SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[cougar_1979 37]

If you are flying against a human, you may try some rudder imput when going head on, right before you line up your shot. If done right, it may actually throw his first aim at you a bit off, but don't expect any miracles. You may gain 1/2s to 1s in this way. Aside from that......... it is as Saisran said, with a marker and limited time,  he gets perfect situational awarenss, so even ambushing will be hard.

[Robert33 2]

If you are flying against a human, you may try some rudder imput when going head on, right before you line up your shot. If done right, it may actually throw his first aim at you a bit off, but don't expect any miracles. You may gain 1/2s to 1s in this way. Aside from that......... it is as Saisran said, with a marker and limited time,  he gets perfect situational awarenss, so even ambushing will be hard.

It's definitely worth trying. My work's cut out for me and any tactic is better than none.

[saisran 84]

It's against a human opponent. Not to brag but the AI in this game is not enough to make me fly like this. They only have numbers on their side and they fly in a pattern in such a way that I can afford to turn and burn a bit in the F-104 (which is asking for trouble admittedly).

@saisran

Yes, there's a timer in the game and each match starts out in a neutral head-on course.

I that case the game will greatly favor fast nimble a like the sabers. better practice the gunnery and head on approach. if you'require able to get him more than half the time on the game of chicken you'll force him on the defensive. you better prepare to be on the receiving end for a while.

[saisran 84]

It's against a human opponent. Not to brag but the AI in this game is not enough to make me fly like this. They only have numbers on their side and they fly in a pattern in such a way that I can afford to turn and burn a bit in the F-104 (which is asking for trouble admittedly).

@saisran

Yes, there's a timer in the game and each match starts out in a neutral head-on course.

I that case the game will greatly favor fast nimble a like the sabers. better practice the gunnery and head on approach. if you'require able to get him more than half the time on the game of chicken you'll force him on the defensive. you better prepare to be on the receiving end for a while.

 

Cougar''s advice might actually help you out a lot. if you get the timing down you could yaw your plane out of his piper and placed your piper on him just within your range. it might give you that tenth of a second difference to put your rounds into him before he can adjust.

[Robert33 2]

I that case the game will greatly favor fast nimble a like the sabers. better practice the gunnery and head on approach. if you'require able to get him more than half the time on the game of chicken you'll force him on the defensive. you better prepare to be on the receiving end for a while.

I guess that's how the situation will be for a while... For the record, I have no problem with the Savres and similar aircraft... I'm more worried about the MiG-19 and 21...

[Robert33 2]

Ok... I had a rematch with the same player. This time he was using a MiG-21 (1968).. Me still with the same F-104C 1966 version He got me under the ff circumstances:

1) it was a head-on.

2) we were a good distance from each other (specks at a distance) and closing at each other at approx. 400+ kts

3) his Atoll-A hit me with no visual or rwr cues.

 

I'm not taking away his win since he flew really well, but do you guys think it's lag?

[Robert33 2]

Update: I finally saw the video from his point of view. It does look like lag from my end since his missile was pretty much visible.

[saisran 84]

Have just reinstalled SF2NA exp pack and some other campaigns based on the EXPack. After toiling around in the F-4B i decided to takeout the tomcat for a quick DACT

 

F-14A+vs Mig-29A 

 

I fought the Fulcrum twice with the first battle developing into a two circle and ending in a mid air collision that broke apart the tomcat and disintegrated the fulcrum. So i had another go at it. This time more mindful of a collision. If you like to watch the vid's below and its kinda long. 

 

 

