Gous 0]

This is brilliant! Thank you so much guys.

[Winston DoRight 3]

...... this update also contains a few bugfixes that may have prevented certain aircraft from being flyable in previous versions......

 

Could you explain more about the statement above please?

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Could you explain more about the statement above please?

Sure. Earlier versions of the mod may have contained an error that made OFF refuse to load certain aircraft in QC mode. However, I did not discover the error until I started developing the mod for use in the campaign by copying and pasting files from the QC folders into the other folders for each airplane. I believe any errors that were created were in the copying and pasting, not in the QC files themselves, so that is why I say there may have been bugs. I tested each and every aircraft this time before releasing the mod to make sure this would not occur with the new version.

 

If you are using previous versions of the mod for QC only and are not experiencing any problems, then you don't really need to download this update.

[cptroyce 0]

PW..great news..not only for the choice in DM but also, perhaps opening the door for 3rd party tweaking of the OFF/CFS files. I sense an FM mod in the air... ;>)

 

Royce

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

PW..great news..not only for the choice in DM but also, perhaps opening the door for 3rd party tweaking of the OFF/CFS files. I sense an FM mod in the air... ;>)

 

Royce

Hmmm, an FM mod? I wonder....

[redwolf 19]

Will give it a whirl. It just might be the sweet spot for me. Thank you!

Edited May 17, 2009 by redwolf

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

The following are some examples of the effects Fortiesboy and I have seen from playing with the threshold values in my Intermediate DM:

 

 

 

 

If anyone is interested, I can upload a test file of the Alb III with these DM changes for you to test for yourself to this thread.

Edited May 18, 2009 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Is anyone interested in this? Hello! Anyone there? Anyone?

[Madmatt 0]

I am interested but am not clear on what you meant when you said this, "As discovered by Fortiesboy and myself, threshold values control the application of most of the "special effects," such as sound effects and visual damage, including rips and tears, which occur to damaged aircraft in the game. Fortiesboy and I have discovered that lowering these values somewhat result in more effects being seen, both visually and in the actual effects on the flight of damaged aircraft in the game."

 

I get the point that by changing the threshold values, you could trigger the various graphical damage and sound effects, BUT you also said that those changes DO affect the flight characteristics of damaged planes. Now, wouldn't that be yet another Damage Model varient then? And in fact, it would be more of an *Easy* damage model varient I would guess because you are lowering the thresholds, or in other words making those effects occur sooner than normal. I think that's what is a bit confusing to people.

 

Maybe if you could clarify what your "threshold change mod" would do above and beyond what your new intermediate damage mod does, then people would have a better handle on if this is something they want to see or not.

 

Thanks!

 

Madmatt

[Winston DoRight 3]

I just installed your intermediate damage model 1.6 file and it seems like it's just right. Thanks for developing this.

 

Yes, I'd also be interested in any improvements to the visual damage models as I see very little damage to any aircraft unless it's major. It would seem as hard as my aircraft is to control after taking some damage, I should be able to see more than just a few bullet holes.

[+Winder 32]

I'd be interested in hearing how the kill rates go with this mod...

 

Ta

 

WM

[Fortiesboy 3]

Maybe if you could clarify what your "threshold change mod" would do above and beyond what your new intermediate damage mod does, then people would have a better handle on if this is something they want to see or not.

 

Thanks!

 

Madmatt

 

Madmatt S!

 

If I could come in here to explain our take on this. What we seem to see is that there is a situation reached, when the plane takes several bullet hits, that points are accrued so that the computer now regards that part of the plane to be damaged and/ or no longer working. E.g a wing.

The differences between the Normal and hardcore damage models is determined by the points needed to reach that situation. ( Prop Wasches Intermediate DM is between the two !)

 

So, when this situation is reached, the plane generally starts to go down because the computer doesn't regard the wing as working.

 

Because it is another set of parameters, ( Threshold values ), that determine when the computer will SHOW the effect of the defunct wing, i.e it coming off or, splintered etc , then you won't see that happen - until the threshold values are reached as well.

It is our opinion that the sim tends to allow the parts ( wings etc ) to be damaged and thus defunct, before the threshold values are reached.

