Who knew P-3's were so threatening?

[DWCAce 19]

Here's an update on Venezuela's nut job and his latest antics.

 

P-3's Provoke F-16 Intercept

[+Gepard 11,192]

The answer is simple. Nobody like it if military planes of an other country flys over the territory of the own state. What would the US Military do if a venezuelan military plane would circle over Florida Keys? They would send out their F-16's.

[macelena 1,070]

Sending F-16s to intercept an aircraft within Venezuelan airspace is quite logic. Perhaps the US uses to give a s**t about foreign, sovereign airspace and all the imperialist stuff on the backyard, Etc.

 

-HOWEVER all this does not change the fact that Chavez is a phony dictator (if you speak Spanish you will know better, as surely something is Lost in Translation in his daily speech), who opresses the people of Venezuela, turns them into killing each other, supports terrorism in Colombia, and most probably, makes money out of drug dealing, speculation with the cover of socialist intervention (robbery), and all this amount of thing by the wich he should get a Darwin Award, along with imprisonment for life.

 

I wish there was some Venezuelan member to talk about this, but you know, there is a dictatorship. I Just can ask you to remember that half the population was brainwashed, and the other one in being repressed. Just think if your nations leader is something you would really feel proud about, and take it to an extreme situation

 

 

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

I dunno what your US Orions are like, but I've been up close and personal with the RAAF AP-3Cs of the 92nd Air Wing here and they're mean bastards! I mean, they have to be now since some desk pushing douchebag in Canberra figured it was a good idea turning it into a strike platform and canning the Pig. I find the interct with a couple of F-16s to be a little ironic. Just curious, but was the P-3 in question an EP-3??

[MigBuster 2,884]

There are rumours of troops being organised on the columbian/Ven border (BBC) over the past few months so would expect they dont want people snooping around.

 

You would have thought the P3 crew would have got their cameras out and taken pics of some real classic warbirds - that camo job they have is pretty cool.

[Silverbolt 104]

Threat? besides do an Military high tech reconancense with some valuable information is certainly threatenig, because it can intercept comunication, and if you add this to the popular incitement...well its deffinatly not good.

 

that's not the first time an USA Military Plane does an ilegal flight over some south american nation, even here in Brazil an US EP-3 Aries did an flight over our biggest gold and native people reserve it simply wasn't intercepted, i must say this was quite ofensive here, specially because it was an reconnaissance aircraft over our treasure, what was the real intention of this ?

 

i remember you that's not the first time an USA aircraft is intercepted over venezuela, 2 years ago an S-3 Viking, did the same and the pilot, there is an Video on youtube where an venezuelan F-16 intercepts an U-2!.

 

 

i wonder what would US feel if some other nation military plane did flight their mainlaind , specially if it was an reconnaissance plane, with nowadays media you bet this would be a act of war, i'm not sure but US never had an foreing military plane flying over their mainland unauthorized., what seems to not be the same when you say US flying over other nations.

 

 

Chavez can be the worse person in the world, but this does not give the US right of inflame the situation, could you even imagine if some missorder is done by any pilot? that would be craptastic....something like an shotdown if for one side an plane wich is not intercepted can cause a huge problem in internal society like...''why they did violate our sovereignty and go unpunished ?'' and if goes actually shot, this is a direct act of war.

 

I did not conccur with chavez ideas, acts ,personal strikes and US sovereignty rapes s but last thing i want see here is war.

 

 

so i say, its pretty threatening in a unstable country like venezuela.

[FastCargo 412]

Prove that the P-3 flew into Venezualan airspace and you have a case.

 

Otherwise, it's 'he said, he said'. Bears would hover just outside the international line at 12 nautical miles. Which isn't dick at anything above 30000 feet. Ask Libya about that.

 

Speaking of which, I notice the video of the F-16s intercepting the U-2 at 37k. Deuces operate at twice that altitude...so if there were any REAL recon going on, there wouldn't have been an intercept.

 

More than likely, he was descending into an airfield and the F-16s wanted to take a look at it. It's called 'shadowing' and again, we did all the time when the Bears would come to play.

 

The S-2 is an anti-sub aircraft...not a whole lot of use over land.

 

And a EP-3 is a SIGINT aircraft...pretty sure if I wanted to know about gold and native people, I'd have sent something else.

