Interesting Interview with Ex-Taliban Fighter

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7530164/Taliban-fighters-are-conditioned-to-die-in-battle-claims-former-insurgent.html

 

I think the only way the fighting will ever stop..is by talking.

 

It's what the Brits had to do in Ireland..and although it left a bad taste in the Mouth, the only way forward then, was to release the convicted IRA terrorists.

 

The more the Taliban fighters realise, that their leaders are talking Bollocks...the more likely they will begin to leave the frontline.

 

I am quite encouraged for the first time.

[UnknownPilot 33]

 

The only way we will ever stop fighting is by going extinct. Conflict is part of what almost all life forms are. The human animal is still an animal, and it's nature. Nature is not bad. No human can know "better" than nature.

 

 

 

[eraser_tr 29]

 

 

Nature is not bad. No human can know "better" than nature.

 

 

It stopped being nature since we learned to farm, build fires, buildings, speak and write.

[MigBuster 2,884]

It stopped being nature since we learned to farm, build fires, buildings, speak and write.

 

Yes the fires really came in handy to burn buildings and farms down - and this speaking and writing business really helps us to disagree and tell non stop lies to whoever will listen.

 

Still about 40,000 years of non stop war on this planet and most of our technological achievment comes from the need to build better weapons - but your right a Tiger still has to use Teeth and claws to kill so we are more advanced in one respect

 

Buying the Taliban off might work but I cant see it - depends how closely they value their beliefs and how much hate they have. It might weaken them but the hard core will still exist.

Edited March 29, 2010 by MigBuster

[UnknownPilot 33]

It stopped being nature since we learned to farm, build fires, buildings, speak and write.

 

 

That's a cop-out, and incorrect. Is a beaver's dam not nature? What about a monkee's use of a stick to fish out food or as a weapon? What about a bird's nest (including those made from modern materials, which, admitedly don't work as well, but the point is it's still contruction of something for a purpose)?

 

An animal thought of it, it's natural. As natural as the desire for sex, sleep, or status (heirarchy) - which are all part in parcel of aggression. Thus, the point is, whether it's 2 animals fighting over food, mates, land, or a shiny object, it's nature, it's what life is, and what life does.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

 

Buying the Taliban off might work but I cant see it - depends how closely they value their beliefs and how much hate they have. It might weaken them but the hard core will still exist.

 

Well, I don't really see it as buying them off....I am sure there are many Taliban fighters sick to the back teeth of fighting for their oppressive Warlords.. Much like the Japanese were in WW2...they have been lied to...told that US and UK soldiers, will burn their villages and Mosques...and rape and Murder their Children.

 

Once (like happened to this guy) they see that as lies, more and more will probably put down their arms (especially if there is an amnesty)...and go back to their villages.

 

BUT they have to have something to go back to!...if it's just the fear of reprisal, and a dust bowl of nothing...why would they?

 

Most people agree, that you will never defeat them with Missiles, Bombs and Tanks...that strategy alone is doomed to failure...so the powers that be, must find alternatives as well..... Stick and Carrot is the only way forward (imho)

[UnknownPilot 33]

Well, it's like the saying goes - if brute force isn't solving your problem, you aren't using enough of it. ;)

 

 

 

 

Aside from that, you are probably right, but the downfall here is the liberals. That is not said to incite anyone. Honestly, even some modern day so-called conservatives are part of the problem as well, but it all stems from the same current liberal agenda/view. The idea that we have to make nice with them, come off as the rescuers and win mind-share through good deeds (or worse, just pull out and leave a vacuum).

 

This should be handled more like Japan. Send in a real hard bastard like MacArthur to write and HAND them their new gov't, no questions asked, this is just how it's gonna be. Then work the back end by helping their industry and as a result of that, the common folk can see some benefit. Meanwhile, the real solution is to get to their kids via their schools. We program our own kids to expect handouts and rely on the gov't for everything these days, so why can't we program theirs to stop buying in to the lies about the west?

 

Iraq and Afghanistan could be made into "pets", oases of calm in the middle of the $hit storm that is the middle east, but it'll never happen because it wouldn't be "politically correct".

 

And by-the-by, the entire islamic world has been at war with the west for over a thousand years. It's NOT going to stop by us trying to "make nice" with them.

 

Right now the current scape goat is the fact that we support and back Israel (as well we SHOULD). No amount of money or infrastructure rebuilding or even ad campaigns over there will make a lick of difference as long as Islam reigns supreme and we continue to support our allies. (it would be helped if we controlled the schools, even if just a bit, something is better than nothing)

[herman01 0]

Scared people have a problem with thinking and behaving rationally.

