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redpiano

OFF P4 information please.

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Since they debuted the P4 video in December I've been very interested in the game. I'm fairly new to flight sims but I've been playing Rise of Flight since last August, needless to say I've grown increasingly sick of the AI in that game, as great as the visuals and the flight models are, it's wearing on my nerves. I had hoped they would announce some plans to fix the AI with the road map blog, instead Jason only included a short sentence saying they'll continue to fix AI and other features without really going into any sort of detail. This frustrates me immensely as the AI in ROF is horrendous and Jason has said that "it's impossible to overhaul the AI".

 

Now that the short rant is over with.

 

I have questions regarding P4, some of them may be commonly asked questions and I apologize if that's the case.

 

1. How is the AI in OFF? Can they be surprised, do they have restricted vision, meaning that you can hide beneath them and that they don't react immediately when you pull in behind them?

 

2. Will P4 be distributed via download? This whole paying for a disc based mod is ridiculous to me, I understand it adds a lot of content but I'd rather pay for it and just download it immediately.

 

3. Is the career mode in OFF or will it be in P4, accessible and user friendly; does it support a wide variety of aircraft?

 

4. How are the flight models in OFF/P4, do the planes feel like they're flying and not just..."moving through the game world?" The thing I love so much about Rise of flight is it's great sense that you're in a machine with lift and weight to it, and no other sim has really accomplished that for me quite as well as ROF.

 

5. Visuals, I understand the game runs in the very old CFS3 engine so I understand it can't be top of the line. But does it at least compete with a modified IL2 or BoB2?

 

And lastly what kind of release window are we talking about? It seems to be a running joke that "two weeks" is the release date but really is there any time frame, will it be this year at least? Before June hopefully(diablo 3 comes out around then and my life will end).

 

Thank you.

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Since they debuted the P4 video in December I've been very interested in the game. I'm fairly new to flight sims but I've been playing Rise of Flight since last August, needless to say I've grown increasingly sick of the AI in that game, as great as the visuals and the flight models are, it's wearing on my nerves. I had hoped they would announce some plans to fix the AI with the road map blog, instead Jason only included a short sentence saying they'll continue to fix AI and other features without really going into any sort of detail. This frustrates me immensely as the AI in ROF is horrendous and Jason has said that "it's impossible to overhaul the AI".

 

Now that the short rant is over with.

 

I have questions regarding P4, some of them may be commonly asked questions and I apologize if that's the case.

 

1. How is the AI in OFF? Can they be surprised, do they have restricted vision, meaning that you can hide beneath them and that they don't react immediately when you pull in behind them?

 

2. Will P4 be distributed via download? This whole paying for a disc based mod is ridiculous to me, I understand it adds a lot of content but I'd rather pay for it and just download it immediately.

 

3. Is the career mode in OFF or will it be in P4, accessible and user friendly; does it support a wide variety of aircraft?

 

4. How are the flight models in OFF/P4, do the planes feel like they're flying and not just..."moving through the game world?" The thing I love so much about Rise of flight is it's great sense that you're in a machine with lift and weight to it, and no other sim has really accomplished that for me quite as well as ROF.

 

5. Visuals, I understand the game runs in the very old CFS3 engine so I understand it can't be top of the line. But does it at least compete with a modified IL2 or BoB2?

 

And lastly what kind of release window are we talking about? It seems to be a running joke that "two weeks" is the release date but really is there any time frame, will it be this year at least? Before June hopefully(diablo 3 comes out around then and my life will end).

 

Thank you.