I was up and the fulcrum came low at the merge. I let him pass underneath and rolled the tomcat into a split S to go after the fulcrum. Sorta forgot that i was in a TW cat and pulled to hard and wasted a lot of energy, so i pushed the tomcat down again into a descending spiral to trade altitude to speed. I wanted to get to above 320 Kias as i know that the fulcrum can't touch the cat at those speeds and he'll have to go over 400Kias just to match the tomcat's turn. we entered into a horizontal one circle at some point the tomcat drifted to 400Kias and i had to throttle down to avoid washing-out in a wide turn or completely blacking out for having to pull harder on the stick. eventually i was able to get in a more positive position with him above my 3/9 line so i settled in and prepare to for a long fight. I need to burn just the right amount of fuel and i need to be on a position where i can quickly get advantage of the change in the tomcat's performance. The plan was to be in a circle for 5 mins but i underestimated how quickly i can catch the Fulcrum in the TW cat. The cat clawed the fulcrum in and i was able to get  some shots in. Unfortunately its a spray and pray and none connected. Immediately the fulcrum lit his cans, showing the difference in acceleration, extended and change directions. even though i was able to follow and threaten i was out of position for a good gun solutions, i had another go on the same turn but i was carrying too much speed, the controls are locked and im blacking out. He then tried to reverse back to the left. i had the tomcat level waiting for him to cut across my gun sight. Fired two short burst and both was off. The tomcat now felt lighter on the acceleration and i was gaining speed a lot quicker, but then again i felt the controls lock up as i sped past 500 kias and i almost became a lawn dart. As i was fighting to regain control the fulcrum made a 180 and we went into another merge. Once m ore the fulcrum decided on a head to head. Not wanting to give the fulcrum a definite advantage i forced the tomcat to turn around. The fulcrum went at me with his guns blazing. Though not really in a firing position i fired a couple of shots as a deterrent. we passed and came round one more time. This time i had too much G's and blacking out. Despite pushing the stick forward the tomcat seems to have caught an over speed buffet and is curving on its vector regardless of input. I'm blacking out and i cant really where he is... i decided to roll the tomcat to avoid getting shot at. listening to him pass by i pulled the tomcat up on the vertical. The lift caught by the tomcat pushed the plane all the way through the loop. As i regain visual inside the cockpit the fulcrum is on its way up to meet me. he fired a couple of shot which was off. his right intake was right on the piper and the tomcat is in a stable descent so i fired a burst. Sparks flew off the fulcrums right wing. In my mind i was hoping that i damaged his wing just enough to limit his movement. but looking at the external view shows his plane in a lot of smoke and shortly after the fulcrum hit the ground.

 

 

I had never experienced the controls of the F-14 locking up before. May be i just haven't flown the TW tomcat into those parameters or maybe there's a mod included in one of the installs i placed in my mod folder, or maybe its just my 3dpro showing problems. Intentional or not i kinda like this effect. It somehow makes sense if a purely mechanical controls locks up during highspeed flights, it forces me to be more mindful of the throttle and airspeed so i think its a good thing. 

 

As for the fight. The fulcrum will either draw you out in a highspeed battle or draw you in a head to head. If your in the TW cat just sustaining a turn at 320 Kias will allow you to match his even if hes going 400 or 600 kias. Sure hell be able to get out of it by bleeding energy and doing one sharp turn. but if you're patient enough you definitely have him in your kill shot. Going head to head isn't really advisable either as your a much bigger target and he has better aplha than you. I was just lucky that this Ai was such a bad shot that i was able to get the win.

[Caesar 305]

Saisran, usually when the controls suddenly lock, or go uncommanded nose-down (typically what I find happens), it means the cord connecting my stick to my throttle has jarred loose.  I then push it back in and everything works again.  I don't think there's any coding in the game to cause the control surfaces to lock up, so I'm thinking it was probably the stick.  Good fight, though.  I usually find the TW F-14A a little more difficult to handle against modern opponents myself, but the difference isn't super significant; little slower to roll, little less acceleration.

[cougar_1979 37]

The fight may have been long, it also ended in a spectacular way. Keep them coming! The TW Cat is more crisp at command inputs, so beware of that. Aside from that..... well, sometimes it is possible to have too much power at your disposal. Hence the blackouts. I have never faced a Fulcrum in a TW Cat though. I only flew against them in NF5, and i don't have the NA jets megred in that folder. 

Edited June 21, 2015 by cougar_1979

[saisran 84]

Saisran, usually when the controls suddenly lock, or go uncommanded nose-down (typically what I find happens), it means the cord connecting my stick to my throttle has jarred loose.  I then push it back in and everything works again.  I don't think there's any coding in the game to cause the control surfaces to lock up, so I'm thinking it was probably the stick.  Good fight, though.  I usually find the TW F-14A a little more difficult to handle against modern opponents myself, but the difference isn't super significant; little slower to roll, little less acceleration.

This could mean that my Logitech is starting to give up. Man, the only thing i can found in our local shops right now is the madcatz Cyborg FLY which is twice the price of my 3dPro and looks set for Space shooters than IL-2 and SF2. That being said has anyone had experience with the Cyborg fly? is it any good?

 

 

@ Cougar -  It was a really close fight. I just can't get comfortable with this kind of "game of chicken" just as i'm not comfortable looking at the tail gun of a bomber. It's a gamble just trying to win. :)

[saisran 84]

The download section is a sea of Mirages! and i just had to DL some of them! will post DACT with them mirage soon! But now its the Tomcat.

