Airframe adjusting stress tolerances

[+Swordsman422 61]

Hey guys,

 

I'm having trouble with the MF F/A-18s. The AI is over-stressing the airframes pulling hard turns and ripping the wings off. In a campaign, a whole squadron can be decimated in a few missions through mishaps. What do I remove or modify to stop this from occurring? Thanks.

[+RAVEN 414]

You might try reducing the MaxG=7.5 to 6.5 in the Data.ini. None of my f-18's have any AI data in the Data.ini (yet).

 

Example:

// Kreelin's advanced F-4E FM

 

F-4E ARN-101

 

[AircraftData]

XX

XX

 

 

[AIData]

AileronDeltaRoll=1.2

AileronRollRate=-1.0

ElevatorDeltaPitch=1.0

ElevatorPitchRate=-0.001

ThrottleDeltaSpeed=0.05

ThrottleVelocity=-0.01

DeltaSpeedForAfterburner=50

DeltaSpeedForAirbrakes=-50

MaxPitchForAltitude=22.0

MinPitchForAltitude=-15.0

PitchForThrottle=0.001

PitchForAltitude=0.001

PitchForVerticalVelocity=-0.001

RollForHeading=15.0

RollForHeadingRate=-0.5

MinRollHeading=15.0

MaxRollForHeading=65.0

PitchForRoll=0.23

FormationSpeedForPosition=0.8

FormationSpeedForRate=0.5

 

Edit to tast.

Edited November 12, 2011 by RAVEN

[+Swordsman422 61]

Funny you should mention that. I actually came back just now to post that I raised the max g to 10 and that appears to have alleviated the problem. I have not been able to generate enough G force to break the jet again yet.

[Fubar512 1,350]

Unofficial rule of thumb: Aircraft are ideally stressed to 1.5X max sustained G-load for safety reasons.

 

Randy Cunningham reportedly once exceeded 11 Gs (instantaneous G, of course) during a dogfight, and his Phantom came away from the experience with little more than a broken flap hinge.

 

I believe it was Ken (531-Ghost), who told me of seeing any number of Phantoms that had been over-G'd, during his time. They all made it home.

 

So, in short, you can probably set the Max G-load of your models to 150% of their rated sustained Max G, without worrying that you're "arcading" your install.

[+ianh755 196]

It looks like something thats been "activated" during the Oct '11 patch as I didn't have any of these issues before so I'm guessing that TK has added the Over-G damage to Normal flight difficulty level too instead of just Hard like it was previously (AI uses Normal).

Edited November 14, 2011 by ianh755

[+ianh755 196]

This is getting silly now, just did a 10ship Intercept using EF-2000 and lost 5 fighters in 2 seconds due to AI Over-G (a/c is very susceptible to Over-G) when I gave the command to Engage Air and they all turned to engage and a further 2 later on for Over-G. I flew in Easy mode (no Over-G possible) and flew until I hit the Mach 2.06 limit for 5 mins with no problems (so it's not afterburner related).

 

Rather than editing every A/C which can Over-G easily is there anyway to alter what happens with "Normal" flight characteristics selected?

 

 

Edited November 14, 2011 by ianh755

[Viggen 643]

I've had F-16s, a Hunter, F-5F, and Venom break apart from over g. Has anyone brought this up on the TW forums yet?

 

So much for sim-lite.

[Caesar 305]

Well, you could adjust either the MaxG or the StructuralFactor. If you play Easy and only want the airframe's recommended max g, up the StructuralFactor on the parts affected by stress (isn't that the main parameter that causes the jets to break?). I personally am enjoying the fact that the AI are now breaking their jets from overstress. If my jet is damaged from excess "g", and I have to watch my stick inputs to prevent that from happening, their jets and "pilots" ought to abide by the same rules! Its only fair.

