Mustang a real treat!

[dsawan]

Hi, this p-51 is a real treat. I tested over Germany CE terrain and looks good in USAF markings. I was wondering. Since there are no blank decals, is anyone working on RAF skins? Also, I wonder if pappychecksix's skins for the old p-5 for sf1 would be useful in this new model. His skins look good.

[+Dave]

Pappy's skins won't work. It's 2 different models altogether.

[+Wrench]

Yep, completely different mapping. HOWEVER....

 

any and all decals from any other F-51Ds will work just fine. You just need to dail in their placements.

 

Wonder how my nose arts will look on this one, what with the bump mapping and all.....????

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+FastCargo]

Pappy's skins won't work. It's 2 different models altogether.

 

"It's 2 different models"

 

Sorry, I couldn't help it...

 

FC

[+MigBuster]

Hi, this p-51 is a real treat. I tested over Germany CE terrain and looks good in USAF markings.

 

 

First time Ive flown a P-51 since EAW which had the B and D from what I remember. Interestingly shooting down MiG-15s and Vampires was not much of an issue once they decided to get slow, but the Spitfires - difficult to keep up with them, they decimated my entire flight 3 times with those 20mm cannons in a 4v4 - watch out for them!

[+Gocad]

Well, the Spitfire has actually only two "weaknesses" compared to the P-51....less top speed and no endurance

 

Other than that the Mark IX is either on par or slightly better than the Mustang, especially at low level.

 

Speaking of which, I'm tempted to spruce up the TW Spits a bit, might even get down to make a new template for it. Plenty of users in post-1945 Europe, so it's definitely worth the work involved.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Gocad

[+Brain32]

Well, the Spitfire has actually only two weaknesses compared to the P-51....less top speed and no endurance

 

Other than that the Mark IX is either on par or slightly better than the Mustang, especially at low level.

Yeah same engine, but Spitfire is(a lot) more draggy with bigger wings and different airfoil so it has a much better turn rate and climb rate. In game however I so easily owned Spits with a P-51D it was almost sad lol.

 

At first I just BnZed them to death, but that felt simply too easy so next flight I went close-in, again AI proved to be apsolutely no match whatsoever. The difference in manouverbility and style of fight between P-51D and the Spitfire should be pretty similar to the F-4 vs MiG-17 however it was not, I easily turned into spits and blasted them away...

[+Gr.Viper]

I easily turned into spits and blasted them away...

Umm.. how do you do it?

My experience with Spits is mostly

 

BTW, those 50 cal make P-51D a lousy CAS plane. Just one T-34 takes a lot of concentrated fire without rockets.

[+Fubar512]

Umm.. how do you do it?

Boom n Zoom....anticipate your opponent's move and nail him when he executes it. Even with GregoryP's FM (which makes it more challenging), the Mustang has no issues with AI Spits as long as you don't try turning with them.

[+Gocad]

BTW, those 50 cal make P-51D a lousy CAS plane. Just one T-34 takes a lot of concentrated fire without rockets.

 

And why is that a surprise? Sounds like expected behavior to me really.

They would be quite alright against light or unarmored targets...unfortunately neither exist in the TW series (unless you count in the armed recce missions)

[+Brain32]

Umm.. how do you do it?

My experience with Spits is mostly

Well first, I have a wagnload of virtual air combat expirience im multiplayer online with IL2 and I was damn hot at it against humans.

In IL-2 you couldn't turn with the Spitfire no matter what(which was wrong, Spit was uber turner at low speed but not at high), not an inch, zip, nada, here it's quite possible.

 

BnZ is basically entering the fight at higher speed and/or altitude or higher energy, but you know that already. Against Spits(first flight with the expansion), I just entered the fight at very high speed, broke their formation and zoomed up, after that to my dissapontment they had apsolutely no chance at all. Even simple loops worked, and yo-yo's were like magic insta-kill solution. Ofcourse they killed my whole AI flight so I had to fight them alone grrr.

 

Like I said that was boring so I tried fighting them, magic formula was, lag pursuit in a turn, when he stops turning hard G snap turn(real Stang would stall here) into him, trrrr goodbye - repeat.

 

Actually according to my present expirience with the game I would say MiG-17 is a better turnfighter than a Spit...either that or default FM Stang turns too good.

[Nightshift82]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, didn't the P-51 have a tighter turn at speed?