 

It's a 1  vs 4 with a full long range loadout between the a single F-14A+ (Mod: TMF Model with TW Pit) and MiG-29C's the date was set to 1990 so whatever armament the Mig has for that year was on them as for the Tom its 4x AIM-54ECCM, 2x AIM-7F and 2x AIM-9L, guns and tanks.

 

It was a short flight to the merge. Climbing up to 10,000 ft my radar quickly got contacts inside 100m range.  I closed in cutting in the flightpath of Bandits relative to the Radar Icon. About 0Nm i adjusted my plane's postition for a more headon approach. They seem to be widely spread in a single line as the first contact has broken 50nm Radar range while the farthest is still about 60nm. 40-50nm heads on is the best firing parameter for the Phoenix at 10k ft Angles. Fired 1 to 3 and all missiles get off without incident. (Usually 1-2 goes dumb off he rail). The 4th missile lost lock due to my Changing the radar range to 50NM. Locked the farthest and fired number 4. Miraculously again all Phoenix tracked, The lead breaks to his right and number 2 is way too close. Lead isnt a threat at the moment so i went to sparrows and fired one at him. As soon as i fired the shot number 2 goes down and shorty after number 3 went as well. Since the lead fulcrum is still vectored away from my jet i designated the last MiG with my remaining sparrow but he to was done in by my Phoenix salvo. (3 out 4 is an impressive result for the AIM-54s). Just me and the lead fulcrum left. I plugged the burners and went after him. I still have my tank on as i was in economy mode on the way to target. But since im going up against the MIg-29 in what potentially is a dangerous situation i decided to drop the Tanks and plugged the burners to close in as fast as i can before he decideds to turn around and start firing all aspect missiles( I assume he has one). It turns out the lead, fulcrum was spooked badly and was intent on flying RTB. I launched the Sparrows  at about 5nm which missed and the Winders 3nm and under 2nm respectively which also missed. So it was just my guns versus all of his weapons. If he decides to break into a hard turn its going to be exciting. Unfortunately for the excitement of this report, the MiG was truly in RTB mode and didnt made an attempt to fight. A couple of burst and its total annahilation of the enemy.

 

 

I was expecting to get atmost 2 Aim-54 kills and 1 with the other complements and  1 with either the winder or the guns a highly dangerous engagement. But...

 

Just under 7 mins shorter than most of my 1 vs 1 guns only. Fight! The Mighty Tomcat with the Mighty Phoenix and the Mighty 20mm Vulcan proved to be truly Mighty! :)

Edited June 21, 2015 by saisran

[saisran 84]

So there's a ton of mirage available so decided to play with them.

 

Fight No 1 -  MirageM5CODM vs Mirage5PA3 guns only.

 

The fight began with me locating him at my 3. He was cruising low, probably scanning the horizon. I turned my  nose and dove on him. Catching the 5PA3 with a ton of speed i unloaded, let him cross, and started a climbing left turn. I wanted to turn tightly and gain back altitude at the same time. By doing so i position my self above and behind the5PA3 who is hopelessly flailing in after burner trying to build up energy. I closed the gap and got him in my sight. He started to nose up and i followed. Got a good firing solution and depressed the trigger.

 

Thinking that the 5PA3 FM was hopeless i decided to try the plane out as weel.

 

Fight No 2 - Mirage 5PA3 vs Mirage 5F

 

The fight began in the same fashion as the 1st fight. However, the 5F had managed itself better i had to chase after him from a farther distance. He started turning to the left. I followed him rapidly closong the distance. Realizing my mistake of being caught in the beginning of a scissor i extended my airbrakes. Extending the brakes allowed me to remain behind the 5F as it reversed his turn placing himself squarely on my nose.  I pressed the trigger and saw where all my rounds connected. I went to external view intime to see the 5F carcass tumbling meters above the 5PA3.

 

 

Fight No 3 - Mirage 5PA3 vs Mirage 5F

 

The first two fight was too quick to really gauge the ability of the Mirages. This time i purposely let my self be seen by dropping down to mis altitude and forcing a merge. I also allowed the 5F to gain an energy advantage early on.

 

After a couple of turn i started buiding my energy while keeping the 5F at bay in a left handed1 circle. Maintaining a wide circle at 400Kias average i clawed the other plane in slowly bu surely. Still with the one circle turn i had a couple of attempts but none of the rounds connected. The 5F doved to the ground and sacrificing my airspeed i followed him giving all i got to remain in his six. (I was counting on the depleated fuel tanks giving my a higher T/W which will allow the mirage to accelerate quickly). He extended and started turning on the right. Keeping him in sight he made another sharp break to the left, nose pointed down i a dive. My mirage was able to keep its mose on him. He went back up in a right hand turn but this time i was able to predict his flight patch and despite  having no radar lock my plane is flying straight with less than a 'G on it. Its as good a shot as any so i took it. Two quick tapp on the trigger and watched the rounds hit as soon as the radar got its lock.