 

It's getting a little old hearing the 'US is in the wrong' chant without even doing a little bit of research to see what the truth is vs what someone said.

 

FC

Edited January 10, 2010 by FastCargo

[macelena 1,070]

Prove that the P-3 flew into Venezualan airspace and you have a case.

 

It's getting a little old hearing the 'US is in the wrong' chant without even doing a little bit of research to see what the truth is vs what someone said.

 

FC

 

 

Whatever Chavez said is allways BS, never related to truth more than to his personal convenience. I would understand the fact of scrambling fighters to shadow the Orion if close to Venezuelan airspace, intercept and divert if violated it, if such thing ever happened- the same way i would understand with any other country regardless the regime in the same circumstances. But if at any moment my post seemed to mean that "Gringos are Satán", i´m sorry because that was not my point.

[MigBuster 2,884]

i remember you that's not the first time an USA aircraft is intercepted over venezuela, 2 years ago an S-3 Viking, did the same and the pilot, there is an Video on youtube where an venezuelan F-16 intercepts an U-2!.

 

 

 

This one?

 

He makes it to 56k before briefly getting the U2 in the HUD which is radar locked a few times but its up there. Cant tell if they are ever in range for an AIM-9 shot - which is the longest range missile they have - the vid is not high enough res.

 

[Silverbolt 104]

Prove that the P-3 flew into Venezualan airspace and you have a case.

 

Otherwise, it's 'he said, he said'. Bears would hover just outside the international line at 12 nautical miles. Which isn't dick at anything above 30000 feet. Ask Libya about that.

 

Speaking of which, I notice the video of the F-16s intercepting the U-2 at 37k. Deuces operate at twice that altitude...so if there were any REAL recon going on, there wouldn't have been an intercept.

 

More than likely, he was descending into an airfield and the F-16s wanted to take a look at it. It's called 'shadowing' and again, we did all the time when the Bears would come to play.

 

The S-2 is an anti-sub aircraft...not a whole lot of use over land.

 

 

It's getting a little old hearing the 'US is in the wrong' chant without even doing a little bit of research to see what the truth is vs what someone said.

 

FC

 

And a EP-3 is a SIGINT aircraft...pretty sure if I wanted to know about gold and native people, I'd have sent something else.

 

 

Indeed,but it still a recon aircraft equiped with high tech sensors, specially comunications but the media turned a snowball into an avalanche, if you put this plus the fact that US have been present here in south america for soo long with not of the best intentions thise caused an huge comotion in an anti-us wave, which IMO is not good.

 

the same applies to venezuela, the point is that here we most of time have not been brainwashed by the government , so we can understand as a mistake and let it pass, while in venezuela the government is rearming itself because of such provocation to get popular support to its regime...so US flights that are see as a provocation is only feeding the monster .

 

Proof of this , is that Supposed U-2 (supposed becase you guys planted an doubt in my head) inteception caused Chavez to Buy Russian S-300 System, which the media all around the south america turned an self defense weapon as a ballistic missile(lol, that's true), its the same video as chaves says that the BM-30 Smerch will shot down any imperialist threat flying over bolivarian soil(again its funny but true)

 

i know that the viking is an ASW aircraft, it was flying also from dutch island of curacao.

 

and btw, i'm not getting US on the wrong because there is no Wrong or right in this matter, just intrests. Chavez want keep his government feeded with an External enemy, which is USA and US wants take down this lunatic, IMO this is a matter of who feed who more.

[JediMaster 451]

Just remember this...the P-3 has shot down more fighters in the last decade than most nations' entire air forces.

[+Dave 2,322]

How about the fact that we overfly othet countries all the time and we have permission to do it. I highly highly doubt we were spying on gold reserves....I mean really can you come up with a BETTER excuse to bash the US because that is the lamest by far I have ever heard.

 

As far a Venezula is concerned, oh I have no doubt we were spying on them, Chavez is a lunatic, but prove to me that this nutjob is not looking for an excuse to be an asshole. Let him get stupid and take a shot at a US aircraft, the MF'er will get lit up like he has never seen before. Just give us an excuse Chavez, please, give us an excuse and we will smoke your sorry ass miltary with all their nice new planes and equipment. Oh man please I wish he would get dumb.

