Advice needed for two seaters.

[rabu 9]

This weekend I created a pilot in a bomber division.. have never done it before. Anyway, got assigned to Esc Sop 5 out of Corcieux in Alsace flying Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutters during the 3rd Ypres battle period.. pretty exciting stuff.

 

I have no idea how to handle this plane.. I was totally confused about how I should respond to other fighter planes.. should I try to position myself like a fighter and turn attack, or keep things steady and rely on the guy behind me and not jink the plane around, or should I try to hit F8 to take things into my own hands.. but then, who's flying the plane? I didn't spend too much time with it, only had a bit of time Sunday night to play around, and managed to get almost two hours in and return to base and land in one piece, though I over shot the runway and managed to stop between two hangers.. luckily.

 

Please, don't everyone laugh at me. Anyway, any suggestions and directions on how to use the keys to control things would be greatly appreciated. Or is there some good posts on this that I might have missed?

 

Thanks, guys.

[Baldric 42]

I'm not laughing because I've done the same thing this weekend. All I could think of when I was done was 'how did these guys do this in real life?' I had picked the lovely Roland CII (Walfisch) and promptly got hammered (maybe should have picked an earlier period to start with 'gently', which I've since done). I found flying the machine to be quite good, but becoming the observer was perhaps something best left to Feldwebel A.I. 'Deadeye' Dickzki, as using the stick to maneuver the parabellum around was completely counter-intuitive for me (Me muttering: "Darn, stop twisting it...gah..up..up..no down...agggh..stop bloody twisting...there in the sights...fire...1 thousand, 2 thous...stop...not in sight...stop twisting GAH (actual word not inserted) " ) I think RicketyCrate suggested a gamepad in another thread.

 

Hat to look around without swinging the gun around into the pilots cranium (I'd love it if it went to TrackIR).

 

So far, out of a halfdozen re-rolled crew, I've one crew who have now survived...if I see fighters (real or imaginary!) I'mma outta there-- I have seen my escorts get blown away, or totally miss seeing the incoming FuzzyWuzzys and then I get to watch the cut scene. Its such a cool challenge!!

[Olham 164]

My experience is, that the guy in the rear seat is shooting better than I could.

But he does need a good target view.

So I would fly the Strutter in that way, that he can really aim at the nearest attacking craft,

but also staying close to my Strutter flight. Maybe you can lure the attacker into positions,

that give him hell from all other rear gunners. That should do fine.

But if you see, they prefer to attack only your companions, as they fly level straight, then I

would approach them like a fighter, bringing my gunner in good positions.

[Blue781 0]

From what i have noticed having flown a few missions in bombers from either side is that like Olham said, the AI gunner is a damn sight better shot then most pilots.. i think you just have to get them within a good striking position..

 

Concerning formation flying and bombing.. most lacked bombsites (no norden here folks for you old B172 fans) and it was extremely hard to hit really anything of signifigance at all.. honestly i get 'low and slow' right over the field.. dodge enemy fire and drop em right over the hangers.. and hope like hell i hit em.. (mostly i get crates with an occasional milk truck... hahahaha)

 

ive flown in steady formation at 8 thousand with the other Bombers and dropped also through the primitive bomb site and hit nothing but grass.. so its all practice.. drop ur ordnance.. and run like hell back home!!

 

Cheers everyone and happy hunting..

Edited October 13, 2009 by Blue781

[RAF_Louvert 101]

rabu, I have flown the Strutter 1 1/2 a fair bit and find it an excellent all-around plane to bomb and fight with. If you are going up against the early enemy scouts such as the EIII and Halb you can keep up with either in a fight. However, as others have noted, your AI rear gunner is likely a better shot, so try and give him as many opportunities to fire as you can. Watch out when fighting the enemy B/R's though, they are much more of a challenge than the early scouts. The Strutter works well as a dive bomber due to the operable dive brakes and that is the method I use the most when flying this kite. But you will need to practice to find your own style.