 

actually all your questions are more or less answered in the first p4 vid.

you can watch it here: http://overflandersfields.com/info.htm

 

p3 already has one of the best AI around. really breathtaking dogfights, with mates really helping you out when in trouble. they can't look through clouds and also don't snipe around from miles but really try hard to get close on your six. and they are damn scary good doing this.

you don't have the feeling that you are the center of the world while all others are just here for your pleasure. no spawning and such things but all AI are underway to do their own missions and tasks. wether you are there or not. they don't spawn just to be there because you are there, but you can fly in any direction you want and coincidentally you will run into friends and enemies, doing their jobs, or you won't see anybody. just as in real life.

p4 is going to take the even great AI to another level, probably never seen before in any sim so far.

p3 already has a great campaign. OFF itself is all about single player campaign in the first place. p4 is also raising this to another level. actually the good single player campaign is the heart and the soul of OFF.

about visuals. you have the feeling of beeing there. you will feel very small and unimportant while you are flying over nomandsland and the villages etc. that's no lifeless teletubbie land but actually france and belgium you will see. and it really looks like france and belgium. if you've ever been to middle europe, you will recognize the landscape immediately.

please forget the CFS3 engine. it's only necessary for some core data. that's like having win7 and while booting, there is some dos window visible for two seconds. nonetheless it's win7 and not the old dos, if you understand what i'm trying to say.

please watch the vid completely. as i said, it answers already many of your questions.

 

cheers

creaghorn

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Hi, redpiano

I too myself started my WWI flying with RoF and then moved to OFF.

The environment and the immersion OFF produces is the best I've ever experienced!

Everything Creaghorn said is very true...Watch again the video to take your answers

About the FMs, I agree with you about RoF's sense of flight, and I don't think it's matched in OFF,

but it has so many things to offer that you feel sucked into a whole living and moving WWI world, RoF is lacking to represent, despite the state of the art graphics it offers...

 

:drinks:

Edited by elephant

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Ditto to both last answers.

As for a download version, it seems to open doors wide for product piracy, if I got that right.

Many other games + sims reacted to that with necessary online log-ins.

Or they give away their basic sim for free, and then sell each and every plane seperately.

OFF never did that yet, and I appreciate that way.

 

Old fashioned? Yes. Like the whole idea of re-flying WW1 air combat. :grin:

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Just watch the video Redpiano for the sense of flight.

 

Watch the scene where the aircraft is burning and falling as you fly by (at 40 seconds). The sense of flight is perfect right there! I know you probably mean as you yank the planes around so I guess we will have to wait for P4 for that but I really have faith here. The physics in ROF do shine though.

 

The video also says that the AI scan the skies so I think you can sneak up on them but the Devs should confirm this.

 

I, too, am rather let down by the career in ROF so I am completely looking forward to P4 (OFF2). To me, the graphics look even better then ROF and just check out the THOUSANDS of skins. The final straw in ROF came when I would do a line patrol and stay out an HOUR after my flight RTBed because I still had full fuel and I saw nothing. You never see anything. Ever.

 

Not going to bash but I have tried both (ROF and P3) and I am landing my crate here.

Edited by Lanzfeld

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The "physics in RoF do shine" until you watch the videos of Camels with no wings being brought to a safe landing. :grin:

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How is the AI in OFF? Can they be surprised, do they have restricted vision, meaning that you can hide beneath them and that they don't react immediately when you pull in behind them?

 

Once, while flying a SPAD XIII, I saw a lone Fokker D-VII a couple miles away. I got behind and slightly below it and stayed right there for several minutes until I'd closed to :yikes: range and he never wavered. One well-placed burst and he was toast. I keep all my settings at the hardest level and I don't achieve the kind of kill tallies that I used to in Red Baron, so I attribute the ease of that victory to the stalk. It was just like Boelcke told von Richtofen, "I fly close to my man, I aim well, I fire, and he falls down."

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Hi, redpiano

I too myself started my WWI flying with RoF and then moved to OFF.

The environment and the immersion OFF produces is the best I've ever experienced!

Everything Creaghorn said is very true...Watch again the video to take your answers

About the FMs, I agree with you about RoF's sense of flight, and I don't think it's matched in OFF,

but it has so many things to offer that you feel sucked into a whole living and moving WWI world, RoF is lacking to represent, despite the state of the art graphics it offers...

 

:drinks:

 

 

I have watched the video numerous times, the reason I ask instead of just deciding for myself from the video is I haven't actually 'played' OFF so I'm curious to know what players think of it.

 

But my main concerns are whether or not the AI can be surprised(von baur seems to have answered this) and if the flight models feel like actual airplanes, as Lanzfeld said when you yank on them do they stall and have heft to them.

