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jack72

Getting credit for kills

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Well, on my second mission in my first campaign, flying on the French side with my Neuport 17, I got my first campaign kills ...bagged two DRI's... When I landed and reported to the tent to get confirmation, I filled out the sheet and it asked me ,,what type of DR's where they. I don't know which version so I clicked the one I thougt it was. It also asked me to fill in the names of witnesses. I didn't have the names of anybody in the squad so I left that as no witness.

 

Will I still get credit for the kills? Wow talk about realism.

Edited by jack72

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jack, if you have the hardest level for the claims form checked in your settings, the phrase, "Snowball's chance in Hell", comes to mind. :biggrin:

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

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Jack72,

 

Before you take off, write down the names of the pilots in flight 1 and flight 2 for potential witnesses in case you down an enemy aircraft. If you're successful, pause the sim, press "z" to toggle info, note the time and altitude, maybe the Lat and Long. Call up the map and note your position (5 miles SE of Arras will suffice [the map scale is on the left top corner saying something like "map is 80NM across"]).

 

If you destroy an enemy, and your other flight members do not make it home, you may not get a confirmed kill, or even get presented with a claim form.

 

Also, if you have just sent half a drum into your enemy, he flips over on his back and starts the plummet towards earth, so you go to finish off his mate(s) or to save one of yours, one of your wingmen may follow the crippled craft and plant one or two rounds in him, and therefore they will get presented with the claim form.

 

It's really all dependant on the setting for claims you have chosen in Workshop. Type "Claims" into this Forum's search engine, and look at some of the claims that are being filled out by some here. Perhaps a bit "wordy" and too descriptive for a valid claim, but they look good in your log book, and bring back memories of a difficult combat etc.

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Some people will tell you that you have to have all sorts of accurate info in the witness box, but I am pretty sure that is all fancifull thinking. I doubt there are lines of code doing fancy text-parsing and comparisons to squad files, plus Winder hinted a long time back that it doesn't really matter what you put in for a witness as long as there is 'something' entered. So putting in 'my wingman', 'flight leader', 'ground observers', or 'Santa Clause' as a witness is probably just as likely to get you a confirmation as entering the correct name of someone in your flight.

 

Same goes for the notion that you must have accurate info on lat. and long. of your kills, the name of the nearby town, etc, or the idea that the OFF Manager has the capability to actually 'read' the player's reports, understand them, and determine their accuracy. Although I am sure Winder is more than capable of writing the hundreds (thousands?) of lines of code that would be needed to make the OFF Manager that smart, I am betting he hasn't had the time.

 

Of course this is all me just guessing. Only the OFF team knows how it really works, and they aren't telling.

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I am guessing that confirmation is calculated as a % of chance based on text count, like this:

- 0 - 20 characters = 10%

- 21 - 50 characters = 25%

- 51 - 100 characters = 75%

- 101+ characters = "Geez man, you writing a combat report or a novel?"

 

The process gives the illusion of making use of the text entered - and that is what is important - the simulation of a combat report.

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There's more to it than that guys lol. But if it really bugs you simply choose a simpler setting in workshops.

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There's more to it than that guys lol. But if it really bugs you simply choose a simpler setting in workshops.

 

Oooo, Pol you are such a tease!! Hints...we need more hints!! :dntknw: Yah, I know...we ain't gonna get any, heh heh.

 

I think the claims system is like a woman ... most of us will never understand what makes it tick.

 

p.s. Never get the idea we don't like the claims thing...we just love a mystery, thats all. :biggrin:

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I got some great input on a thread I started about kill claims. I followed it, and havent lost a claim yet (and most of my claims are for mutliple aircraft). press z after your victory and look at zulu time, note it. also press m for map, and note the distance from the nearest city (you gotta approximate it), and put NE or West of whatever town name it is.

More information helps too.

 

As an example, here's my last 2 reports from My current pilot Archie Beuford Wellington (maybe you've heard of him?)