 

I still prefer the life of the B/R pilot, but then I'm a glutton for punishment.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Rickitycrate 10]

Rabu, interesting thread. Here are a few of my observations ,tactics and practices. Tactics depend on the craft to a large degree. Some two-seaters serve as decent scout types. The Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter and the Roland CII for example. These are planes that I have first piloted more or less as a scout with the observer covering my tail and helping to give the alarm when E/A are on our six. When I deplete my ammo as pilot I switch over to observer and when I empty that ammo we head home with myself piloting. When switching positions back and forth you will see that the A/I pilot will most likely follow the waypoints not the action. He may try to leave the area so if you want to stay you will need to pilot the plane back into the thick of it.

The other Two-seater types, generally the high flying observation types, I tend to only observe. I have fought , pursued and brought down Fokker EIII's with the BE2c as the pilot. So that is possible, but with these craft I like to role- play the observer most of the flight. It's rather leisurely but interesting. It can get hot and you will see that your flight can fend off the attackers quite often. Your flight holds formation until damage causes a crate to breakoff or fall behind.

As observer I use a gamepad for controlling the gun and viewing. I simply leave my HOTAS plugged in and add the gamepad to an empty usb port. My pad defaults(no setup) to:

Left thumbstick = move/aim gun

Directional pad = snap views like hat switch

Button One or Two = Fire weapon

Button Seven = cycle targets

Now maybe the gamepad can be better confiqured, I have not investigated this. The Hotas controls still function when using the gamepad so your settings are available and for myself I have not had conflicts.

Here are some pics I took today. DFW's on the move to a new airfield, simple enough. After takeoff I assumed observer the whole flight. Uneventful, so I warped part of the way, until we encountered E/A near our destination. I flipped on some aids. Tac,outside view and labels. Along with the flak puffs I could see where they were. The labels told me they were Nieuport 17's. They were at a greater height and passed off to my right without attacking. If I were pilot I would have soon landed as we were over the field. The A/I pilot did not land but continued on. Eventually he doubled back and flew over the field again and past, hmmm. Soon the Nieuports reappeared and at lower altitude. I viewed the Nupes directly by hitting the Tab key. Soon the were winging over into a steep dive toward my flight. They were inept pilots or afraid as they never came within effective firing range. They raised some hell at the new airfield and then moved on. Now my pilot decided it was time to land. He came in hot and low to my liking but I held on and watched. Man we clipped some treetops but landed safely. Now I was worried we would collide with the crate that landed just before us but we turned to one side as we got close. We sat there and idled for awhile listening to the sounds and myself waiting for a chance to take some shots if the Frenchmen came too close, none did this time. So, that's some input from myself. I'm not saying I'm right or that there is only one way to do things. I am exploring this sim and having a gas finding out what is there for us to experience. It's deep, deep and up to us to discover what we may. I fear the 2-seaters are over-looked by many but they offer a very fun and immerssive exprience. Thanks to Olham for instructing me on how to arrange the pics.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Rickitycrate

[Olham 164]

Rickity, to get pictures in the right order, you can add them to the post after upload -

there is a little line behind each uploaded pic, saying "delete / add to post" or similar.

 

When you add them, you get link lines in your post. If you now put these lines in the

right order, you're done.

[Duce Lewis 3]

Rabu, I have limited experience in a Roland

You're right to ask for tactics because I had trouble at 1st (trying to fly her like a fighter)

I found she could turn fairly good but had a slow roll rate

Fighters could snap into a turn faster tan I could and would turn back under me

Took me a while to realize that the fight's not over even at this point

Just roll her on her side and let the TG have a shot at him

So you need to think tactically for your TGer as well as yourself

Height is more precious in a 2 Seater too as they usually don't climb as good as the fighters

 

HTH & Happy Hunting,

[rabu 9]

Thanks everyone for the advice and experiences. I probably won't have time to try this out again till this weekend, but am looking even more forward to it.

When I switch from pilot to gunner using F8, does the plane go into AI pilot.. I really wasn't sure and didn't stay there for very long each time.. do I have to hit some sort of key command for auto pilot first?

Do I need to select a enemy plane using the radar and then hit the A key for the gunner to shoot at a particular plane, or does he just shoot at what ever he thinks is best?

 

Thanks again,

[Hauksbee 103]

In your last picture, there appears to be some winged 'angels' ascending in the sky. Are these the sould of your victims?

 

Nice poster in your sign-off block!

