Have to smile .....

[shredward 12]

Well said Hellshade!

 

My sentiments exactly.

Cheers,

shredward

[BirdDogICT 3]

...don't waste everyones time trash talking the other. It's fine to put out honest, respectful opinions about why you find one game more satisfying or fun than another, but flame talk about other games (or worse, the people who play them) is childish.

 

Hellshade,

 

The ROF crowd has really turned me off with all of their trash talk, enough that I am not at all interested in buying ROF. Totally lacking in honesty and respect...

 

Although this may sound really silly, I still remember getting flamed by some jerk on a Flying Corps board years ago when I asked for advice on updating to a graphics card that would support VESA graphics. That one thoughtless reply to a noob (me) completely turned me off to being involved online.

 

Cheers

Edited June 7, 2009 by BirdDogICT

[+Polovski 460]

There is no need to only like one sim.

 

I own FE and the addon and have tried one or two mods. Good fun for a quick blast. Certainly I will buy RoF as I have said many times (if it's available in Europe?).

 

I hope that just like FE it gets modded though for single player, as that seems to be lacking from initial reports and I have little time these days. That side could take more time to build up. One thing that would irk me if it's mainly online only is I don't fancy starting online 3 months later than Russia/US who have been able to buy it months before and had time to practice - Europeans will all be cannon fodder online. Online takes more time for me as you need to get in, setup, meet up and chat with others which is great just takes more time to find a decent game etc. Teamspeak or Roger Wilco in multiplayer games is an essential tool and although totally against WW1 if you do not use it you will be at a disadvantage.

[Hellshade 110]

A good point, Pol. Having not had the chance to play RoF for months during beta testing, I'm sure I'll be a puddle of noobsauce on the ground in no time flat when flying against a veteran of the game.

 

Still, my bigger concern by far is security. In a competative on-line gaming environment, there's always those few folks who figure out how to hack the system so they can feel "big" winning against others by cheating. That will kill a community fast if the developers can't put a stop to it ASAP. Lets face it, if you fly against a guy who's guns don't jam, he never runs out of ammo and seems impervious to damage, honest gamers are going to lose interest in the game almost immediately. That's a true "Game Over" scenerio for most people. A lot of faults and flaws in a game can be forgiven, however when people get cheated out of a position in an on-line ladder the real screaming begins and it's next to impossible for a developer to recover their reputation from that once it's lost. Lets hope they either do it right or invest in PunkBuster, because no matter how good every other aspect of the game is, if the skies are filled with lame cheaters, the only taking off I'm going to be doing is taking RoF off my hard drive. I sincerely hope that doesn't happen.

 

/salute

Hellshade

[godzilla1985 0]

Hellshade I understand were your coming from but RoF isn't being marketed as an MP only game like the two games you mentioned, and honestly I wish they would have just planned the released RoF as MP only, it would have saved a lot of arguing. Now a lot of guys are talking doing like you will do, RoF for MP and BHaH for SP and that seems IMHO to be the best fit for everyone who wants to fly serious WWI MP but wants a serious WWI SP game aspect too. My ax to grind isn't with guys like you, it's the zealous RoF fans who try to dismiss out of hand BHaH's huge advantage over RoF in SP mode, come on guys give credit where credit is due, but they honestly try to convince people RoF will be much better then BHaH in all SP aspects right out of the gate when they know it's not true. Then they proceed to go on trying to convince people that BHaH is just a mediocre flight sim mod based on an obsolete crappy game engine. It has me thinking how can they just dismiss BHaH out of hand like that? Have they tried BHaH to arrive at that fact? I doubt it or they wouldn't be making these statements and would probably share you setiments instead Hellshade. Personally I doubt RoF SP will ever approach the level BHaH has achieved with it's SP campaign and immersion, and the AI in BHaH will be very tough for RoF to best it in SP or MP, equal maybe, but probably not best it. But was that ever RoF's intentions and thats the crux of it, why won't the RoF dev's just say RoF is geared for MP with the SP aspect being more for training and recruitment into MP squadrons, don't expect the SP experiance like BHaH cause it won't be in there, it was never our intentions to have that level of SP in there. If I was running a virtual squad on RoF or thinking of setting one up, where do you think I would go to try and staff my flight from? Yes I would be looking at that stat page neoqb will have of everyone who plays this game just like my son was recruited into a clan for COD4 for the xbox 360. There are a very few flight sims that give you that "you are there" feeling in SP, RB/RB3D, BHaH, BoB II and B-17 TM8th are just some members of that club that I don't think RoF will ever gain membership to or honestly even wanted to try too. But thats okay really it is..... but please neoqb just stop trying to sell me or anyone an MP game in MP/SP clothing.