[+Julhelm 266]

UnknownPilot, do you actually believe that s**t you're posting or are you just trolling?

 

And by-the-by, the entire islamic world has been at war with the west for over a thousand years. It's NOT going to stop by us trying to "make nice" with them.

This quote alone proves you're either a troll or someone who belongs in a mental institution.

[shotdown 8]

 

 

And by-the-by, the entire islamic world has been at war with the west for over a thousand years. It's NOT going to stop by us trying to "make nice" with them.

 

 

 

Make it two trolls then, because I totally agree with Unknown pilot on that. My country was part of the front line for almost 800 years, you know.

[JediMaster 451]

No plan ever used against a nation-state (like Japan, Germany, etc) will ever work against an insurgency/terrorist group like the Taliban or Al-Qaeda. At no point will these insurgencies ever believe they've been conquered, there's no "marching on the Al-Qaeda capital".

Japanese and German soldiers stopped fighting when they heard their leaders surrendered and were ordered to stop fighting.

No Taliban or Al-Qaeda leader will surrender or offer cease-fire, so you can kill all of them you want but the ones that are left will keep fighting and recruiting new fighters and taking over as leaders. They have religious fanaticism behind them which gives each fighter a personal stake in their battle that no amount of killing their comrades-in-arms will overcome.

The ONLY way to "win" is to make them want to stop fighting. Assuming that what worked against one culture will work against another is the very reason we were so screwed in the Iraq invasion in the first place, assuming they'll be dancing in the streets and peace will reign by the end of 2003.

 

Personally, I think giving money to them is NOT the way to change their minds, but the problem is they're so insular I just can't imagine what will. You convince 5 of them to change heart, the others all assume they've been coerced or "possessed" or whatever and ignore them.

 

The left thinks making nice will make them want to stop, but it won't because they'll assume it's all lies and won't trust it. The right thinks more killing will make them want to stop, but it won't because that just reaffirms their belief that they must fight on and they'll recruit more and more.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

So, if that's the case Jedi Master (and I can see why you would come to that conclusion)...it's a totally no win situation for the West?

 

If that's the case, then it's just a case of containment!...keep them there...with a thin line of Khaki..in the hope that none manage to board a 767 or indeed, develop a WMD?....depressing thought indeed!

[macelena 1,070]

What about paying their funerals?

 

 

Now seriously, i guess that beyond starving their fighting capability by law enforcement like actions, there will allways be a residuary level of terrorism and insurgency we have to assume and keep fighting against as with any other crime, as far as there are not a clear and defined political will to defeat, but a lot of entities and individuals wich attack because of their mental issues. Crime

[+Julhelm 266]

Make it two trolls then, because I totally agree with Unknown pilot on that. My country was part of the front line for almost 800 years, you know.

And that totally translates to being at war for the past 1000 years, right?

[JediMaster 451]

Frankly, yes, the West can't win this one. If we expect the "hearts and minds" campaign to work, it has to be done by other cultures closer to theirs than ours is. That means more than half-hearted work by Iran and Pakistan and the Afghani tribes. It also means a fundamental shift in mentality for them.

Why is it that a Moslem will see an attack against another Moslem, even one living half a world away in a totally different culture, to be "an attack against your brother" or "all Islam"? You don't see any of the other religions thinking that way to the extent of sacrificing themselves in suicide gestures. Sure you'll see financial support and so on, but the difference in Islamic thinking puzzles me. For 8 years Iran and Iraq fought and you didn't hear a peep out of Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc. As soon as a non-Islamic country gets involved, though, it's "the Crusades all over again!" and the wackjobs incite the weak-minded to fight against the oppressors.

 

I mean, all these countries willing to fight Israel over Palestine, but not one willing to let them resettle in their own country?

"We will give money, weapons, even fight and die to get your land back! But, no, we don't want you living next door to us, UGH."

[Fubar512 1,350]

Well, it's like the saying goes - if brute force isn't solving your problem, you aren't using enough of it. ;)

 

 

 

 

The Ground Zero Ocean, future home of giant atomic eels

[+streakeagle 871]

All problems of inhabitants will be resolved the day the Earth runs out of resources. Some people want to fight wars, others want "free health care", but only a tiny few see every dollar spent on manned space flight to other planets as money well spent. Even if the entire world made an all-out effort to get to Mars and beyond, we might not make it there before our species faces extinction. But I know for sure we will never make it if we can't find the money to put men in orbit aournd the Earth or build a moon base. Without continuing significant research into manned spaceflight, this story has only one ending. Israel, the Palestinians, and everyone else will all die someday when we run out of either energy, air, or water or suffer some other catastrophic ending. With a lot of hard work and a little luck, humanity might be thriving somewhere else when this planet or even this solar system goes extinct. Too bad that most people are more interested in their own petty lives or in killing others in the name of their righteous religions and/or governments. Of course, a few world leaders could save us all the trouble and turn the world into a radioactive wasteland just to put us out of our misery.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