[Silverbolt 104]

How about the fact that we overfly othet countries all the time and we have permission to do it. I highly highly doubt we were spying on gold reserves....I mean really can you come up with a BETTER excuse to bash the US because that is the lamest by far I have ever heard.

 

As far a Venezula is concerned, oh I have no doubt we were spying on them, Chavez is a lunatic, but prove to me that this nutjob is not looking for an excuse to be an asshole. Let him get stupid and take a shot at a US aircraft, the MF'er will get lit up like he has never seen before. Just give us an excuse Chavez, please, give us an excuse and we will smoke your sorry ass miltary with all their nice new planes and equipment. Oh man please I wish he would get dumb.

 

Indeed Dave, i did'nt said that they were spying specially when FC reminds that its an SIGINT aircraft and US planes always do overflights , specially over colombia and Frenchi Guyane, if it was really doeing something ilegal it was probably intercepting narc comunications or monitoring the chaos that was going on that time(ie: indians wanted to rip off every unauthorized miner in they reserve).

 

i don't really give a s**t for this it could be a mistake or no, but the major issue on that is that the media ,ultra-conservative here, said that US was givig a s**t for our sovereignty, and most of time remembering the authoritarian governments that were here with US concern for so long, its a matter of bury the past, to avoid such sensitive theme here, specially when you have an government that was persuited by the right wig in autoritaian goverment times.

 

 

Indeed, Chavez is an asshole, but everything less idiot, he know that he can afford such diplomatic complications, so that's an cat and mouse game à la cold war one feeding other's excuse.

[MaverickMike 10]

Chavez is a nutjob who needs to be taken down a peg or two. Quite frankly IF the US is flying over Venezuelan airspace conducting 'recon' missions then good luck to them. Keeping check on nutter like chavez is quite important to US national security aswell as the security of the entire region.

 

Mike

[eraser_tr 29]

First of all, the plane may have been completely imaginary, it is Chavez...

 

Second, why should we give a damn about him, we're rather preoccupied at the moment and we have a whole other country we need to sink into the sea now (Yemen)

 

Lastly, who made those F-16's for him to be able to use? *cough* *cough*

[macelena 1,070]

First of all, the plane may have been completely imaginary, it is Chavez...

 

He has no need to speak a word of truth. It´s just weight in the balance of opinion. Bulls**t weights.

 

Second, why should we give a damn about him, we're rather preoccupied at the moment and we have a whole other country we need to sink into the sea now (Yemen)

 

You yankees should be able to deal with both. It just takes one bomb to kill him. If went fat after christmas, perhaps two

Lastly, who made those F-16's for him to be able to use? *cough* *cough*

 

Mattel

 

 

Btw In the event that anyone is missing it, recently Chavez is dealing with the crisis at his own style. He is to deploy troops to enforce the new government ordered, unreal exchange rate wiith USD

 

Please don´t laugh "The National Guard is to deploy on the side of the people to prevent speculation"

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

How about the fact that we overfly other countries all the time and we have permission to do it.

 

Who's permission? Joint Chiefs or the other governments? Because I'm pretty sure China had objections to that EP-3E they intercepted/crashed into over Hainan in 2k1. If the US does have an active program for ELINT in Venezuela, they'd definitely win themselves some widespread, grass roots Anti Chavez support just by jamming Chavez's Variety Show. Has anyone seen this? It's just like the Sam Rothstein show from the movie Casino, except with more Bush/US bashing and stupid pet tricks.

 

 

 

Off Topic:

 

The thing I find most interesting about Venezuela's F-16s is how after the sanctions came into effect, a lot of Western defense commentators said the F-16s wouldn't last long. That they lacked propper technical and maintenance expertise and spares would be impossible to come by. But they've done a damn good job and only cannibalised a fraction of the airframes thought they would need to (Several have been lost in crashes). Plus in exercises in Brazil, the 9(?) they sent performed well above expectation. What does surprise me is how their VF-5s are in worse condition than the F-16s and yet with Iran being something of a friend, I figured they'd be able to source parts and equipment through them...

 

...makes me wonder what they're doing with their F-16s that they're not doing with their F-5s.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Say What?!

