SF2: Tomcat Speculation

[+Stary 2,426]

I keep thinking of Baltic scenario.

 

Remember there are plans for TWO expansion packs for SF2Europe prior to Tomcat, so building OOB for this part of the globe for re-use with Tomcat points towards Baltic (or GIUK) theatre.

 

And yes, I'm dying to see some preview shots of the terrain engine -as TK stated at some point -no editor, all build in MAX and paint programs... I think the update to older terrains would be quite challenging

 

...and brand new SF2 title in 2011... man...

[Gr.Viper 131]

Did he say 2 packs for Europe or just 2 (one for Europe)?

[column5 62]

Did he say 2 packs for Europe or just 2 (one for Europe)?

 

Here is what we know:

 

"...next SF2 game is not Falklands."

 

"...we're not doing any modern realistic sim..."

 

"we're doing SF2 Tomcat game, but no, its not going to have detailed carrier or AI (at least not beyond what we currently have)"

 

"We're working on another SF2 Expansion Pack for the summer"

 

"third SF2 Expansion Pack for the fall"

 

"SF2 Tomcat game for the Christmas"

 

"games we're releasing this year (FE2, SF2 Tomcat, SF2 Expansion 1, WOI expansion, etc)"

 

"Both SF2 Exp2 and Exp3 will be for SF2 Europe. Exp2 will cover campaigns set in the late 50s to early 60s, and Exp3 will cover campaigns set in the late 40s to early 50s"

 

"FE2 Expansion will be next summer at the earliest"

 

"we already have a whole new SF2 game planned after that as well"

 

"there will be no F-14 sim using the first-gen engine"

[+streakeagle 865]

As the F-14A in TK's time frame was only employed in air-to-air applications and photo recon, I would expect any F-14 sim to only assign F-14s to fleet defense (which is really a CAP), interception, escort, sweeps, and recon, all of which would fit just fine into a naval or coastal conflict. Libya would definitely support ground strikes to be escorted/swept by F-14s.

 

I do see one other hypothetical situation that fits really well with what TK has already done: US intervention in Lebanon after Syria and/or Israel invade?

 

A key factor is the fact that this will be some sort of new terrain. If Vietnam, Israel, and Europe are ruled out, what other area would be a good hypothetical conflict for a mid 70s to early 80s time frame? South America (Nicaragua, El Salvador)? Cuba? Africa? Japan/Taiwan/China? Korea?

 

Korea would be a great choice as it would continue to lay the foundation for a 1950's Korean War game. Since South Korea mainly used US assets TK has already modeled and North Korea mainly used USSR/China assets TK has already modeled, the terrain would be the only big part to do.

[eraser_tr 29]

 

And yes, I'm dying to see some preview shots of the terrain engine -as TK stated at some point -no editor, all build in MAX and paint programs... I think the update to older terrains would be quite challenging

 

Where does he say it will be built in MAX and paint programs? If that's the case, we'd be able to design some fantastic stuff! Max can import practically everything, from landscapes generated by dedicated terrain engines to entire forests of speedtree trees. And there are already Max tools for FS9/FSX terrain, which has been the best terrain so far in flight sims.

[column5 62]

I do see one other hypothetical situation that fits really well with what TK has already done: US intervention in Lebanon after Syria and/or Israel invade?

 

Great point! There were air strikes against Hezbollah targets in Lebanon in December 1983 in response to a SAM being fired at an F-14. Expanding on that event would be very logical.

 

With regard to TK choosing a theater without much potential for strike missions, I was making an assumption--possibly a bad one--that the F-14 would not be the only player flyable aircraft in this new sim.

[Murphy'S 15]

"Both SF2 Exp2 and Exp3 will be for SF2 Europe. Exp2 will cover campaigns set in the late 50s to early 60s, and Exp3 will cover campaigns set in the late 40s to early 50s"

 

 

so what new flyables planes could we expect for those two time frame?

[+Stary 2,426]

Did he say 2 packs for Europe or just 2 (one for Europe)?