 

 

The mirages are fun little planes to fly. Against similarly aged Mig-21 and other contemporaries im sure it'll do just fine. Like all deltas it's happiest flying at speeds. Though it has high alpha capability staying on a sharp AoA depleates energy really fast. Against similar plane type the best course is to keep it nice and smooth until your latched on to your prey where he can't escape.

[jeanba 1,920]

When flying a Mirage, I usually fly high speed and use those large wings and high AoA capacities to turn very tightly while slowing down quickly to avoid overshoot.

With a little experience, you can get in the right position, then shoot, then fly fast away (the Mirage accelerates very well at low angle of attack and slight descent)

Typical hit and run tactics 

[saisran 84]

Thanks for the tip Jeanba. Will have to improve on my marksmanship first. ☺

[+EricJ 4,244]

This could mean that my Logitech is starting to give up. Man, the only thing i can found in our local shops right now is the madcatz Cyborg FLY which is twice the price of my 3dPro and looks set for Space shooters than IL-2 and SF2. That being said has anyone had experience with the Cyborg fly? is it any good?

 

 

@ Cougar -  It was a really close fight. I just can't get comfortable with this kind of "game of chicken" just as i'm not comfortable looking at the tail gun of a bomber. It's a gamble just trying to win. :)

 

It may have been improved sicne 20012 but back then it was REALLY DELICATE, so it'd break just sitting there.  If they fixed that problem then the ability to break it down to two pieces is a must for a simmer on the go, and fairly nice stick, but the brittleness of that stick turned me off to it.  I could still put a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro in a duffel bag and get around with it.  Now that I have a Thrustmaster Hotas X it's a bit more but overall can still travel with it.

[saisran 84]

It may have been improved sicne 20012 but back then it was REALLY DELICATE, so it'd break just sitting there.  If they fixed that problem then the ability to break it down to two pieces is a must for a simmer on the go, and fairly nice stick, but the brittleness of that stick turned me off to it.  I could still put a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro in a duffel bag and get around with it.  Now that I have a Thrustmaster Hotas X it's a bit more but overall can still travel with it.

thanks Eric. seems like I'm gonna hunt for another 3d pro or if my current stick holdup a bitimer longer a proper hotas.

[+EricJ 4,244]

Cool.  I'd like to give that stick high marks (it is a good stick) but yeah the reliability issue was something known back then and after Egypt I ditched it completely.

[cougar_1979 37]

@Saisran, i just had the chance the watch the videos,  and man those ARE some good gunnery skills by every means!

[saisran 84]

@Saisran, i just had the chance the watch the videos,  and man those ARE some good gunnery skills by every means!

Thanks for the encouragement. Been working on it but still have a long way to go. :)

 

Being in a tropical country with high humidity and saline in the air. Gunk build ups in electronics tends to be high, so i got a contact cleaner and cleaned my 3D Pro and laptop with some swabs and microfibre cloth.. the effects were awesome!

 

F-14B vs MirageM5CODM

 

Still running the same mission template. bandits low on my 3 with my plane about 5 Miles of separation. Turn and dove towards the bandit to execute the merge. nose up and into a right hand turn. Plugging the burners to allow my plane to turn hard without bleeding too much... a bit of blacking out but i already caught the Mirage desperately trying to gain speed extend. I unload the tomcat to give chase, the mirage answered by putting himself in a nose up altitude and breaking right. My stick guided the tomcat precisely in a position to anticipate where mirage will be. A quick press on the trigger and the poor mirage pilot never had a chance as the rounds disintegrates the forward section of the mirage including the cockpit.

 

 

F-14B vs Kfir C7

 

Another new download from the mirages series prevalent in our DL section at the moment. This vid has two engagement averaging 2 mins.

 

Fight 1 -  I met the Kfir in zero throttle and went in the predetermined right turn. Dropping my Airspeed to 300Kias at the same time giving him time to reach 400+Kias which is the Kfir's best turning speed. I caught an angle which made the tomcat feel light and within these angle the tomcat was turning really well. Maintaining the speed and angle. After a couple of circles i was able to lock the kfir on radar. The Kifir responded by breaking hard into my jet. I rolled my jet in the opposite direction which i plan to string together with a vertical manouver but the Kfir pulled to hard, got too slow and too low and crashed.