 

One fairly minor thing I'm curious about is whether or not the top wing mounted lewis guns can move on their foster mounts in OFF, the SE5 is my crate of choice so it would be awesome to be able to fight two seaters this way.

 

So then OFF also has the channel mapped? And can I fly careers there and such, how about carrier landings and torpedos?

 

Is london modeled in OFF?

 

Are the missions flown at accurate altitudes i.e 12,000ft+

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To the flight models:

It ain't Crimson Skies! If you keep your nose pointed too high for too long you won't go up any more, you'll go down..badly. Turn too tightly and you'll lose control, too. You can make a flat 360* "rudder-only" turn in a Dr1 (faster with pedals than a twisty-stick), but so could Voss and his contemporaries. I'm not a real-world pilot, much less one with hours at the controls of Albatrosses, Sopwiths and Nieuports, but they handle and mishandle much the way I would expect from the things I've read. Perfect? I doubt it. But what commercial-grade flight sim of any genre is or ever was? And who would know, with these birds anyway? (before you answer that, remember that replicas are only replicas). What I do have experience in is flight sims and their players. And it's been my experience that every plane in every sim ever created is either spot-on, porked or horribly under-done, depending on the personal preferences and prejudices of whomever is speaking at the moment. Where am I headed with all this? YOU are the only one who can tell you if you'll like any given sim. I like this one.

 

The SE5's Lewis can be lowered, but not fired from that position. Perhaps some day, as it was a fairly common tactic. The future is not mine to divulge.

 

London is modelled. I was on the verge of releasing a multi-player Gotha mission to England originating from three different airfields (Mariakerke, Melle-Gontrode, and Oostaker) and each with three different targets, one of which was London. I'd worked out the navigation (in WWI terminology...i.e. "fly so many minutes at such-and-such heading) and even taken recon photos of the targets and familiarization photos of the approaches to the airfields. I was about 90-95% done when my life was interrupted last Feruary with a personal situation which made me regret having spent so much time on a game (5+ hour round trip), but you know what they say about hind-sight. Anyway, if you're interested, here's a snapshot of London:

 

TheThamesjusteastofthedoublemarina-reduced.jpg

 

Bear in mind, that's taken from an altitude of 10,00 feet. The object in the yellow box is the Tower Bridge:

TowerBridge.jpg

 

There are many buildings modelled including Parliament, the Naval College and a particularly tempting, quasi-strategic power station just past the second bend beyond the Tower Bridge. All can be destroyed. Their placement is geographically correct, as is that of the rivers, to the degree that real-world maps can be used for navigational purposes. Individual roads are not.

 

And if you're just interested in sight-seeing, here's Stonehenge:

Stonehenge-reduced.jpg

 

I'll admit, it's not exactly the way it appears in the tourist brochures, but there is a war on, you know. I imagine the groundskeeper is busy in the trenches.

 

There's a lot to offer already. P4 will be even better. And if the time spent on it and OBD's past performance record is any indication, all I can say is WOW!!!

 

(and I don't mean World of Warcraft)

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Looks good Baur.

 

My point of reference for a bad flight model in case it helps is stick and rudder planes in FSX, not to spawn an argument about that game but IMO FSX's small prop planes feel nothing like they're actually flying, where as IL2 1946 and COD, ROF and BOB2 all do a fine job in that department. I had planned on purchasing P4 regardless, what Lanzfeld mentioned about being able to just fly about and run into enemies and allies particularly has me excited.

 

One last question, are reload animations modeled for the Lewis gun?

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My guess is that OFF2 (P4) will be released sometime between this summer and the end of the year, with it being more likely sooner rather than later.

 

(The above represents my opinion ONLY and does not represent the views of any of the developers of OFF).

 

You can make a flat 360* "rudder-only" turn in a Dr1 (faster with pedals than a twisty-stick), but so could Voss and his contemporaries. I'm not a real-world pilot, much less one with hours at the controls of Albatrosses, Sopwiths and Nieuports, but they handle and mishandle much the way I would expect from the things I've read. Perfect? I doubt it. But what commercial-grade flight sim of any genre is or ever was?