 

as I understand both for Europe

[+Spectre_USA 7]

Going further back in time?

 

Oh, bummer. I had hoped for something a bit more modern, as I've been flying a lot of

Operation Bear Hunt with the cool stuff modders have put out.

 

I am 2 missions into an SR-71, recce only campaign, which is a hoot.

 

A Tomcat over Europe would be very cool...

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

tr::

Where does he say it will be built in MAX and paint programs? If that's the case, we'd be able to design some fantastic stuff! Max can import practically everything, from landscapes generated by dedicated terrain engines to entire forests of speedtree trees. And there are already Max tools for FS9/FSX terrain, which has been the best terrain so far in flight sims.

Vast thin 3D cloud layers with holes in them may be possible.

 

I've always hoped to see 3D towering cumulus clouds, either single or in clumps, and they now can make good use of the new bump mapping. These would interact well in the SF Sun....and have flat bottoms in shadow of the SF sun.

 

The old Su-27 FLAKER 1.0 sim of 1995 had simple polygon clouds that were more realistic than the puffy non-existent textures (pure texture, nothing else) found in all TheSims since then. Flak puff tiny "cumulus" cloud non-textures were a huge step backwards in sim development since the 1990s.

[+Stary 2,426]

Where does he say it will be built in MAX and paint programs? If that's the case, we'd be able to design some fantastic stuff! Max can import practically everything, from landscapes generated by dedicated terrain engines to entire forests of speedtree trees. And there are already Max tools for FS9/FSX terrain, which has been the best terrain so far in flight sims.

 

Re: TK - Any possiblity of a new (er) Terrain editor

 

Post by TK » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:06 pm

 

Well, the next SF2 game, the F-14 game, is going to have a new terrain, and its creation doesn't use our TE at all.

 

Also, the last 3 terrains we did (one for Israel and two for First Eagles) already weren't using TE much for editing, most of the editing work there were done in Photoshop. TE were used just to save out the final data (and some minor final touch-ups). We're writing new version of terrain engine to bypass even that, and we'll be using Max and Photoshop for terrain creation.

TK

 

[Gr.Viper 131]

so what new flyables planes could we expect for those two time frame?

My guess is flyable Vampires and F-84 (their stock LODs seem well detailed). Sabre? Maybe TK will bring back F-104? Can't imagine the addons without Lightning though.

[+Stary 2,426]

+1 for Lightning

 

more ground activity would be nice, with mixed units types

 

edit:

 

some prop for red side maybe?

Edited June 17, 2010 by Stary

[JediMaster 451]

All I can see is "if you like TW sims, you're going to be buying a lot this year."

I got FE2 and the SF2I expansion, can't wait to see the next ones!

[+Stary 2,426]

All I can see is "if you like TW sims, you're going to be buying a lot this year."

I got FE2 and the SF2I expansion, can't wait to see the next ones!

 

ain't it wonderful?

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,545]

All those expansions seem to be a financial push for TK, maybe he will create much more complex stuff in the future?! Hope so!

[eraser_tr 29]

Well after this year, he's got to be in the best shape he's ever been with TW.

 

Stary, that explains why IsraelME and the FE terrains look a bit nicer. I wonder if target/object placement can be done in Max.

[+streakeagle 865]

Wasn't there a post a long time ago in which TK stated that the F-14 was enough work that it would be the only new flyable aircraft in its game whenever he got around to adding it? I would expect A-7s, F-4s, and possibly A-4s to be the other USN flyables in the 1973-1982 time frame. Unless he suddenly decided to bring the A-6 back, which is very unlikely. For the sake of variety, would he make sure the hypothetical scenario was geographically positioned to allow for other flyable allies besided USN using previously released aircraft? USAF, Israel, RAF, France? Korea would easily allow for USAF/South Korean support. Whereas middle eastern locations largely leave only Israel. A GIUK setting could get the USAF involved from Keflavik.