 

 

[+Brain32]

No not tighter, it's wings wouldn't handle it. The thing is it could make a sustained turn at speeds Spitfire couldn't.

 

An extreme example would be that if P-51D would initiate a turn at Spitfires top speed, there's nothing the Spit could do about it, since they are both at speed where Spitfire needs all it's power just to fly strait, he has no power "reserve" to sustain a turn at that speed.

[+guyran]

there's nothing the Spit could do about it...

 

The Spit can cut the throttle and break pulling maximum G, letting the P-51 to overshoot (less drag for the P-51, even with the same Merlin engine).

In slow speed now, the spit turns within the turning radius of the P-51.

It is suicidal for the Spit to keep turning at top speed.

Edited May 15, 2010 by guyran

[+MigBuster]

 

Actually according to my present expirience with the game I would say MiG-17 is a better turnfighter than a Spit...either that or default FM Stang turns too good.

 

It might appear to be because it can sustain a lot more energy - and Im normally in an F-4 when those things are about.

[+MigBuster]

No not tighter, it's wings wouldn't handle it. The thing is it could make a sustained turn at speeds Spitfire couldn't.

 

An extreme example would be that if P-51D would initiate a turn at Spitfires top speed, there's nothing the Spit could do about it, since they are both at speed where Spitfire needs all it's power just to fly strait, he has no power "reserve" to sustain a turn at that speed.

 

What model of Spitfire are you talking about here just the Mk9?

 

 

Does the clipped wing version fair any better?

[+Brain32]

The Spit can cut the throttle and break pulling maximum G, letting the P-51 to overshoot

 

Yes and that's a defensive move, it will give a great advantage to the Stang pilot.

 

What model of Spitfire are you talking about here just the Mk9?

Does the clipped wing version fair any better?

Clipped wing versions are very slightly faster at low alt, and roll a bit better(full winged Spits had a poor roll rate), everything else remains the same.

EDIT: Ofcourse they also can't turn as good as full winged versions(but still better than most ww2 planes).

Edited May 15, 2010 by Brain32

[+Gr.Viper]

Ah, forget Spits... Anything P-51 can do against Vampire? They have a nasty habit of ripping my wing off in a head-on pass.

[+MigBuster]

Ah, forget Spits... Anything P-51 can do against Vampire? They have a nasty habit of ripping my wing off in a head-on pass.

 

Have stuffed Vampires with every new plane so far - same cant be said for my wingies. On all hard settings you can generally out turn them in the P-51 while checking your 6 a lot - I rarely go head to head with the AI in anything with guns - its 50/50.

[+Gr.Viper]

I've driven a oak stake into them too. It's just that they seem to enjoy head to head attacks a lot. If you get on their tail they're toast.

 

Maybe another round of asking TK to improve dogfighting AI is in order?

[+MigBuster]

This might be down to the pilot level of training - which is PilotTrainingStandard=POOR for Syria/egypt.

 

Extract nations.ini and change to NORMAL or EXCELLENT and see if they are any better.

[+Gr.Viper]

Might be easier to test in SF2E. I bet RAF has slightly higher standards.

[+Gocad]

Have stuffed Vampires with every new plane so far - same cant be said for my wingies. On all hard settings you can generally out turn them in the P-51 while checking your 6 a lot - I rarely go head to head with the AI in anything with guns - its 50/50.

 

That's interesting, considering that the Vampire put the Spitfire XIV to shame in pretty much every aspect, including the turning circle....do I have to mention that the Spitfire XIV on the other hand was a superior aircraft compared to the P-51? (Don't mention endurance though)

[+Gr.Viper]

Test flight of 16 Polish Stangs vs 16 RAF Spits in 1948 Europe.

P-51D training normal, Spit training excellent. Score 16:0 with RAF owning the opposition.

P-51D and Spit training excellent (well, excluding me). Score 16:2, with pretty much the same result. Only AI kills, I'm too busy checking my 6.

 

Funny, but initially the game assigned 8 Mustangs for that mission.

 

What I noticed is that AI turns Spits smoother that P-51. Mustangs jerk about in every banking turn.

 

What's P-51D max speed in level flight by whatever measurement it has on cockpit instrument? So slowww... and bleeds speed with each surface movement.

[+Julhelm]

Mustang is a high altitude finesse fighter and not turn&burn dogfight shooter plane.