German world war one bureaucracy simulated in BHaH?

[vonOben 55]

Hi

 

Submitted my first claims 1 ½ month ago but no confirms nor rejects has been given. Is it normal that it takes a few months to handle such matters in BHaH?

I can understand that there are more important matters than handling a German fliegers submitted claims when a war is going on and my pilot will most likely be dead and buried before the claims has been handled.

 

I don’t know how long it actually took to handle claims during the war, perhaps is OFF trying to simulate the German world war one bureaucracy?

 

Cheers

 

vonOben

[Olham 164]

No, vonOben - that is not the normal way.

They either get confirmed or rejected after a couple of days - not after months.

 

There must be something wrong your end; most likely in the way you wrote the claim.

I had similar problems a long time ago, until I found out, that the semicolon is used as a stop-sign

in the program of OFF. So, if you write a claim with a semicolon in it, the program will not handle

anything after that sign. Which means, your witnesses for example would not get listed.

 

Also make sure to fill the names of your wingmen in at the top of the claim form, and get the names

written right, with first name and family name, no ranks.

 

If you want me to check your claim, go here:

 

(your sim folder) > campaigns > CampaignData > pilots

 

from there, please copy that claim. If your pilot is No. 2 in the sim's log, he has one higher number in

the folders, so he would be "Pilot3". So copy "pilot3 claims", or just that one claim line out of there,

and send me a PM with it, if you want; I'll check it then.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Olham

[Creaghorn 10]

i might be wrong but i think the manager doesn't count days to confirm or reject a claim, but rather the number of mission flown since. let's say if the manager confirms it randomly between 5-10 missions, and after your claim you fly every single sortie, the confirmation might be there after 2 days or so, because you have flown 2 or 3 sorties a day, therefor 4-6 sorties in two days. if you get hospitalizied after your claim, or if you skip a lot of missions, then it could be that you are 6 weeks later, but in those 6 weeks you haven't flown the amount the manager needs to give you a result.

[Bullethead 12]

I find the time it takes to get a ruling is highly variable, regardless of nationality. Sometimes I get confirmation or denial within a few days, sometimes as long as 7 weeks later, and meanwhile more recent claims have been ruled on before some of the older ones.

 

I don't quite agree with Creaghorn about the number of missions flown between filing and ruling. That has something to do with it, but I really think it has to do with how often time advances, whether you fly or not. I think the campaign does all its bookkeeping while time is advancing., and only does 1 update to the books (wingmen dying, ruling on your claims, etc.) once per time advancement. So, if you're flying multiple sorties per day, you get multiple checks for a claim ruling each day. If bad weather keeps you grounded for several days, you only get 1 check for a ruling in all that time.

 

The way I think it works, each time advancement has a percent chance of causing a ruling on your claim. If a ruling happens, then there's a subsequent check against the claim's chance of being confirmed, and you're told the rusults. If no ruling happens, then the claim remains pending and goes through another check for a ruling at the next time advancement. I also think there's a built-in delay that makes it take at least 24 hours to get a ruling, regardless of how many checks happen during that time.

 

Because each claim seems to be independent of your others, you can have later claims confirmed or denied before earlier claims. And it's possible to NEVER get a ruling on a claim, because each time advancement, it might get a bad "roll" on the ruling check. That seems perfectly fair to me, because there's no telling how many motorcycles full of claims reports got caught in bombardments of the roads behind the front

 

 

[+Polovski 460]

aaaah the fog of war love it :)

[Olham 164]

Those who haste from victory to victory for the fame and the medals,

will find their deeds chiseled into their early gravestones!

(I must know that - I must have died a hundred times by now!)

[nbryant 8]

Don't think it will make you feel any better but I have been playing this game for some time now and have NEVER had a claim verified....... and I didn't use semi colons or anything else I think that was wrong other then combining some kills into one entry. Usually....... I didn't live long enough. I have had a few pilots though that I nursed through 15 or more missions with 20+ hours and a number of claims but never received any verifications, or medals, or anything.

 

Still, despite the lack of recognition I am compelled to fly over and over as OFF keeps calling me back. One day I shall learn to survive and look forward to taking down those funky Alb's of Olham's...... ;)

[Bullethead 12]

Don't think it will make you feel any better but I have been playing this game for some time now and have NEVER had a claim verified.......

 

But have you had any denied? Whether confirmed or denied, it's a ruling either way. If you're getting no rulings, you're having bad luck. If you're getting only denials, then you need to improve your claim reporting.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

 

I believe vonOben was on the right track in his initial post. Bureaucracy...

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

hee, hee, hee

 

 

 

.

[rabu 9]

Excellent! I needed that lift tonight. Thanks,

[Creaghorn 10]

 

I don't quite agree with Creaghorn about the number of missions flown between filing and ruling. That has something to do with it, but I really think it has to do with how often time advances, whether you fly or not. I think the campaign does all its bookkeeping while time is advancing., and only does 1 update to the books (wingmen dying, ruling on your claims, etc.) once per time advancement. So, if you're flying multiple sorties per day, you get multiple checks for a claim ruling each day. If bad weather keeps you grounded for several days, you only get 1 check for a ruling in all that time.

 

The way I think it works, each time advancement has a percent chance of causing a ruling on your claim. If a ruling happens, then there's a subsequent check against the claim's chance of being confirmed, and you're told the rusults. If no ruling happens, then the claim remains pending and goes through another check for a ruling at the next time advancement. I also think there's a built-in delay that makes it take at least 24 hours to get a ruling, regardless of how many checks happen during that time.