 

Lebanon really looks attractive from TK's low budget perspective: reuse almost 100% of SF2I plus the naval components of SF2V, add a new map, the F-14, and a campaign or two and you are pretty much done. AI non-flyables would be needed to round out the 80's carrier deck and the F-4N/S would be extra work to do the flyables correctly.

[+streakeagle 865]

As for TK's financial situation, he never gives too many details, but he has stated that sales plummeted with the economy which forced him to drop his prices. The combination of lower sales and lower prices means that he has to release more products in the same time just to break even. Open modability has really hurt TK's potential sales. Just from the various support forums I have seen many posts where the poster admits that they have just one or two versions of the game and rely on free downloads to fill in the rest of their needs. Additionally, there are a significant number of "loyal fans" that can not or will not upgrade to any of the SF2 sims due to financial constraints, operating system limitations, hardware limitations, or simply being satisfied with the original series. There are even a handful who won't buy another copy of the series unless multiplayer is reinstated. So I think TK's productivity reflects his eagerness to keep Third Wire in business despite the effects of the global economy on his already limited niche customer base.

Edited June 18, 2010 by streakeagle

[+ST0RM 145]

As many fans of the Tomcat that are out there, this could help TK out of the recession slump as we've not had a decent dedicated F-14 sim since Fleet Defender.

 

If TK goes the same route as previous titles, an A-to-G mod will quickly pop up and you'll be BombCat-ing and no time.

 

Now it's just a waiting game.

 

-S

[+Gocad 26]

As many fans of the Tomcat that are out there, this could help TK out of the recession slump as we've not had a decent dedicated F-14 sim since Fleet Defender.

 

If TK goes the same route as previous titles, an A-to-G mod will quickly pop up and you'll be BombCat-ing and no time.

 

Now it's just a waiting game.

 

-S

 

There is actually no mod necessary to turn TK's Tomcat into a Bombcat....the TW USAF F-15 from WOE was able to drop LGBs as well. But I guess TK still hasn't changed the AI to handle LGBs and other precision guided weapons properly.

Not to mention seeing AI wingmen launching a barrage of AIM-54s or AIM-120s without having a lock on the target...

[JediMaster 451]

It's true that not enough people are supporting TK as well as they could. Some are themselves in genuine financial trouble themselves, so you can't blame them. Others are simply...cheap. Buying just one or two and then relying on free mods to do the rest just is lame. You know those people aren't buying the payware either!

I'm all for him putting MP in, too, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the SP side.

[Gr.Viper 131]

Maybe we should ask The Man for expansion teaser pics?

[+Stary 2,426]

Maybe we should ask The Man for expansion teaser pics?

 

or even better Cat pit when in locked mode with new terrain behind the HUD

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

streak::

Open modability has really hurt TK's potential sales. Just from the various support forums I have seen many posts where the poster admits that they have just one or two versions of the game and rely on free downloads to fill in the rest of their needs. Additionally, there are a significant number of "loyal fans" that can not or will not upgrade to any of the SF2 sims due to financial constraints, operating system limitations, hardware limitations, or simply being satisfied with the original series.

Thanks for poasting this. I had no idea.

 

There must be a way. Oleg Maddox has hinted at allowing 3rd Party aircraft and other item modders sending their mods to the Moscow Bureau for "official approval" by his team. TK could provides basic out-of-box aircraft, say the original series, and the basic desert terrain and campaign, and focus on developing the basic game engine.

 

 

Lowengrin single handed saved Forgotten Battles for the offline players with his own dynamic campaign engine. That's impossible in the ThirdWire series. TK's greatest blunder has been never making a map wide combat recorder that outputs all combat events to a simple text file.txt. This has kept the sim closed to 3rd Party dynamic campaign engines, where FB/PF was open to this by virtue of the map wide eventlog text file.

 

I mostly fall under: "loyal fans" that can not or will not upgrade to any of the SF2 sims due to simply being satisfied with the original series. But not entirely. I would love to go SF2 but need features of the old game that have been either deleted for reasons that hurt me, or replaced by "new" features that I cannot tolerate at all until I can find a fix. I take these changes as a business descision by TK.