Altering AI behaviour.

[+yakarov79 11,086]

I just flew a mission (testing some tweaks) My flight two F-111F on strike. AI - two F-111F on SEAD. All with GBUs. My wingman destroyed the primary target with GBU-24. Then designated radar for him. I missed with one GBU, another hit some target. While SEAD dropped GBUs one by one on single targets. They just roamed around and plinked AA. 

 

[JosefK 911]

On 2/16/2021 at 11:52 AM, Wrench said:

I've NEVER had a problem cycling through other targets. From 1stGens to now, that's always been possible.

what I have seen, that is utterly fucking stupid, is giving wingmate the "attack ***", they dump their loads immeadeatly. Not even close to the target. Usually only seen on STRIKE, oddly auntie-ship and CAS/Armed Recon seem ok

Most important thing to remember people, is between the 2012 and 2013 patches, TK fucked over a lot of the AI routines, because a bunch of whiney cunts were complaind about some of the NA missions having too smart defenses (sea and air). So he dumbed shit down for them (this was all covered on the now closed and missing 3W forums)

The game is what it is. Once you accept the given limitations, you can move on

Well said.

I swear any SW3 needs way better AI for air-to-ground.

[alexis99 124]

On 2/14/2021 at 11:48 PM, daddyairplanes said:

you know, i always wondered what happens if you change it from bomber to attack?

It works great. I used to get a flight of 8 B-1Bs when they were Bombers. Changed them to Attack and just got the 2. That was SF1 though

[alexis99 124]

On 2/16/2021 at 7:52 PM, Wrench said:

I've NEVER had a problem cycling through other targets. From 1stGens to now, that's always been possible.

what I have seen, that is utterly fucking stupid, is giving wingmate the "attack ***", they dump their loads immeadeatly. Not even close to the target. Usually only seen on STRIKE, oddly auntie-ship and CAS/Armed Recon seem ok

Most important thing to remember people, is between the 2012 and 2013 patches, TK fucked over a lot of the AI routines, because a bunch of whiney cunts were complaind about some of the NA missions having too smart defenses (sea and air). So he dumbed shit down for them (this was all covered on the now closed and missing 3W forums)

The game is what it is. Once you accept the given limitations, you can move on

So let's get this straight: On your way to the Primary, you press the target cycle keys and it cycles through the targets in the area? Mine doesn't do that. Only when I've killed the primary can I cycle other targets.

Sometimes I get the odd jump to maybe a cargo ship, and then I can't cycle back until I've passed it.

[alexis99 124]

I normally load F Mavericks for the wingman in a Superhornet flight. The Superhornet Data.ini has no entry for Maverick use. It has an entry for strafe, which is probably why my wingman likes to strafe and won't use the F Mavericks

Anyway, I decide I'd give him a try with the D model Mavericks and guess what, he actually deployed them on every target I designated for him.

Superhornet has a slight problem in that the afterburner is always on. That is, the speed text in the lower left is always red with an A/B discrete after it, even at very low throttle settings. And the afterburner sound is always there.

I'm pretty sure no-one else has ever had this problem, so there's no point in explaining the fix. But it wasn't my Thrustmaster kit, it was a duff entry in the data.ini.

[+EricJ 4,245]

51 minutes ago, alexis99 said:

I normally load F Mavericks for the wingman in a Superhornet flight. The Superhornet Data.ini has no entry for Maverick use. It has an entry for strafe, which is probably why my wingman likes to strafe and won't use the F Mavericks

Anyway, I decide I'd give him a try with the D model Mavericks and guess what, he actually deployed them on every target I designated for him.

Superhornet has a slight problem in that the afterburner is always on. That is, the speed text in the lower left is always red with an A/B discrete after it, even at very low throttle settings. And the afterburner sound is always there.

I'm pretty sure no-one else has ever had this problem, so there's no point in explaining the fix. But it wasn't my Thrustmaster kit, it was a duff entry in the data.ini.

Yeah it seems like in your case only as it flies fine with no afterburner issue. Nobody else has said anything about the setting so it's definitely you. I think E model Mavs work too, though it's been a long time in using them.

[alexis99 124]

14 hours ago, EricJ said:

Yeah it seems like in your case only as it flies fine with no afterburner issue. Nobody else has said anything about the setting so it's definitely you. I think E model Mavs work too, though it's been a long time in using them.

Yes, it's just me, but altering the data.ini file by removing an erroneous value fixed it. So I guess when I downloaded the aircraft the file got corrupted in that mysterious way that they do.

[+EricJ 4,245]

2 hours ago, alexis99 said:

Yes, it's just me, but altering the data.ini file by removing an erroneous value fixed it. So I guess when I downloaded the aircraft the file got corrupted in that mysterious way that they do.

What value did you change out of curiosity? 

[alexis99 124]

I changed MilNozzle=0.50 to 0.0, I believe. I matched it up with the standard hornet.

But it's all for nothing as the problem has returned.

I'm wondering if it's the new Virpil control box that is interfering.

I've just noticed that I have a different E model on my other computer, so I need to do a proper investigation.

I'll let you know

[+EricJ 4,245]

Thanks and good luck with your stick...

[alexis99 124]

Okay. The problem is that the box at bottom left which shows throttle percentage is always in red with the notation (AB) after it at whatever throttle setting selected. When I first enter the cockpit, the throttle shows 50% in white. Movement in either direction causes a jump to red with the (AB) notation. Afterburner sound is always on. In the exterior view afterburner is not showing ON at lower throttle settings. I tested BLKI and BLKII on three computers. The problem only occurs in the Simulator computer; the one with the controllers.