 

8/10/1917 8h16 Flanders St-Omer Patrol Behind Friendly Front Lines Flying: Sopwith Camel. On this day claims: 3 Alb DIII . We took off from St-Omer to patrol behind our lines at 08h15. Less than a half hour later, at zulu time 8:39 we encountered Jasta 35 flying Alb. D.III(OAW)s at about 3 miles East of Floringham. We had altitude but were heading straight for them, and them us. As we squared off, 3 of them fired on me, and I was hit! But I didnt have time to bleed, so I turned on the nearest Alb. and climbed with him. Hard rudder brought him into my sites, and I shreded his wings. He crashed moments later. Close behind was another Alb. and so I slipped around to engage him. As he stalled in front of me, I hit his motor as I immediately saw smoke. He obviously lost some power as I kept overshooting him. I kept hitting him with short burst tho, and he crashed. I then raced to help my mates who were tangling with two more Albs. By the time I got there, one crashed, but I turned right on one as he started to climbe and I hit his engine, then his wings. He was an outstanding pilot, by I was better, using my twin guns to shred his wings. He crashed into the pine trees with no hope of control. Jasta 35 will be empty tonight.. Witnessed by: Benjamin Abbot, Simon Askew, Robbie Sarisbury Status : Pending .

 

9/10/1917 9h2 Flanders St-Omer Transfer Flying: Sopwith Camel. On this day claims: 3 Alb DV . We took off from St-Omer at 0900 for Droglandt, our new airfield location. Should have just been a short trip, but we got jumped by Jasta 28. Those boys are flyers! We ran into them 2 miles SW of Abeele at zulu time 09:19. I learned my lesson from the last scrap I was in, and so circled the melee looking for a target on the outer edge. I found one, zoomed in on him, and decapitated his struts with short bursts. he lost control and crashed immediately. I made a left turn and saw another Alb trying to do a wing slip, I aimed for his cockpit and didn't miss. He lost control, spinning madly and crashed right below me. I saw that Robbie had his hands full with another Alb, so I raced to get to him, diving for more speed. He was turning on Robbie quickly and I knew I didn't have much time. I started firing early, but strafed his fuselage and absolutely decimated his rudder, he started to waver as I hit his wings again and again. He veered off of Robbie, but it was too late for him, and I saw him crash into the trees below. I won't be writing to Robbie's folks today…. Witnessed by: Benjamin Abbot, Simon Askew, Robbie Sarisbury Status : Pending .

 

 

Hope that helps. Havent lost a claim yet, since including all the info I could.

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Try a German campaign, BuB. And when you can report, that you don't loose claims there, I will get wordy.

I have so far ever only got a third of my claims accepted. I write them like this:

 

3 Nieuport 17 Craft from Esc.86 shot down, craft crashed at 11:22 SW of Vivaise airfield. Craft from Esc.86

shot down, craft crashed at 11:24 west of Vivaise airfield. Craft from Esc.86 shot down, craft crashed at 11:25,

west of Vivaise airfield.

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Try a German campaign, BuB. And when you can report, that you don't loose claims there, I will get wordy.

I have so far ever only got a third of my claims accepted. I write them like this:

 

3 Nieuport 17 Craft from Esc.86 shot down, craft crashed at 11:22 SW of Vivaise airfield. Craft from Esc.86

shot down, craft crashed at 11:24 west of Vivaise airfield. Craft from Esc.86 shot down, craft crashed at 11:25,

west of Vivaise airfield.

 

Olham,

 

Try putting your times exactly as the duty room board shows them...and like BuB has his...8h16 zulu time (can't actually remember if it mentions zulu time). That might help. I'm sure you intentionally omitted the witnesses, but make sure their names are the same as well.

 

Listen to me! As if I have enough claims under my belt to know. I guarantee Herr Olham writes more claim forms in one evening's play than I have filled out since I got OFF (probably about 6 or 7 in total). But I have been reading up a lot on claims.

 

But I'm mightily impressed with claims like BuB's. These look great in your pilot's log. Mine looks pretty bare by comparison...no claims, just "Offensive patrol - 45 minutes flying time" and so on, and so on.

 

:shok:

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The time is shown different everywhere. In the red text you get in the mission, it loks this: 08:16:24

In the briefing, it looks this: 08h16

So what's right?

I also used more wordy texts. Still, some where confirmed, some rejected.

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The time is shown different everywhere. In the red text you get in the mission, it loks this: 08:16:24

In the briefing, it looks this: 08h16

So what's right?

I also used more wordy texts. Still, some where confirmed, some rejected.