[+Dave 2,322]

Who's permission? Joint Chiefs or the other governments? Because I'm pretty sure China had objections to that EP-3E they intercepted/crashed into over Hainan in 2k1. If the US does have an active program for ELINT in Venezuela, they'd definitely win themselves some widespread, grass roots Anti Chavez support just by jamming Chavez's Variety Show. Has anyone seen this? It's just like the Sam Rothstein show from the movie Casino, except with more Bush/US bashing and stupid pet tricks.

 

 

That statement goes to show how much you do not know how military assets are able to overfly a country. If you want and if you got an hour I would be glad to enlighten you on dip clearances.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

That statement goes to show how much you do not know how military assets are able to overfly a country. If you want and if you got an hour I would be glad to enlighten you on dip clearances.

 

Actually, I was thinking after I posted that that the US and China do interpret EEZ/UN Convention on the Law of the Sea quite differently, which was the crux of that particular issue. But yeah, I would be interested. Drop me a PM or something.

[Silverbolt 104]

@Dave:

Would you mind in include me too? i don't know a thing about that, just the old fashioned media reports. if you have some time , offcourse.

 

 

btw, instresting to see how those damn Venezuelan F-16s keep flying despites the embargos .

 

 

Btw In the event that anyone is missing it, recently Chavez is dealing with the crisis at his own style. He is to deploy troops to enforce the new government ordered, unreal exchange rate wiith USD

 

Please don´t laugh "The National Guard is to deploy on the side of the people to prevent speculation"

 

i've laught hard he really did said that?

[+Gepard 11,192]

If i read the most statements here i can again see why the US is so "well loved" all over the world. Its the attituide to say "I'm big, i can do that, and i will do what i want."

As a friend during my study times said: "The USA are a big dinosaur who want to be loved by all people of the world. But as a big animal he is so ignorant that he does not see if he is trampling small animals down. And then he is astonished if the small animals suddenly bite back."

Unfortunatly this is more than true.

[JediMaster 451]

Yeah, a lot of the so-called "leaders" here in fact do think like that exactly. Which side of the aisle they sit on merely serves to alter WHAT the other countries are to be grateful for and what tack to take if they're not.

 

That EP-3 didn't overfly Hainan, BTW, because it doesn't have to. It can fly well offshore and still monitor things, so they sent up fighters to try and get it to fly farther away with disastrous results.

[FastCargo 412]

As far as overflights, they can be perfectly legal if the proper clearances are filed. Just because some yutz on the ground doesn't know about it doesn't mean dick. As long as the respective governments (assuming they aren't at war) know about it through their channels, it's perfectly legal. It's done all the time.

 

And 12 miles is the internationally recognized rule. We are subject to it as well...but we can't do anything legal if Mr. Bear hovers at 12.1 miles off the coast and doesn't do any hostile moves. Back in the day, it was understood that was how the game was played...Eagles intercept Bears, we show them Playboys, they toast us with vodka. We both take some cool pics, then they leave and we go home.

 

FC

[+Dave 2,322]

If i read the most statements here i can again see why the US is so "well loved" all over the world. Its the attituide to say "I'm big, i can do that, and i will do what i want."

As a friend during my study times said: "The USA are a big dinosaur who want to be loved by all people of the world. But as a big animal he is so ignorant that he does not see if he is trampling small animals down. And then he is astonished if the small animals suddenly bite back."

Unfortunatly this is more than true.

 

My response is, screw the rest of the world if they don't like us. If they want to bend over and get taken over by some Islamic fundamentalist regime, or be ran by some peacenik leader or a lunatic dictator go right ahead, won't happen here. If that makes us arrogant, oh well.

[+Gepard 11,192]

Arroganz is the first step to underestimate an enemy. Underestimation is the first step in the mud. So it was in Korea, so it was in Vietnam, so it was in Iraq, so it was in Afghanistan ... Hopefully not in Venezuela.

Nobody is forced to love Chavez. But call him a MF or ass..le or nuts or crazy or stupid does not solve the problem. In contrary. You give him what he need, the outside enemy. Its so easy for Chavez to wave with the fingers and call the old song of "old bad imperialistic US". And his people will believe him.

Sometimes it is better to set on smart ideas than on the power of muscles. The war on the heads in the arabic world is already lost. And it are serious signs that the war on the heads will be lost in south america.