Thus many may see the planes go down intact.They are assumed to be damaged by the observer because of their behaviour, sinking down or spiralling down, but essentially always intact *

 

The wings coming off and engines blowing up seem to observed only when the Break value and those just preceding it, is reached- and in the vanilla sim they are, IOHO, too high to be reached - in most cases, the plane has already gone down.

We are trying to marry the two, so that the wing being defunct coincides with the wing splintering or coming off.

 

* Of course, prior to the demise of the plane the observer ( you) may see bits fly off and smoke etc,

this is because the threshold values which creates those effects is quite low, and thus is readily reached.

 

For the adventurous among you, my earlier thread in the 3rd Party and Mods forum gives a step by step guide how you can vary the threshold values in the planes, one at a time. ( so just try one to fly in QC, for curiosity? )

You may or may not like the effects, but you choose the values thus you make it more or less "Arcade" , for want of a better word... certainly it makes a change. -lol

 

The devs have kindly given permission for these files to be tinkered with - to be used obviously only on a personal basis and acknowledging that they are their files, of course, to be used only within OFF3, the greatest sim it has been my pleasure to fly.

 

Prop- Wasches idea is to make a change to all the planes, QC and campaign , into one downloadable file which you can try if you wish.

It is a WIP and may or may not be feasible, but we'll give it a try.

 

It is our way of acknowledging this as the WWl sim that all the others must be measured against, and to try to make a contribution to it as a thank you for all the fun it has given us.

[Womenfly2 0]

Sounds like a fantastic idea!

 

You may what to do a Beta test with a few here to find the right " between the two" DM's as you stated Fortiesboy. Then, with permission from OBD, to offer this in a DM mod download package.

 

May what to setup a thread, just for this Testing and comments within the test group.

 

I do like the effects show and the "threshold values" in the posted pictures by Herr Prop-Wasche, looks pretty real.

 

Just a suggestion, cheers.

WF2

[+Winder 32]

Sounds like a fantastic idea!

 

You may what to do a Beta test with a few here to find the right " between the two" DM's as you stated Fortiesboy. Then, with permission from OBD, to offer this in a DM mod download package.

 

May what to setup a thread, just for this Testing and comments within the test group.

 

I do like the effects show and the "threshold values" in the posted pictures by Herr Prop-Wasche, looks pretty real.

 

Just a suggestion, cheers.

WF2

 

Yes and could you guys also build up some stats - kill rates etc I will use the info for P4...what we don't want is massive kill rates every mission...(IMO)

 

WM

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Thanks for your comments, guys and gal! I am interested in developing this idea further, but I am being held up at the moment by some serious RL issues that demand my attention at present. In the meantime, I can upload a "test" file for people to look at if they would like to see how some of our preliminary changes to the xdp files effect airplane performance.

 

What Fortiesboy and I are aiming for is a DM that will have "kill rates" somewhat between the current hardcore and normal damage models. If we do this right, I think we will be able to have aircraft that get and show more damage than currently, but that remain relatively difficult to shoot down. Of course, these changes will effect ALL aircraft, including the player's, so YOU will also suffer the consequences! :black eye:

[Fortiesboy 3]

"Thanks for the interest shown in this. We will upload a couple or more amended files for you guys to evaluate and comment on, but we will nevertheless battle on to finish creating a whole download which will use Prop-Wasches intermediate damage file ,with the altered threshold values that we think will give a "slightly more pyrotechnic " experience, in terms of effects.

 

(Don't forget, you can play with the values in your own install - should give you something to do - lol )

 

That will take a little time, as we have to pass files between us and evaluate,

then input the final files into every plane folder in the sim.

 

In the meantime, when evaluating, and before you may think it too easy, may I say how I test these files.

 

I fly in CFS3 QC, SE5a Viper is my plane. I use fair weather and start at 10000 ft.

I set the Enemy skill to Ace, ( 1 v1 ) Enemy situation to normal and Enemy ground skill to rookie. Flak density to low.

 

In workshops I have the flight model at Realistic with players guns at Normal. Main guns and rear guns at Normal. Wind and gun jams On

The AI Gun Fire range at Easy ( i.e. close in )

Auto mixture On, aircraft stress On, Limited ammo on

 

In flight I fly ALWAYS in cockpit; No HUD; no enemy pointer; NO labels

For these test purpose only I use padlock - but in order to mainly assess the damage . I work it like this.

Early on I padlock the Enemy plane. Then i press the padlock toggle button and fight in ordinary trackir cockpit mode.