 

if it gets rejected, don't think about it's because you use metric system or whatever. think it's rejected because somebody else made the claim and it was more conclusive. Or because the german Gefreiter Herbert Müller had shot with his mauser from the ground and claimed it.

it is thought too much about HOW to make a claim correct.

sounds stupid, but the best way for me is simply to write it down like you really want to get it confirmed and have to convince the burocrats that it is your kill.

imagine in RL something gets broken and you have to write down what happened to get the money from the insurance company. i think everybody would be very precise and would add as much information as possible to make them believe you. that's how i think about writing claims. and if it gets rejected, who cares. somebody else obviously made a better claim or simply made the kill and i was wrong.

 

as it is known from crimes in real life and in the heat of fire, it's proved that if you ask 5 eyewitnesses, you will get 5 different versions of the event. so even eyewitnesses can not garantee a claim.

things like what happened to MvR on his last flight (who made the fatal shot blah) happened hundred of times each day. like with MvR there are so many different versions about everything what happened.

i don't mind at all if my claim gets rejected. it might also happen that somebody else should have been credited with the kill but it was given to me.

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How many do you get rejected, Creaghorn?

 

might vary, but i get about 10-20% rejected or better to say 80-90% confirmed. for me that is good enough. some days ago i got rejected 3 claims in a row and on my next claim i added besides my report some complain and asked them to read the reports really properly because there is no other option than to confirm it, it's so obvious and with many witnesses. :rtfm: .

it'll be funny to read it some time in the future. :no: .

 

as it was in real. shooters had many more rejected claims then hunters. that's quite realistic. a hunter chooses his prey, shoots it down and knows every circumstance. a hunter shoots here and there, some may fall, some may escape, some may be shot to pieces by other mates.

as it was in real, at least in germany, the pilots often had to find the wreckage to get a confirmation. they landed besides the victim to make sure nobody else makes the claim, or drove there by car afterwards. shooters can come back from a sortie and claim 5 kills, but since half of the victims could not be located again, or are claimed by others, the chance to get it rejected is much greater. if they live long enough to get the rejection.

i often land besides my victim, when the fight is over and end the mission there, instead of returning to my base.

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Maybe in P8 we can land by the downed craft and take a trophy and then send it home to mother and she can keep a trophy room for us. I've seen picture of MvR's trophy room. I wonder what became of all those things.

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Hmmm - I'm definitely a shooter then.

Just had a flight mission to protect 2 DFW reconaissance craft. But we had just started, when we saw two Nupes

attacking Chambry airfield. I decided to shoot them down and did so. But just when we where traveling on, two

more Nupes attacked us. So I had to shoot those down, too.

Now I thought, we could get on with our mission after all, when 4 more Nieuports came our way. I wanted to

ignore them (ammo was down to 300 - 350 estimated), but they didn't ignore us. They came down on us. By now,

flight 1 was with us. Walter Dittrich and Hand Kummetz where chasing two Nupes above a forrest, whilst I fought

the two higher up. I managed to shoot both down, and on the last one, my MG made 'click' - but he didn't get much

further and fell into the trees.

My mission was spoiled, of course, as I had no rounds left, and I turned home.

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I've seen picture of MvR's trophy room. I wonder what became of all those things.

 

 

as long as i know they were taken/stolen by the russians as wartrophies and disappeared, like tons of other arts and precious goods when the russians came in WWII. they are for sure in some hidden or forgotten storage somewhere. like the "bernsteinzimmer"

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Try a German campaign, BuB. And when you can report, that you don't loose claims there, I will get wordy.

I have so far ever only got a third of my claims accepted. I write them like this:

 

3 Nieuport 17 Craft from Esc.86 shot down, craft crashed at 11:22 SW of Vivaise airfield. Craft from Esc.86

shot down, craft crashed at 11:24 west of Vivaise airfield. Craft from Esc.86 shot down, craft crashed at 11:25,

west of Vivaise airfield.