[Hellshade 110]

The ROF crowd has really turned me off with all of their trash talk, enough that I am not at all interested in buying ROF. Totally lacking in honesty and respect...

 

Unfortunately, in my experience the trash talkers tend to be the same highly competitive people with the maturity of a 12 year old who love nothing more than winning by cheating. They base their self worth on the fact that they are playing the "best" game and they are the "best" at it, even if they have to cheat to win. It's quite possible that the ROF game will soar to success or cash and burn based on it's level of security to prevent hacking.

 

Me personally? I'm 40 years old. My self worth comes from providing a good home and life for my family. The games are wonderful, but winning one has never gotten me a promotion at work, paid my mortgage or awarded me a Nobel Peace Prize. If I ever have to cheat to win or trash talk others to feel good about myself I'll check into enrolling into the nearest middle school. And I'll have my wife ban me from being on the message boards after 8pm on a school night. :)

 

/salute

Hellshade

[OvS 8]

What bothers me the most are the fans that do the smack talking. As a developer, I never liked guys doing that. You almost want to ask them why. When you see how much work it takes to make a game, how much time you spend researching, modeling, creating databases and all that, you empathize with another team rather than bash them. For us, RoF is competition, but friendly at worst. We need them to succeed, and not fail. It will benefit both of us.

 

If folks see BHaH as the go to for SP, hopefully the die-hard MP guys will give it a taste as SP can be far more rewarding than MP on many scales. If guys that are die-hard SP, maybe they'll give RoF a try on MP. It works both ways. We do have an MP side of BHaH that is VERY good despite all the bashing it takes. Albeit it's limited to 16 players, but really... 8 is more than enough. RB3D's all out wars were the best, but they lacked a lot of details... in the ground and in the air. It took a lot of guys many years to get RB3D to have balloons, moving fronts... etc.

 

If RoF come with all the bells and whistles out of the box for MP, hey... I'll see you all in the sky! But in the meantime, the RoF fans need and should respect the ground BHaH walks on as we do for them. To survive the game market, we need each other and can compliment one another... just like WFP and FCJ/HASP did for RB3D.

 

All the best and as always, you guys ROCK!! Thanks for the support!

 

OvS

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

The main concern I have (and this extends to that awful 'Steam' thing)..is the having to be connected to their Servers all the time.

 

Steam is bad enough, and I don't have a problem with on-line activation..but being attached to a Russian Server constantly does nothing for my confidence!

[jayo 0]

Horses for courses.

 

Waste of time comparing.

 

Each Sim caters for specific wants,BHaH for immersion/historical realism,TW (IMO) for the fantastic MOD community,Falcon4 for the "i really wanna fly this plane like real life".....etc etc

 

Me?.......i love em all.

[Dirk98 0]

Horses for courses.

 

Waste of time comparing.

 

 

No, don't think so, it's not 'waste of time'. That's how one forms up his opinions and preferences - always in comparison.

 

I posted my impression of RoF in the same thread with 'pixelated ground' on SimHQ, and that's how I found the game:

 

Good review overall, Dobby. But I must also add that after OFF3 the world down below in RoF looks totally desolate. It's hard to get used to it after OFF3, where the ground and skies are full of motion, war and purpose everywhere you go. Definitely RoF fails to deliver in this section, it feels more like a refined ideal non-populated world. The MP and online servers hopefully will compensate for the lack of life in RoF (it's not dynamic in the core like OFF3 is), so now it's more about excellent airplanes simulation and GFX engine novelty sans minimally addictive gameplay (not existent), until a solid MP patch is released, I hope so.

 

SimHQ RoF review by Dobby

 

Thanks,

Dirk.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Dirk98

[Cameljockey 3]

I read your post at SimHQ Dirk. I'm just waiting to see how long it takes for Ming and Flyretired to get on your six and beat you down 'til you die.

 

CJ

[Womenfly2 0]

I did Beta testing for RoF. So I flew the SP missions a lot, do to times I could be available for MP. I do have High Speed Internet and a pretty good computer, Quad core with a 8800 512m card.