 

Fight 2 -  I went into the merge and allow the Kfir to get behind the tomcat. Rigth afte the Kfir passed from right to the left of the Cat i breaked left hoping to start the engagement in a scissor but the Kfir was too far back and stayed on my six. Since he doesnt have a gun solution i continued the turn trying best to maintain a good turn rate. The time it took for the tomcat to shake the Kfir and took its six caught me by surprised. What seems like 1 or 2 revolution i was already behind the kfir  He reversed his turn and i was able to train my sight on him effortlessly. it would have been a perfect engagement if not for me trying to be a sniper and shooting at the MUCH smaller plane from half a mile away( i forgot that he was going above 400 Kias and im still under 400 Kias) after a fewof misjudged shots i was able to settle down and wait for the best shot possible. That moment didnt took long. Tomcat was surging and the Mirage slowed down. Seing a target i cannot miss. I slamed the brakes hold her steady and pressed the trigger! The rounds took the left wing of the Kfir sending it down.

 

 

Cleaning and recalibrating my hardwares made a big difference as the 3d pro felt and performed like new. previously i felt that i was moving the control surfaces in inches but now i feel like i was moving them in milimeters. This allowed me to move the control surfaces just right to allow for maximum authority without triggering too much induce drag. The way the Tomcat responded was just so wonderful!

[cougar_1979 37]

Now that's my kind of flying mate!  
Excellent control of the plane. I had no idea a strick can have so much influence!

[saisran 84]

Now that's my kind of flying mate!  

Excellent control of the plane. I had no idea a strick can have so much influence!

I didn't think it would either. But everything just felt really good after cleaning and re-calibration of the response curve.

[saisran 84]

I was supposed to wait for other people's post before doing another DACT but everyone seems to have been bitten by Real Life. And since i don't know when i'll be catching this virus i'm posting while i still can. :)

 

 

F-14D vs F-22A guns only. All weapons engagement against the raptor requires being on the deck until he runs out of missiles or you getting shot down. That's why im sticking with guns.

 

My rwr was making noises and its telling me that someone is radiating my plane from 12 o'clock while my own radar ain't picking anything up. So i stayed on course and squinted my eyes on the screen waiting to have visual. He flew past my Tomcat real close. so begin a left hand circle. A steady pull and trying to fight the blackouts i managed to get on the raptor first. Still on the left hand turn i have the raptors on my HUD but without radar lock im trying to eyeball the lead with a non-static point of reference. I sprinkled its right wing a bit but it didn't do any damage. he pulled up into the vertical slipping to a right hand turn. With blowers on full i followed. My gun sight isn't moving that much and i couldn't trust it completely. I decided to fire a couple of short burst, estimating the distance and travel i tried to pinpoint how much lead i need. My tomcat is as stable as it can be flying as smooth as butter so i knew i can get him even if i waste half of my ammo testing. We entered a steady VC and pulling extra lead i fired a rapid succession of burst. The rounds landed and shreds the raptor.

 

 

Takeaways: Nothing much. The lead computing on the D without radar lock is a bit tricky. The fixed gun-sight of the F8 is actually a lot easier as you have a fixed point of reference to compute the lead needed on your head. While the Raptor is a truly hard nut to crack when it has its complement of 120s and 9X in AI's hand it still suffers from the Big fighter anomaly of the AI. Getting behind the raptor is easy enough, yo just have to be able to do the lead computing all by yourself. You may also just try to ram your nose up its exhaust for a no miss shot. :)

[+Crusader 2,101]

More a gunnery exercise than real DACT ;D

Looks like the boresight cross is missing in the HUD

In the cockpit ini, in the GunsightFront section, theres a value for DefaultLeadRange

In the TMF F-14A I have installed, its set to 500 Meters / 1640 ft

This value is used for lead computing without radar lock

500 meters value is a bit high

305 meters / 1000 ft works better for the typical close range no lock gunnery in SF

[saisran 84]

More a gunnery exercise than real DACT ;D

Looks like the boresight cross is missing in the HUD

In the cockpit ini, in the GunsightFront section, theres a value for DefaultLeadRange

In the TMF F-14A I have installed, its set to 500 Meters / 1640 ft

This value is used for lead computing without radar lock

500 meters value is a bit high

305 meters / 1000 ft works better for the typical close range no lock gunnery in SF

 

Yeah the Raptor didn't put up much of a fight.  The TMF's D models have a round reticle instead of a cross-hair. To be honest i don't understand how 305 meters and 500 meters means in gunnery and how they translate to accuracy. care to enlighten me on this subject? Does 305 lead computing means that the sight is programed to move/drop to give lead based on an aircraft 305 meters away regardless of actual distance of the AC in front?