 

I like to put in the time I left the airfield, and the mission type. Then I'll include "zulu time 8:47" when I down the first plane. Also the map coordinates and what damage I did to each plane and why it went down. I think that's key. Also a bit of wording in there like "the skys were angry that day" or some other corny phrase adds to the otherwise bland description...and makes it more interesting to read. I was bummed when I finally lost a pilot who I'd chronicled the slow decline of his nerves thru many different mission claims. Makes for interest in the pilot...but there's a downside,

I really am frustrated when I lose a pilot like that...especially when it's something I cant affect at all, like flak, or something like that....

 

I will try a german campaign olham...I"ll let you know.

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Yes, I'm sure we are all really sad, when we loose a long time pilot - cause we really were there...

 

Please report about your German campaign. What Jasta, when, and which craft.

I'm very curious!

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Well, I started a German campaign, in April 1 1918. Jasta 13 JGII Flew 6 missions before I was captured. I got two kills (tho I shot down another 3, but never got the opportunity to claim them...I think my wingmates vulched them :(

anyway, 2 kills, 2 confirmed.

I'll try to keep a pilot alive and get 10 or more kills/confirmed, but really, I think this is the key to confirmations Olham.

Anyway, if it helps, here's the entries:

 

 

1/4/1918 8h16 Flanders Roupy Scramble Flying: Fokker Dr.1 Injured & Hospitalised. Injured & Hospitalised. Claims Submitted! Flying time 2 mins .

 

20/4/1918 11h39 Flanders Balatre Scramble Flying: Fokker Dr.1 Injured & Hospitalised. Injured & Hospitalised. Claims Submitted! Flying time 7 mins .

 

12/5/1918 15h7 Flanders Nesle/leMesnil Airfield Attack Flying: Fokker Dr.1 Claims accepted: 2 Injured & Hospitalised. Injured & Hospitalised. Flying time 34 mins .

 

12/5/1918 15h7 Confirmation Received of Claim submitted on: 1/4/1918 8h16 Flanders Scramble Flying: Fokker Dr.1. On this day claims: 1 camel . We heard the sirens at 08h15 and had to scramble because of a flight of Camels descending on our base! I just got off the ground when they were on us, like stink on a dog. I singled out a Camel and started to turn with him, fired on him and hit his engine as I saw immediate smoke. I followed him down as he tried to regain control, but he crashed at zulu time 08:17, 3 miles SE of Flez, right over our air field! Witnesses shouldnt be a problem as even the dogs saw it! However, I'd lost valuable altitude and was engaged immediately by another 2 Camels. I couldnt get away and they hit my airelons, causing a low altitude crash. Hopefully we taught those camels a lesson: Smoking is bad for your health!. Witnessed by: Fritz Gottschling, Eduard von der Ziegler, Martin Hoyer, Alfons Hertz Status : Confirmed .

 

12/5/1918 15h7 Confirmation Received of Claim submitted on: 20/4/1918 11h39 Flanders Scramble Flying: Fokker Dr.1. On this day claims: 1 Spad13 . I just got back from the hospital and heard the scramble sirens at 11h38. Esc. 73 had sent a flight of spad XIIIs to attack our airfield. I bravely jumped into my D.R.1 and got off the ground, climbing as best I could. I circled away from the diving spads and they ignored me. Bad mistake. As the first Spad engaged Martin, I swung around and my first burst hit his engine as I saw immediate smoke. I broke off and turned. I stayed with him as he then climbed verticle to a stall. That was a bad move as I had 2 seconds of full bursts into his cockpit before he dove again. He crashed right on our airfield at 11:40 zulu time, 3 Miles East of Assevillers. His partner had been firing on me, but couldnt out turn my D.R.1. I spun around and unloaded almost all the bullets I had into his plane. His engine coughed up some smoke, I saw splinters from his wings, and he crashed almost immediately after that, also right on our runway! The two trails of black smoke led from my plane to the airfield where the planes are still smoking. Hopefully that'll teach Esc. 73 to mess with us! Sadly, I put down on the airfield, but couldnt stop the plane before it hit a tree. I'm injured again. 2 flights and 2 planes....I got chewed out by our commander. He said I was writing checks that my body coudlnt cash. That I'm dangerous. Humph! Time for some imported chocolate I say!. Witnessed by: Gustav Creutzmann, Eduard von der Ziegler, Martin Hoyer Status : Confirmed .

Edited by Broadside uda Barn

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Started another campaign with Deiter Schtaffle.