 

Even with the limited SP play the missions in RoF are still loads of fun and very hard. Then there is the flight training with Eddie, if you can just get through the training alive, which by-the-way has 5 consecutive lessons, each one being depended on the previous one being successfully completed before your allowed to move on ....... its worth buying it just for that.

 

I will add if you are not a patient person, then skip the 3 to 5 minute engine starting procedure which includes sitting there for a few minutes waiting for the engine in the SPAD or D.VII to warm-up. No sudden scrambling here when your field is attacked!.

 

As with BH&H if you want to play MP you need High Speed Internet for best play. BH&H does have the best SP play, but RoF is still an infant at this point and from the beginning was never designed for SP anyway.

 

I am not much for MP, did it in IL2 ... did not like it, I do prefer SP and with all game developments one must look at what the end customer wants, if you do not, you spin-in. So I believe SP will evolve as time goes on, maybe through third party modder's? if not RoF itself.

 

RoF is very realistic as far as the planes go, excellent DM's and FM's with the support of ground objects a close second. It will be improved upon continually, that is the base of this sim. With that said, part of the on-line requirement is that every time you login to the server it checks for the latest upgrade or patch on your machine, then downloads it before you sign in. This is done so in MP everyone has the same revision of the game, just as you would need if playing BH&H or flying a mission.

 

It also records your stats on a server for MP too, which everyone in MP can see .... bad thing is if your good they gang-up on you!

 

I fly both, each one is great in their own way. A lot of hard work has gone into both for our enjoyment and one has to give a lot of credit to them for even attempting to bring a WW-1 sim to market, anyway. The alternative is, none.

 

So support both, enjoy both and just have fun flying the friendly skies???.

 

My 2-cents worth,

WF2

Edited June 8, 2009 by Womenfly2

[Dirk98 0]

I read your post at SimHQ Dirk. I'm just waiting to see how long it takes for Ming and Flyretired to get on your six and beat you down 'til you die.

 

CJ

 

I know some of the developers and they agree in general, but they say they have vision for RoF ahead, or smth like that, we'll see.

 

Ming is not a factor for me, and not in RoF. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying RoF is weak.

 

Cheers,

Dirk.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Dirk98

[jayo 0]

QUOTE (jayo @ Jun 8 2009, 04:32 AM)

Horses for courses.

 

Waste of time comparing.

 

 

 

No, don't think so, it's not 'waste of time'. That's how one forms up his opinions and preferences - always in comparison.

 

FE (and the rest of the TW series') has elements that i really like that BHaH doesnt,and vice-versa,none have ALL the qualities i would like.

I would compare the WoX series,they are developed by the same person\s. I would not want to compare against different developers.

[Dirk98 0]

Even with the limited SP play the missions in RoF are still loads of fun and very hard. Then there is the flight training with Eddie, if you can just get through the training alive, which by-the-way has 5 consecutive lessons, each one being depended on the previous one being successfully completed before your allowed to move on ....... its worth buying it just for that.

 

It's just good for a few hours, WF2. Overall all missions are horrendously repetitive, they are all scripted. The only chance will be some sort of dynamic mission randomizers, front moving and statistics add-on tools and scripts, that already have shown very positivie results in IL2, LockOn online war servers, but they are few and only online, so I'm not sure if you understand what I'm talking about.

 

Cheers,

Dirk.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Dirk98

[Dirk98 0]

QUOTE (jayo @ Jun 8 2009, 04:32 AM)

Horses for courses.

 

Waste of time comparing.

 

 

 

No, don't think so, it's not 'waste of time'. That's how one forms up his opinions and preferences - always in comparison.

 

FE (and the rest of the TW series') has elements that i really like that BHaH doesnt,and vice-versa,none have ALL the qualities i would like.

I would compare the WoX series,they are developed by the same person\s. I would not want to compare against different developers.

 

No problem with that. But how different or same names of the developers can affect your opinions about games? I find it's natural people compare some aspects of two different ww1 flightsim titles. Unless only if they haven't flown one or both of them, then it's waste of time, of course.

 

Dirk.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Dirk98

[Womenfly2 0]

It's just good for a few hours, WF2. Overall all missions are horrendously repetitive, they are all scripted. The only chance will be some sort of dynamic mission randomizers, front moving and statistics add-on tools and scripts, that already have shown very positivie results in IL2, LockOn online war servers, but they are few and only online, so I'm not sure if you understand what I'm talking about.