When i think I have damaged the enemy, I go to Player/target view ( via joystick button ) and then i can see the extent of the damage caused.

 

If you find you shoot him down too easy, try giving him a wingman, and you stay on your own!

 

IMHO, you versus the enemy and the wingman is about the S.A position that you are in at least in a campaign dogfight.

Flown with no aids, this is not an easy sim. And flown like that, with damage and effect models similar to what Prop wasche and i are trying to create, you will be hard pushed to get your 17 hours.

Mind you, having said that, I am a sometime campaign player- I use mostly QC.

 

Winder- As for kill rates, although no expert, I see no reason why the threshold values which we decide on for Prop wasche's intermediate damage model, could not be used in your hardcore DM.? There should be different outcomes? "

[+Polovski 460]

Guys if you send me the details of the generic changes via PM? We may be able to make changes quickly to all the files depending on what exactly is changed, for a test.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Guys if you send me the details of the generic changes via PM? We may be able to make changes quickly to all the files depending on what exactly is changed, for a test.

Hi, Pol!

 

Ha, ha, Fortiesboy and I have to first come to an agreement about exactly what changes we want to make! Actually, we are still fairly early in the developing and testing process of the threshold values. He favors more of a "uniform threshold value approach," and I favor more of a "stepped value" approach, if that makes any sense. I think the stepped approach is somewhat similar to the approach you took with these values, just set somewhat lower to insure that more effects are triggered.

 

Another thing we need to agree on is whether to make identical changes to all of the damage models (easier), or whether we need to make individual adjustments for each plane (more work). For instance, should an aircraft that has wings rated at 112 damage points have the same threshold values as a plane with wings rated at only 72 damage points? My initial thoughts on this are "no," even though it will probably mean more work.

 

Once we iron these issues out, we will be more than happy to send you our changes. In the meantime, I can send you a file containing some changes to the Alb DIII. This is my "test platform" which I have been using to test changes to the threshold values and the overall DM. Look for it in a PM.

 

Thanks again!

[+Polovski 460]

OK then maybe best if you work out what to do first.

 

As per PM the thresholds are not values they are percent. 100 is 100%.

 

If it's global settings we can do that fairly easily, if it's individual changes to different craft then we can't. However if you send edit a set of _SQD aircraft then we can make the variants others from it quite quickly.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Will do!

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Thank you to everyone who has downloaded my damage mod! Last I checked, the mod has been downloaded 111 times! I hope that you liked the mod and have continued to use it. If so, it would be great if a few of you would post your thoughts and comments about the mod, including installation and gameplay issues. Have you noticed any appreciable differences between my mod and either the normal or hardcore version? For better or worse? Are all components (wings, ailerons, elevators, etc.) working as you think they should? What changes, if any, would you recommend?

 

For those who tried my mod but gave it up, a few brief words about why you went back to either the normal or hardcore version would be helpful. At present, do you think my mod is too easy or too hard?

 

One reason I am asking these questions is because Fortiesboy and I are currently working on a possible addition to the mod which will add some lower threshold values to each plane's xdp file, which should make several sound and visual effects appear more easily than in any of the current damage models. Since these effects also have an influence on flight dynamics, these threshold changes should make it somewhat easier to shoot down enemy planes or for them to shoot you down. Currently, I plan to only offer these Threshold changes with my Intermediate DM, but if the consensus is that this make the sim too easy, then I will consider offering it as an addition to the hardcore DM, as well.

 

All thoughts and comments will be appreciated.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[Winston DoRight 3]

I'm using your intermediate DM 1.6 and I find it just perfect. The installation as instructed was easy and flawless and it's easy to go back to normal or hardcore DM's to compare. I wouldn't change a thing about how it is written as it is now because it seems spot on between normal and hardcore. Isn't that what was intended? If people want easier to shoot down and be shot down, they can just go back to normal DM by running the normal DM file as provided by the devs, right?

 

I hope you continue your efforts towards making the damage more visible because I experience significant control damage to my own aircraft but don't see anything on an exterior view of my aircraft except a very few bullet holes. If I can hardly control my craft I'd expect to see at least some fabric ripped away if not pieces missing.

 

This mod is the best thing so far......... second only to my earlier tracer mod!

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

I also think your tracer mod is the cat's meow! Second only to my damage model, of course!