The FM in OFF is very good, but as von Bauer says, it is not perfect. And, if he can teach me how to make the current Dr1 do a flat turn, I'll give him my first born child. :smile: The planes do have heft and they will stall, but probably do gain height a tad bit too easily--at least until you get above 12,000-15,000 feet. Lastly, gyroscopic precession is not currently modeled directly, but that is because of the CFS3 influence. Maybe the release after P4 will have a different engine that will allow GP to be better modeled. Finally, from what I have read (I have never played ROF), the damage model in ROF is probably slightly better than P3. But, in all other respects, OFF is superior to ROF, in my opinion. If you truly want the experience of flying a WWI campaign in a living theatre of war, there is no comparison to OFF, with the possible exception of Red Baron 3D.

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The damage model in ROF is far superior to what I've seen in videos of P3, but the P4 video said there'll be a new damage model so I'm not worried about that.

 

How big of a discount do you get if you buy P3? If it's going to be that long to release I might as well get the current release.

Edited by redpiano

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redpiano, see at the OFF website for the prices here:

 

http://overflandersfields.com/info.htm

 

"Between Heaven and Hell" = 19.99 $ = 15,16 Euro.

 

"Hat in the Ring!" Expansion = 9.99 $ = 7,57 Euro

 

 

If you want to know my gut instincts, I guess a release date for P4 late April - earliest; rather Mai.

But like HPW, I am not a team member, and can only guess.

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The discount for buying P3 is already built in now as we lowered the price recently ;) .

 

As per the website front page posted a little while back:

"We appreciate some people may be waiting for Phase 4

(which is still some time off ) but to allow those people to experience "OFF" now, rather than offer a future upgrade discount we have decided instead to lower the price of both BH&H AND HITR expansion too now - enjoy!"

 

It's very cheap to own OFF with lots of flyable aircraft included including 2 seaters.

 

 

We are poor developers so no there is no further discounts ! :)

 

1.Yes in P3 and much more so in OFF2 :)

 

2. Yes very likely proved the costs are reasonable for us, we make little as it is.

 

3. Already great in P3 but P4/OFF2 hugely improved :). Many people in the OFF team worked on some of the finest Red Baron mods and have many ideas so OFF2 will be even better.

 

4.Well we have had great comments from real pilots over the years -some who flew in biplanes too. We also feel we have a good realistic balance between craft and they fit historically with each other, with the balance of power swinging as new craft become available to fit in well with their WW1 historical place.

 

5.The scenery Winder has made is some of (if not "the") finest around even compared to many modern sims. It's massively improved over the old CFS3 type. Look at some of the pics on the website. (It's much better in OFF2 too, even improved more since the last screenshots we released :)).

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I'm thinking of getting into this Skyrim to pass the time. Found it in the "pub" here. It has been over a decade since I played ANY AD&D type game. This one looks like a huge time sink.

 

or maybe try PW campaign generator for ROF.

 

Hmmmmm....choices.

Edited by Lanzfeld

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"We appreciate some people may be waiting for Phase 4 (which is still some time off )

So there's the word...straight from the top. So it's going to be at least two weeks. Maybe a little more.

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Late April or early May? This summer? I hope. But until I hear something official (like a posting that it's been sent to whoever is going to turn it into one of those shiny discs) I'm sticking with my Air Force Rumors and Propaganda training...when it gets here, it's here.

 

Red Baron is the only sim against whose campaign I would compare OFF's. You could fly the same mission three times in a row and run into enemy aircraft at different points along the way, or not at all, in all three, that's how randon the mission generator was. It was superb. And so is OFF's. The major nod I would give RB at this point is that the debriefing went quicker. Other than that, it's too close to call. All other sims I've played had canned missions...you always met the same enemy flight at the same place every time. Unfortunately, HP-W, it doesn't look like redpiano's repetoire includes that classic. (might be time for that old-man smiley again :grin: )

 