 

Cheers,

Dirk.

 

I do understand. Remember that RoF was designed for MP from the start. So SP is not a main priority. But I am sure it will change as RoF evolves.

 

Cheers,

WF2

Edited June 8, 2009 by Womenfly2

[Dirk98 0]

I do understand. Remember that RoF was designed for MP from the start. So SP is not a main priority. But I am sure it will chance as RoF evolves.

 

Cheers,

WF2

 

 

We'll see, we'll see yet. But I agree, I'm biased - I love OFF3 and I like RoF. ;)

 

Cheers,

Dirk.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Dirk98

[Cameljockey 3]

I know some of the developers and they agree in general, but they say they have vision for RoF ahead, or smth like that, we'll see.

 

Ming is not a factor for me, and not in RoF. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying RoF is weak.

 

Cheers,

Dirk.

 

I am very interested in RoF (hence my reading reviews and personal opinions at the RoF site and others) and would seriously consider purchasing it were it not for the log on requirement every time the game is played. After reading some first impressions and learning more about the game, I believe, for my brand of simming, I made the right decision in purchasing OFF BH&H. I have been an avid RBII/3D flier for years and absolutely love the dynamic campaign in it. BH&H just took the RB ball and ran the whole 100yds with it. Since MP and scripted missions don't appeal to me personally, I don't see where RoF has anything to offer me at this point. I will, however, keep an eye on it and if the situation changes as far as a dynamic campaign and no DRM are concerned, I'll reconsider my position. At this point it's a no-go for me.

 

CJ

[rabu 9]

I know some of the developers and they agree in general, but they say they have vision for RoF ahead, or smth like that, we'll see.

 

Ming is not a factor for me, and not in RoF. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying RoF is weak.

 

Cheers,

Dirk.

 

 

I can't understand Ming most of the time.. he likes to try to speak in riddles, maybe he was a David Caradine Kung Fu groupie? Anyway, he is there all the time, like many of the others but he isn't one of the ones who gets overly defensive and most of the time, he is so vague you can't tell anyway. FlyX is also pretty open to comments, he is just defensive as he has put a lot of work into ROF, but some of the other forum members are arrogant to say the least and will jump on you with all weapons drawn if anything is said negative about ROF that seems to hit at it's currant weaknesses. And, it has many, IMHO, but that's mainly because they have rushed it to sales.. probably are desperatly in need of some money; they are a commercial vernture, after all, so it's understandable. I think their intentions are really good though (the developers) and I have a lot of respect for all they have done and are trying to do. Some of the features of ROF.. the lighting, clouds, DM etc. are really amazing.

[rabu 9]

I do understand. Remember that RoF was designed for MP from the start. So SP is not a main priority. But I am sure it will change as RoF evolves.

 

Cheers,

WF2

 

 

I agree, WF2, that's why I've also repeatedly brought that up. I do hope they can change things though, they will get a much wider audience if they do, and maybe they can eventually. I feel the same way about scripted missions, they are fun, but only a few times, but with their mission generator, I think they are counting on their players to create a constant flow of new missions. The only problem with that, if one even cares, is how historically accurate they might be. With OFF, I know what we are getting and I know it is as accurate as possible.

 

I was flying this weekend near Verdun during the huge battle.. April 1916 N31 out of Toul in my little Nieuport 11.We had to escort a couple of others in our group who were to take recon photos across the trenches since all the regular two seaters were busy elsewhere. Approaching the battle was incredibly exciting, the flashes of lighting and the flashes of ground explosions along with the noise.. just amazing and believable. Bad weather, dark clouds and later rain and wind hit us really hard. We ran into a few enemy planes and shot one down, but managed to get things done and half way back we were flying low to avoid huge clouds, when I got a bit of damage from flak or was it some pot shot from below? Anyway, I limped all the way back across the lines with my engine sputtering and half running, came in for a landing too slowely, stalled at about 100 feet and slid sideways into the ground a horrible crash.. "KIA" and after having made it all the way through the mission! Things like that, unscripted non repeatable experiences with real situations taking place around you are really amazing, IMHO, and are what makes OFF the best WWI sim out there.. if you like that sort of thing.