So far he's gotten every kill confirmed. Having a tough time getting any allied planes to fight tho.

they usually have altitude and just speed away in their spads. I think I'm 10 missions in, with something like 6 no contacts...tho I chased planes for a long time in many of these. Very frustrating. I never had that problem in 1917 flying for the allies. Is it the year, or the planes...?

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At about 3:30 this morning, I was on a reconnaissance for the RNAS in a two seater Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter. A whole bunch of Eindekkers turned to take the three of us on, but we had R A Little and his mates flying Nieuports in Flight 1 looking after us. They took four out, then went home for tea and crumpets, leaving two chasing me and my flight. As usual, I couldn't keep up with my flight leader until a waypoint turn headed them back towards me.

 

So anyway, I'm just chugging along, easily out running these persistant Eindekkers, when a waypoint turn comes up, insisting I turn towards home...and the Eindekkers. I looked up and saw both my flight buddies turn and head towards the Fokkers, and pass over them unconcerned, leaving me who was at their altitude to deal with them. Both the Eindekkers were "named" aces. Oh, great!

 

I turned as hard and as fast as I could back towards home. The Eindekkers blocked my path as they were also heading home, but I thought they were intent on heading home with another victory to talk about in the mess. As I straightened out, I chose the one that was closest to my line of retreat, and gave him a hundred rounds straight into his cowling. He smoked and spluttered, passed me, and just continued on home. The other came around onto my tail.

 

I don't know if he "killed" my observer/gunner, or was able to stay away from the arc of his guns, but it sounded like he didn't fire at all. Eventually, I came around on the tail of this Fokker and latched on, peppering him, backing off on the throttle so I didn't pass him, and repeat. He was going down quickly, smoking from the engine. He missed landing on our side of the trenches by a few feet, luckily, didn't put his wheels down on one side of the trenches and pass over, or he'd flip. He came to rest near a tree (yes, that close to the trenches...perhaps they were communication trenches, reserves, or saps or the like). I turned around to see his fate, and thought for a moment about strafing the poor bugger (as he had "landed" I didn't think I'd get a claim anyway, so I decided not to) when I saw he was on fire from nose to tail. I passed directly overhead and paused the sim, hit "z" so I could do a screenshot to collect the time and geographical data.

 

Then it froze. Completely. Nothing. Zip. Nada.

 

Seems as if at that precise moment, #&$&*$(@ Norton's decided that it was a good time to remind me that it needed an update. Nothing I did could unfreeze my computer, and I had to reboot.

 

All despite insisting on a clean install from the computer guy, just the OS was all I wanted, then I would choose what to install, and control it.

 

Frustrating. Not easy killing a scout with the front guns of a two-seater, both aces (my first). Then that.

 

GRR!

 

Back to the mess, grumbling. Tomorrow. Wait and see.

Edited by Check Six

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Steve--That Stinks!

I think I might be able to help though.

Sometimes when this happens to me, I alt-tab and then click on the screen, and see if it responds.

If it doesnt, I hit alt-tab again, and often this makes it respond (after hitting the pause button to un pause the game).

I think this has something to do with CFS3 as sometimes I'll see a small CFS3 tab briefly as the game starts up.

HTH!

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question for the devs,

 

would it be possible (though i doubt it) that the witnesses appear automatically in the claimform? only the witnesses who have seen it.

i mean, when filling out the claim form, one simply types in all members of the flight, hoping at least one of them witnessed it. so one is just guessing. you had a flight of 8, 6 come back but you still type in every member because you don't know who is missing, without labels.

i think in real when somebody claimed a kill, he mentioned the mates he knew they witnessed it, not everybody. you landed, and then müller and meier said, i saw your kill. stachel and schmidt said to you, we didn't see anything because we were too busy staying alive. so in real one would type in only müller and meier and maybe some groundunits. you know your witnesses before writing the report. IMHO it would be cool if automatically only the ones appear who actually have seen your kill. and if there was only one, there should be only one name. if there is none, there should be none. right now it's like you never talk to any other pilot befor the report and you have to guess or type in everybody.

just a thought

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by the way, on m last kill i wrote only couple blah blahs into the witnesses, and in the report olaso some blablahs. shorter, longer, with a lot of words. pending says 0. 1:0 for the devs :victory:

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