Falklands scaled up

[macelena]

About this war, there were several lessons learnt about modern naval air warfare, however, some people considered that it was inconclusive given that this was a "low-intensity" engagement wich given the relatively lean amount of resources expent wouldn´t highlight what may have happened in the same kind of environment, with more power in the area. It was even compared to the Footbal War of 1969 (Corsairs Vs Mustangs weren´t representative of air war in the 60s)

 

That´s why some time ago i proposed something to the Argentine members about increasing the air power of both sides in the Campaign with changes credible, wich woudn´t have changed the course of history too much. What i propose is, for a war in 1984:

 

Argentine:

All Mirage derivatives replaced by Mirage III NG (Kfir style Canards, Mirage F1 powerplant and weapons systems, fine choice)

All SkyHawks in the A-4M configuration (the Argentines, as members said, were about to get some)

Super Etendard squadron fully operative

Argentine Navy deployed beside the islands

 

British:

Conventional Carrier Task Force, usual air wing for the Royal Navy, including the use of F-4S

(I´m not sure about who told me, perhaps Spinners, that F-4M was far from perfect. Given the use of second handed F-4Js post-war, i think it might have been interesting)

 

What do you think about this?

Edited September 9, 2009 by macelena

[ChrisBV]

Argentine Navy deployed beside the islands

 

Relevant land-based fighters and strike aircraft deployable from the islands would also be nice, perhaps the Port Stanley/BAM Malvinas airfield could be modified (something that could have been done within a few weeks of work in the field in RL) with a longer runway and provisional facilities to accommodate Mirages, Daggers and SuEs.

 

British:

Conventional Carrier Task Force, usual air wing for the Royal Navy, including the use of F-4S

 

... and the Buccaneer S2, hopefully. Would give the RN the possibility of attacking airfields and strategic targets in mainland Argentina.

 

Sounds like a great idea, I'd love the concept of a 'revved-up' Falklands!

[Spinners]

I´m not sure about who told me, perhaps Spinners, that F-4M´s weapons system was far from perfect...

 

 

Not guilty! My only beef with the F-4M was the cost (2.5 times the cost of the F-4D) and the generally degraded performance. Radar and weapons were very good for the era.

[macelena]

Not guilty! My only beef with the F-4M was the cost (2.5 times the cost of the F-4D) and the generally degraded performance. Radar and weapons were very good for the era.

 

 

Sorry, man. Will correct

Edited September 9, 2009 by macelena

[+allenjb42]

How about a 1970s scenario with Ark Royal and her airwing when the Buc has been completed? Alternately a late 1980's or 1990s re-invasion attempt by Argentina, with the Argentinian carrier and land based aircraft being defended against by RAF Phantoms or Tornados based at Stanley and a British carrier battle group using Sea Harrier FA.2s.

[dsawan]

I think it's good and hopefully added to the existing falklands mod as you can only choose one year which is 83 or 82. I think a further twist is what if the Argentines had upgraded their skyhawks to carry chaff and flares and perhaps limited ecm to improve survivability. Kinda like a makeshift a-4p and q models.

[Spinners]

Once we get the Buccaneer then I'd love the 1977 'Ark Royal' scenario.

[macelena]

For the RN, a complement on 16 Phantoms and 16 Buccaneer for the CTOL carrier would be fine? I would like to have more, although

it fits for the TW campaign

 

And... Perhaps a french style carrier wing for the ARA "25 de Mayo"? would it have been able to operate Crusaders? Someone did a skin

Edited September 9, 2009 by macelena

[+allenjb42]

Even if you stayed in 1982, this might be an interesting alternative history mission to make:

 

http://athens.dnstraffic.net/~changing/samples/coldwar/falklands_war_1982.htm

 

Scroll down to the part describing the major air battle on 10 May 1982

 

There seemed to be no indication, on the morning of 10th May, that the greatest naval battle to take place since 1945 was about to begin....

[+Piecemeal]

Here's a Discovery Civilisation documentary that I stumbled upon while browsing for documentaries I haven't seen on the subject. This one deals with how close the Argentinian military could have come to winning and features interviews with the military commanders of both sides. I'd HIGHLY recommend it if you're planning on scripting an alternative campaign

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVDeN7iB4NE

 

 

[+PureBlue]

Pretty interesting documentary, thanks for the link Ultra!