All problems of inhabitants will be resolved the day the Earth runs out of resources. Some people want to fight wars, others want "free health care", but only a tiny few see every dollar spent on manned space flight to other planets as money well spent. Even if the entire world made an all-out effort to get to Mars and beyond, we might not make it there before our species faces extinction. But I know for sure we will never make it if we can't find the money to put men in orbit aournd the Earth or build a moon base. Without continuing significant research into manned spaceflight, this story has only one ending. Israel, the Palestinians, and everyone else will all die someday when we run out of either energy, air, or water or suffer some other catastrophic ending. With a lot of hard work and a little luck, humanity might be thriving somewhere else when this planet or even this solar system goes extinct. Too bad that most people are more interested in their own petty lives or in killing others in the name of their righteous religions and/or governments. Of course, a few world leaders could save us all the trouble and turn the world into a radioactive wasteland just to put us out of our misery.

 

I hope we don't achieve inter-stella space travel...it would just lead to us f***ing up other planets as well as our own.

 

I like the quote.....

Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

[Capitaine Vengeur 263]

Very interesting testimony, indeed. It breaks with the common picture of unhuman creatures led by no rational motives, and dominated by pure evil. The Americans used to draw the same picture for the Japs during WWII, and old ideas die hard. And now that the Japanese make business, drink whiskey, colour their hair, in brief ape the Westerners rather then beheading their neighbours, they are good friends. I don't think that one day the Afghani will fall down to such a decay and abdication of pride (can't imagine them BBQing pork ribs while burping their ale and discussing NBA in front of their disused caves), but trying to understand each other would already be a great step forward. Such testimonies (if backed by serious inquiries about their truthfullness, of course) could greatly help.

 

The Japanese example has been quoted yet, with the mutual incomprehension, the Japanese believing that the White barbarians would torture them, rape their wives and cute their children in pieces if their homeland was occupied. But the situation was simplified by the fact that the Japanese obeyed to one single voice. The Emperor once said: "Asia is ours. Get the Whites out, clean Asia from their ungraceful presence. Show no mercy to them, neither to the Asians who would not bend fast enough. Your own lifes don't matter." The Japanese thought: "The Emperor said it. Right." The Emperor then said: "End the fight right now. Our enemies are now our friends, and they'll come to friendly occupy our land. Indeed, they are an unaesthetic and noisy nuisance, but you'll have to bear it." The Japanese thought: "The Emperor said it. Right again."

 

Such a simple solution is impossible in Talibanistan. There is not one single commanding and obeyed voice by God's Grace, but as many voices as there are warlords or local leaders, and these are obeyed only as long as they stay respected, by their charisma, courage and leadership, or simply by insuring feeding to their followers and their families (extorting money and goods to peasants and travelers, growing poppies fields and harvesting opium, etc). If one leader fall in disgrace or under bullets, some more will be eager to conquer the hot seat (by the way, one of my favourite war movies is still "The beast": shows how to become a Khan under fire).

[+Piecemeal 450]

 

Buying the Taliban off might work but I cant see it - depends how closely they value their beliefs and how much hate they have. It might weaken them but the hard core will still exist.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head there. Like Widowmaker said; Britain has had it's fair share already with the IRA. For the most part today, the British government and Sinn Fein are now on first name terms with each other, but in the background you've got these splinter group f**kwits who want to continue the fight their way. In otherwords, by force of arms. Those people are nothing more than a bloody nuisance who can't accept change. Continuity IRA ....... the Real IRA (c'mon! ).

 

I think the same will apply to the Taliban et al. No matter how much you buy these people there'll always be someone in the background that's never satisfied

[ElPatron 0]

The Ground Zero Ocean, future home of giant atomic eels

 

So that's where the Mighty Boosh's Eels Song comes from!!!

 

Back on topic:

 

Personally, I think giving money to them is NOT the way to change their minds, but the problem is they're so insular I just can't imagine what will. You convince 5 of them to change heart, the others all assume they've been coerced or "possessed" or whatever and ignore them.

 

Well, it will be a nice sollution to stop the fighters who are doing it for the money. Unless the percentage of brainwashed extremists is bigger than what I think