As to the flat turn, it's not that dificult, particularly if you have rudder pedals and a force feedback stick that will tell you when you're about to lose control. Kick your rudder all the way to one direction or another and use the stick to keep the wings level and your nose on the horizon. It seems to go a bit faster to the left than the right, and it's harder to keep your wings level in that direction (sometimes requiring backing off a bit on the rudder until you've got it back under control), but faster is a relative term. After a violent initial jump of 10 to 15 degrees or a little more, it slows down to almost a snail's pace (bring a book if you're going for a full 360). IIRC, it was a tactic used more to confuse an enemy's aim, although the popular descriptions of Voss's last flight had him doing a skid-180 in a heartbeat. Don't know if that was "there-I-was" recollection of the story-tellers or an undermodelling of the aircraft. I would suspect the former, as the latter would probably over-stress the aircraft at some spot or other.

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Never played Red baron, but I'm quite looking forward to OFF. I'm going to go ahead and order P3 next week, I didn't realize the game was so far out still.

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The discount for buying P3 is already built in now as we lowered the price recently ;).

 

As per the website front page posted a little while back:

"We appreciate some people may be waiting for Phase 4

(which is still some time off ) but to allow those people to experience "OFF" now, rather than offer a future upgrade discount we have decided instead to lower the price of both BH&H AND HITR expansion too now - enjoy!"

 

It's very cheap to own OFF with lots of flyable aircraft included including 2 seaters.

 

 

We are poor developers so no there is no further discounts ! :)

 

1.Yes in P3 and much more so in OFF2 :)

 

2. Yes very likely proved the costs are reasonable for us, we make little as it is.

 

3. Already great in P3 but P4/OFF2 hugely improved :). Many people in the OFF team worked on some of the finest Red Baron mods the and have many ideas so OFF2 will be even better.

 

4.Well we have had great comments from real pilots over the years -some who flew in biplanes too. We also feel we have a good realistic balance between craft and they fit historically with each other, with the balance of power singing as new craft become available to fit in well with their WW1 historical place.

 

5.The scenery Winder has made is some of (if not "the") finest around even compared to many modern sims. It's massively improved over the old CFS3 type. Look at some of the pics on the website. (It's much better in OFF2 too, even improved more since the last screenshots we released :)).

 

I appreciate you taking the time to reply Polovski.

 

It all sounds good to me, I'm sold.

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Welcome aboard, Redpiano! I am confident you won't be disappointed.

 

Be sure to stay in contact with this forum--you won't find a better group of flight-sim fans on the planet!

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Red Baron is the only sim against whose campaign I would compare OFF's. You could fly the same mission three times in a row and run into enemy aircraft at different points along the way, or not at all, in all three, that's how randon the mission generator was. It was superb. And so is OFF's. The major nod I would give RB at this point is that the debriefing went quicker. Other than that, it's too close to call. All other sims I've played had canned missions...you always met the same enemy flight at the same place every time. Unfortunately, HP-W, it doesn't look like redpiano's repetoire includes that classic. (might be time for that old-man smiley again :grin: )

 

As to the flat turn, it's not that dificult, particularly if you have rudder pedals and a force feedback stick that will tell you when you're about to lose control. Kick your rudder all the way to one direction or another and use the stick to keep the wings level and your nose on the horizon. It seems to go a bit faster to the left than the right, and it's harder to keep your wings level in that direction (sometimes requiring backing off a bit on the rudder until you've got it back under control), but faster is a relative term. After a violent initial jump of 10 to 15 degrees or a little more, it slows down to almost a snail's pace (bring a book if you're going for a full 360). IIRC, it was a tactic used more to confuse an enemy's aim, although the popular descriptions of Voss's last flight had him doing a skid-180 in a heartbeat. Don't know if that was "there-I-was" recollection of the story-tellers or an undermodelling of the aircraft. I would suspect the former, as the latter would probably over-stress the aircraft at some spot or other.

What smiley? That is a thumbnail picture of me from 2 years ago! Now, get off my lawn! :lol:

 

Ah yes, the Dr1 flat turn. Yeah, you can flat turn for about 20 degrees, but then you hit a brick wall and the turn stops until you windmill back again and can start over. What if I told you I had solved (for the most part) that little problem?

Edited by Herr Prop-Wasche

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Try to get the DVD version then, redpiano - it makes the install even simpler.

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