 

The models and skins look very familiar.

Have they used the Falklands Mod or what??

 

Edit: Na-ahh, forget I said that

Edited September 10, 2009 by pureblue

[macelena]

Here's a Discovery Civilisation documentary that I stumbled upon while browsing for documentaries I haven't seen on the subject. This one deals with how close the Argentinian military could have come to winning and features interviews with the military commanders of both sides. I'd HIGHLY recommend it if you're planning on scripting an alternative campaign

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=MVDeN7iB4NE

 

 

 

 

It´s quite interesting. I could just see the first vid. For what i know, there were several chances to ensure a victory for Argentina, such as the near sinking of the HMS Conqueror by the escorts of ARA Gral Belgrano, or another sub action in wich an Argentinian about to attack had a malfunction flooding tubes, and so on.

 

However, the idea wich i meant to spread assumed changes in a wide beam of variables. The british CTOL carrier, or a better built Argentine Air Force. This will be useful, but i´m afraid that if we take those changes, many of the premises of the documentary will change. So may be told about allenjb42´s input, so we will have to adapt it to the new power balance wich we may finally decide to include. But the fact is that there is something to take out of all those studies wich we should have in mind in the event of making an über-Falklands War campaign.

 

Just imagine, in 1984, the attack plan for 10 May 1982, changing Harriers for Phantoms,Daggers for Mirage III NG, et cetera

[macelena]

He shouldn´t be out alone with the british out there. That´s what Lieutenant Chamorro, Argentine Navy, was hearing once and again. But that got to be in his head, there is radio silence with the combat group,and he was alone, far beyond alone, aboard his Crusader, within the 200 miles off Malvinas. South Atlantic was not blue, but a sad mix of grey and white. Flying at 5000 feet, the best he could say about weather was that at least he could see the deck. Suddenly, his eyes locked instinctively into something moving faster than waves down there, 2 o´clock and moving below him on to the carrier and his escorts, 80 miles away,on transonic. He pulled the stick to dive, and within seconds, he was following the target, wich he identified as british Buccaneer, one mile and a half away. It was coming in fast, so to stay after him, Chamorro lits the burner.

 

He wouldn´t be able to use the Matra R.530s as two days ago -when he got a probable victory on a Vulcan wich seeked for the ARA 25 de Mayo- because the target was below 100 ft above the waves. He felt how the Crusader boomed the Mach, as he selected one of his two Matra 550 infrared missiles. He didnt wan´t to fly as low as the Buccaneer, so he stood at 500ft. The aircraft was taking punishment for flying such fast such low,but this one had to be stopped. Finally, the missile growls as he locked on to the british, now half a mile away. Chamorro pulled the trigger and the port Magic boosted forward. The missile seemed to track the target, but when expected to see the detonation, the Matra dropped into the water in front of the Buccaneer.

 

The Buc did nothing. Perhaps the pilot was not aware of what happened. Or perhaps he thought that his best survival chance was to stay as fast, reach their target, and get back. Mean cabron. Perhaps he realized that he was lost and wanted to take some Argies out. Really mean cabron. Chamorro pulled the trigger again when his starboard missile growled for the Buccaneer. The missile flew below the British. Near miss. Then the warhead detonated then in front of the attacker. The Buccaneer lost stability, and the pilot pulled up to prevent crashing. As he climbed, Chamorro got closer, picked the cannons. He couldnt fail. He couldn´t afford to. The british came into his gunsight. Pulled the trigger for two seconds, he could see detonations of his explosive bullets at the port engine and wing. The wing blew off, and the remainder of the aircraft went down and crashed into the Atlantic.He felt some bump on his heart as he saw no parachutes. Anyway, they wouldn´t have lasted too long down there. Better to die this way. Back to the ship

 

 

 

Coming soon: Phantoms on Mirage-CAP

Edited September 11, 2009 by macelena

[Stratos]

Mace tio muy bueno. Me ha impresionado la lectura. Gracias y espero puedas salier adelante con la campaña.