 

Because each claim seems to be independent of your others, you can have later claims confirmed or denied before earlier claims. And it's possible to NEVER get a ruling on a claim, because each time advancement, it might get a bad "roll" on the ruling check. That seems perfectly fair to me, because there's no telling how many motorcycles full of claims reports got caught in bombardments of the roads behind the front

 

 

 

i think you are quite correct BH. at least something like this.

[Olham 164]

nbryant: Still, despite the lack of recognition I am compelled to fly over and over as OFF keeps calling me back.

One day I shall learn to survive and look forward to taking down those funky Alb's of Olham's...... ;)

Bordeauxred Baron: Funkee Albs? Vott's zatt? Perhapps hee means "bunter Albtraum?" (colourful nightmare)

 

nbryant and vonOben, after recent observations, I recommend to fill in each aircraft downed into a seperate line.

That's because I saw in my files, that one day I got one Pup confirmed, and another denied - in the same claim.

Had they been all in one line, they might have all got rejected together.

 

This is one of my claims, as the sim stored it into the claim files. Sometimes I write them more wordy, sometimes not.

But this claim got confirmed. The semicolons are written by the program of course - you should NEVER use semicolons.

I marked the parts, which the program wrote, in purple; the bits I had clicked or written are black:

20/;6/;1917 ;12h;0 ;Flanders ;Bisseghem ;Airfield Defense ; Flying: Albatros DIII. On this day claims: ;1 ;Single Seater Type. ;

Patrolling to defend Iseghem airfield, my 6 Albatros got under attack from 3 fighters of the new type with the inline engine.

While we turned with them, Albatros D.V from Jasta 10 joined in to help. I hit one craft with three bursts. It caught fire and

crashed at 11:50 h at Rumbeke airfield..

Witnessed by: Arnold Jordan, Kurt Bertram, Manfred Waechter, Ernst Matthes, Gunther Gros Status : Confirmed ;

 

Write the names of your wingmen first name, family name, comma, space - that should work for everyone.

[Capitaine Vengeur 263]

I believe vonOben was on the right track in his initial post. Bureaucracy...

You can lose worst than a claim form to bureaucracy. During WW2, the Italian ace Adriano Visconti had a recommandation for a Silver Medal for Valor (second-highest award for bravery) lost to the infamous Italian bureaucracy (date for the work to be done: "Domani mattina", tomorrow morning). Fortunately, he earned four others (instead of five), plus two bronze ones.

[vonOben 55]

Hi guys

 

Thanks for sharing your ideas!

 

I never use semicolon or ranks when writing claims and I write each aircraft downed into a separate line. My claim forms are however not written as detailed as Olham does.

Like nbryant have I never got any claims confirmed, but not rejected either.

If I can survive a few missions more then perhaps something will happen.

 

Cheers

 

vonOben

[Olham 164]

Okay, I just checked the time between claims and confirms in my system.

I usually get the confirmations 4 days later, even when I only flew one sortie per day.

Now it may well be, that it feels very long for you, when you fly all possible sorties of each day,

cause you may fly 4 sorties per day, which would make 16 sorties in 4 days, before you'd get

any confirmations.

So, if you want to see some confirms, just make one sortie per day; then advance time to the date

of next day, for your next flight. Or have patience - and survive!

[Hasse Wind 46]

I think Sir Nary has often dealt with my claims!

 

I've seen claims get approved (or rejected) sometimes in a few days, but every now and then it takes considerably longer. The only time I haven't heard back from the esteemed gentlemen at the Claims Office is when my pilot has been lost and the campaign ends, though sometimes I've gotten a claim confirmed on the same day (as if that did any good any more at that point!) In my opinion, the claims system works quite well in OFF. I'm looking forward to what improvements P4 will bring with it, though.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Hasse Wind, I KNOW Sir Nary has personally filed many of my claims in his "circular folder". Also, as I understand it, if P4 developes the Eastern and Italian fronts the BHaH International Board of Decision Making and Claims Approval already has two associate members on the payroll that will handle those areas: Yorgittn Dakysoff from Moscow, and Approvia Negatorri from Rome.

 

.

[vonOben 55]

Hi

 

I survived the next mission and all 10 claims were then ready at the same time! :yes:

5 kills confirmed, 5 were rejected and I also was awarded with the iron cross.

 

Cheers

 

vonOben

[Olham 164]

There you are - congratulations, vonOben!

Generally, you may get about a third of all claims rejected.

Which squadron and craft are you flying?

[vonOben 55]

Thanks,

Jasta 2 in October 1916 flying an Albatros DII

I recall I forgot to type in witnesses for a few of those claims, so that explains why I had 50% rejected.

 

Cheers

 

vonOben

Edited July 10, 2010 by vonOben

[Olham 164]

Yes, that explains it.

If you should get killed and want to start again there:

Jasta 2 get the Albatros D.I earliest of all Jasta - I think on September 9th.

You will get the same craft, as we don't yet have the D.I yet.

You would have a bit longer time of good weather then, before nasty November comes.

[Hasse Wind 46]

Von Oben, you lucky bastard! If Sir Nary had been assigned to handle your claims, you'd have gotten only one confirmed, and that only on a good day.

 

Lycka till med jakten!

[vonOben 55]

Lycka till med jakten!

 

Tack Hasse!

[Bullethead 12]

I believe vonOben was on the right track in his initial post. Bureaucracy...

 

I suppose the Americans would want their own board of claims-deniers, to go with their own army and air force. I figure they'd give the contract to the infamous firm of Dewey, Cheatum, & Howe.

[Morris 2]

VonOben,

 

Congrats, That first medal awarded always looks great on a new Jasta Pilot.

 

Well done.

 

m