[+Dave 2,322]

:mega_shok:

[+ianh755 196]

Caesar - Over-G'ing the players A/C isn't the issue, you just watch your stick inputs like you said. I usually fly in Normal, I tried Easy above to see if it affected that Mode too. However all the AI flying certain jets are now destroying themselves as they CAN'T watch their inputs and are wiping whole Sqns's out with something that they can't control, I've even lost B-1B wingman to Over-G somehow!

Edited November 14, 2011 by ianh755

[Caesar 305]

Can you give the wings/fuselage a StructuralFactor=2.0 (or higher) and see what that does? With the EF-2000 that ought to make it a hell of a lot harder to overstress - if it works right, that should give your AI 18g to play with.

[+ianh755 196]

The EF-2000 is probably a bad A/C to test this with as the FM allows it to hit 30g!

 

 

I altered the StructuralFactor= to 2.5 and then 5.5 but it still blew up. Then I reset the StructuralFactor= back to 1.5 and altered just the MaxG= to 19g and thats cured it so far buts it's extremely unrealistic!

 

I'll have a play with the FM to try and get it hard limited to 12g max (like the MachNo can be) rather than 30g!

[Fubar512 1,350]

The EF-2000 is probably a bad A/C to test this with as the FM allows it to hit 30g!

 

 

I altered the StructuralFactor= to 2.5 and then 5.5 but it still blew up. Then I reset the StructuralFactor= back to 1.5 and altered just the MaxG= to 19g and thats cured it so far buts it's extremely unrealistic!

 

I'll have a play with the FM to try and get it hard limited to 12g max (like the MachNo can be) rather than 30g!

 

Try pulling the Xmac table values back a meter or so. It sounds as if they're way too far forward; Xmac should start 1/3 of the chord back from the leading edge at the Ymac intersection for a given panel, and progress aft to approximately the the half chord-point at Vmax.

[Fubar512 1,350]

Just experienced something interesting.....

 

I setup a dogfight between an F-4D and a MiG-21MF, both of which sported a tweaked FM (tweaked for accuracy, that is). During the fight, I managed to damage the Fishbed, by peppering its right wing with shrapnel from a sidewinder's warhead. A few minutes later, I closed to gun range. Before I could place the pipper on the target's wing root, the MiG pitched up hard in an attempt to spoil my aim. It pitched up too hard, that is, as the damaged wing panel broke off, sending the Fishbed into a death spiral

[DaniloE31 280]

I was intently reading this thread and I was wondering if raising these values:

 

[FlightControl]

...

PitchDamper=0.xxx

RollDamper=0.yyy

YawDamper=0.zzz

...

 

would actually prevent AI to pull too hard on the stick and so over-geeing the plane...

I can't try it by myself, as I have neither MF's F-18s nor F-16s in my install

[orsin 160]

The solution is simple.

 

 

You can add MaxG= xxxx parameter to individual structure components. It will override the overall settings.

 

 

Simply increasing structuralFactor will not help prevent the damage. Basically all structure in the game have their own "HP" or "blood". When you overG to 1.5 times of the defined MaxG. the structural damage starts. Your structure starts bleeding until the strength reaches 0. Then it falls off. By definining StructuralFactor you increase the "blood" but it does not stop the overG damage.

[Derk 265]

See too: http://forum.combatace.com/topic/55384-g-limit-and-damage-for-aircrafts/page__pid__408034__st__0&?do=findComment&comment=408034

[Fubar512 1,350]

Those are mostly band-aid solutions. The real fix is a proper, SF2 flight model for aircraft so-effected.

 

One (band-aid) fix that stays somewhat within the realm of acceptable realism for newer, fly-by-wire aircraft, is one that I've used to fix an F-16 model for Crusader:

 

I once created a virtual high lift device that was deployed whenever Gforces exceed 9.2, and it worked by creating just enough down force to prevent over G'ing the airframe, and just enough to allow the model to sustain that 9.2 G max-G level at a reasonable indicated airspeed and AoA.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Fubar512

[orsin 160]

What do you use to release the high lift device? Does SF2 engine support Automatic_G_Force release or similar?

[Fubar512 1,350]

Automatic_G_loading