 

But I'm also looking forward to flying in ROF, not MP, I have no time to schedule it, but just to enjoy all the work they have put into it, like you said, it looks like a lot of fun too.

 

Cheers,

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

lol...Bit like IL2...Play the game...avoid the Forums!!!

[themightysrc 5]

I'd just like to add my ha'penneth at this juncture.

 

I've been doing WWI flight sims (and very badly too, I might add) since I chanced upon RB3D many years back. Basically what grabbed me was the long term immersion of a campaign - too many years doing FRP and reading books on WWI - and I played RB3D to death. After a layoff (for various reasons) I came back to RB3D, still as a campaign game, SP, and patched the hell out of it to make it look and fly better, which again improved immersion for me.

 

I bought FE soon after it came out, and whilst it was a lovely looking game in many ways, glaring omissions such as a decent campaign game, couldn't be compensated by the 3rd party mod support. Even Bloody April was simply a superficial (if laudable) attempt to improve on the original game.

 

So, I've gravitated towards OFF:BH&H, where I am now. Still SP, but with the depth, detail and historicity that FE and RB3D combined lacked.

 

I've considered carefully whether I will plump for RoF, and the answer - for the moment, at least, is alas no. I wish to play when *I* want to, and rarely have much time to spend, so that immediately mitigates againt RoF. Secondly, I don't like the idea of MP only, and having to log on in the hope of flying. What happens if (God forbid) sales aren't good enough to justify those servers remaining online? What happens to RoF then? If the SP is only for practice, or limited as per FE, then what about those of us who've lashed out X quid on a copy? That doesn't even take into account the potential perils of being online to play. Finally, the real killers are the system spec needed - I'm in no position to upgrade again/buy a new PC - just to be able to benefit from all the lovely eye candy, and the lack of aircraft in the game as standard. I understand the sales model (buy planes as and when you want them), but two aircraft to begin with is, I feel, rather taking the piss.

 

Still, it's not released yet, and perhaps I'll be proven wrong in all my concerns. I'll check again once the Great Unwashed finally have their mitts on it.

[Siggi 10]

A good point, Pol. Having not had the chance to play RoF for months during beta testing, I'm sure I'll be a puddle of noobsauce on the ground in no time flat when flying against a veteran of the game.

 

Still, my bigger concern by far is security. In a competative on-line gaming environment, there's always those few folks who figure out how to hack the system so they can feel "big" winning against others by cheating. That will kill a community fast if the developers can't put a stop to it ASAP. Lets face it, if you fly against a guy who's guns don't jam, he never runs out of ammo and seems impervious to damage, honest gamers are going to lose interest in the game almost immediately. That's a true "Game Over" scenerio for most people. A lot of faults and flaws in a game can be forgiven, however when people get cheated out of a position in an on-line ladder the real screaming begins and it's next to impossible for a developer to recover their reputation from that once it's lost. Lets hope they either do it right or invest in PunkBuster, because no matter how good every other aspect of the game is, if the skies are filled with lame cheaters, the only taking off I'm going to be doing is taking RoF off my hard drive. I sincerely hope that doesn't happen.

 

/salute

Hellshade

 

The incredible irony is that ViKs, one of ROF's main developers, was one of the worst online cheats in the IL2 community, and a member of a russian squad that was full of cheats. They were caught red-handed exploiting the engine-off bug for months, and provided the most insultingly lame excuses, and ViKs was master of the bat-turn bug. They also favoured hitting the screen-print button to purposely lag when somebody was on their tail, and then went on to using the CPU speed-hack to do the same. The most recent suspicion is that they'd cracked the IL2 code years before it was first known to have been done and 'tweaked' their planes. I lost count of how many times I personally witnessed the most outrageous examples of impossible maneouvering, and I was far from alone.

 

I feel entirely safe in predicting that ViK's russian squad will be suprisingly awsome with ROF online. It certainly won't be getting a penny of my money.

[buddye 1]

Thanks for the data Womenfly2, very interesting. Beta Testing provides good data as always.

 

I do not think it is effective for one to compare flight sims. One should list his/her requirements for a flight sim (specific as possible), and then test the flight sim against his/her requirements. When one compares he/she just ends up proving what he already thinks, IMHO. A set of rquirements is not so personnal.

 

The bottom line should then be a list of strengths and weakness of the Sim you are testing based on meeting or not meeting your requirements list.