[Rickitycrate 10]

Rabu, you ask some interesting questions about assigning targets for the pilot. I do not know the answer to that either. I know that when you switch positions the A/I pilot does take over until you switch back but I don't know if you can influence him. Something to investigate and it would be nice if you could assign a target and therefore have him stay in the action. Otherwise it seems to me that the A/I pilot is fixed on flying the waypoints and heedless of the situation. Good question.

 

Hauksbee, regarding the last photo: I believe the ground damage to be a fallen aircraft onto a tent. I can make no claim. I don't know the type of plane (theirs or ours) or if it was ground fire that brought it down. It may have happened while I was white-knuckled during that tree brushing landing the pilot made. I did not think we were going to survive that, hehe.

[Bullethead 12]

I'm going to have to try this career idea of being a tailgunner. It might be a good thing to do when I'm too sloshed to fly without crashing into something .

 

The thing about being a "bomber" pilot is that you very rarely get bombing missions. Instead, you mostly do recon and arty spotting. I find this rather boring, but at least you can warp. So eventually, I got in the habit of ignoring such orders and taking some bombs to attack the enemy trenches instead.

 

Bombing in most planes, however, precludes warping on ingress. First off, if you're ignoring your real mission, you're not following the waypoints and you can't input your own. Second, if you DO have a bombing mission, it will always tell you to be at some ungodly altitude like 16,324 feet. This only works for the DFW, which has a functioning bombsight for level bombing. Everything else has to bomb in a dive which is best done from a much lower altitude. So, to avoid finding yourself directly over the target at some ridiculously high level, you have to fly there in real time at your desired altitude. In either case, you CAN warp home, however, by SHF-w until you're on your last waypoint.

 

Rolands, Strutters, and RE8s are fairly maneuverable so you have a pretty good chance of getting a shot with the front gun, although in the RE8 you can't see the target. If you misuse the Fee as a bomber, it's fairly maneuverable, too, but only really works in the horizontal. However, the pivoting front gun makes up for this to a large degree. DFWs and Hannovers are not maneuverable at all. In the Hannover, you can at least strafe during your bomb run, but in the DFW you can't see ahead so its front gun is fairly pointless. It's also not good at divebombing for the same reason, so it's best just to level bomb with it from has high as possible.

[Hasse Wind 46]

I'm hoping to see bomber/recon careers improved in P4 to make it more exciting and enjoyable to fly those two-seaters in career mode. Recon missions are currently quite boring, but bombing is often great fun (not that I ever hit my intended targets, but who cares - explosions are cool in any case!) There should be a different awards system for two-seater pilots, not based purely on the number of enemy aircraft shot down.

[Bullethead 12]

I'm hoping to see bomber/recon careers improved in P4 to make it more exciting and enjoyable to fly those two-seaters in career mode. Recon missions are currently quite boring, but bombing is often great fun (not that I ever hit my intended targets, but who cares - explosions are cool in any case!) There should be a different awards system for two-seater pilots, not based purely on the number of enemy aircraft shot down.

 

I agree. In real life, there seems to have been a division of labor amongst 2-seater squadrons. Different squadrons seemed to specialize in a certain type of mission, although they might do the odd mission of another sort. It would be nice if you could pick this during pilot creation.

 

Of course, to make the recon and arty-spotting missions more than "patrol between 2 waypoints several times", there'd have to be something to do there. Somehow taking photos, or (my favorite) adjusting arty fire onto a target would do the trick there. You'd do these by jumping into the back seat and would have to divide your attention between the mission and your gun.

[Rickitycrate 10]

When dropping bombs or firing rockets do you watch with the F9 Bomb/Rocket view? Not a realistic view mind you but it is fun to watch and hear. You see the impact better.

[OvS 8]

... Please, don't everyone laugh at me.

 

 

Man, you're joking right... you're serious?!?!

[Gromit 0]

Now I wonder if I shouldn't start my first career in a two-seater...

 

I need to stop reading these posts and just go fly! Heh.

[rabu 9]

Man, you're joking right... you're serious?!?!

 

 

Ya, I already knew everything there is to know about two seaters.. I was just waiting for you to jump in and make some comments about them so I could laugh at you!

 

Thanks again everyone, I can't wait till this weekend to try this out.