Conclusion is that the addition of the VIRPIL controller to my set-up has caused this single unique problem on this aircraft alone. No biggie, because it's a great aircraft to fly.

I have Thrustmaster A-10 throttle, F/A-18 Stick, and one MFD; CH products Quad (for Flap ,hook and gear levers); Saitek rudder; programmable pad (for commands); and I just introduced the VIRPIL control box, and that must have changed something. I checked all the assignments and everything is otherwise fine.

I have adjusted the Cockpit and Avionics in the aircraft so that I can see the MFD panels on the main screen without scrolling down.  And I can see the fpm in the HUD on the runway at correct landing speeds. It usually vanishes at former settings way before you get the AOA indexer on circle. Now you can have the fpm centred in the E bracket on the runway, with the AOA on optimum, and be on glideslope in the Right MFD. Textbook landing.

If you are interested:

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Symbol[17]=
Symbol[18]=
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Symbol[07]=HUD_G
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Symbol[22]=
Symbol[23]=HUD_WaypointRange
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Symbol[25]=HUD_AGMode
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ImageFilename=cockpit\
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[+EricJ 4,245]

I see and the obvious thing is that it only affects the Super Hornet and that's weird as it should work fine. I don't know offhand a fix (trying to see what you do fixes the problem) but at least I know there's an issue with Virpil sticks.

[alexis99 124]

It's a VIRPIL switch box. Just got buttons and switches and dials. I love buttons and switches and dials. Can't get enough of them.

Okay, I've just discovered why the Superhornet needs to land at such a high speed.

The Fuel Tank entries are in pounds and should be in Kilos. You've taken the entries from the NATOPS manual which are in pounds, and directly input them into the data file. They need to be converted to kilos. That reduces the weight of the aircraft massively. Hence it will land more slowly. It also means you'll see some fuel usage on the indicator.

Max trap weight is 44,000lb gross. Your landing speed should be 136 KCAS; AOA 8.1deg, according to NATOPS

I must reset the fuel and try it out.

[+EricJ 4,245]

Okay I thought it was already good for fuel setting (one reason they call it the Rhino is it's weight) but I brought that up earlier and it was good. I brought up the same problem with Crusader (who did most of the ini work) thinking the same thing and he assured me that it was correct.

Edited March 15, 2021 by EricJ

[alexis99 124]

Well I did try it out and it now lands around 140 kts, pipper on E bracket (where I lowered it), AOA indexer on center circle. So changing from pounds to kilos has fixed the problem.

I know about the fuel weights needing to be in kilos, because it was discussed here a very long time ago, in the SF1 section. You just need to check out a TK aircraft and see how the entries match up to real-world fuel figures. They don't match because TK uses kilos, real world uses pounds. TK uses metric values in everything, so why would he suddenly go for Imperial English in fuel? Makes no sense.

 

[alexis99 124]

 

[alexis99 124]

This was in SF1 too. But then what the hell do I know?

 

[alexis99 124]

The F-14A NATOPS manual quotes 16,200 lbs of internal fuel in the F-14A. That's fuselage and wing tanks.

The data.ini of TK's SF2 F-14 has entries showing 7348.3 UNITS of internal fuel. Again fuselage and wing.

If you convert 16,200 lbs into kilos, you get 7348.19, almost the exact figure that TK uses for his internal fuel entry.

So TK uses kilos for fuel entries

QED

[+EricJ 4,245]

Well looks like I'll see what I can do then...

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by EricJ

[alexis99 124]

Anyway back to the AI behaviour:

I had a flight of four F/A-18s loaded with Maverick Fs on a Close Air support Mission. As we’re heading to the first target, I tell both Wingman and Flight One to Rejoin. They are now in formation and the first target is counting down to AGM-65F range. As soon as the range is correct I order the Wingman to attack my target. I then snap to a second target and tell Flight One to attack my target. As I continue cruising in, I watch and see two missiles cream in and hit the assigned targets. Excellent. I turn away from the tanks and go for a second pass. I mark a target and ask my Wingman to attack it. I then tell Flight One to attack ground, which should get both pilots involved. Then I select my own target, fire the AGM-65F at the correct range and get a kill. I then check the exterior views of all aircraft. Wingman has only fired the first Maverick; Pilot 3 has only fired the first Maverick.; Pilot 4 hasn’t fired anything. So I redesignate for the Wingman and ask 3 and 4 to attack ground. I then watch their behaviour. They fly off, turn round, head for the target, swoop down, don’t fire, get real close and then swoop up and fly off to turn round and fail again. I left them there and flew back to the carrier. Hoped they’d run out of fuel and crash.
Am I lacking a patch or something?
Back in Nam, my A-7E Corsair II wingman is an enigma. He has no idea how to use Mavericks or Walleyes, but by golly he’s a whiz with Shrikes and Standard Arms. I’ve sometimes noticed him veering off on his own because he’s sniffed out some pesky radar, and it’s hell’s own job to get him to rejoin. That's the kind of Wingman I like - one with initiative.

[Wrench 9,847]

as has been stated before, one of the patches fucked over the AI routines. This is a continuing problem expecially with guided munitons.

There is no fix

[alexis99 124]

I bought the games last year. Starting with North Atlantic, Vietnam, then SF2. My understanding was that they were fully patched out of the box. So I've not sought out any extra patches.

North Atlantic is dated July 2013 on the main screen, and that's the one I fly all the others from

[Wrench 9,847]

yes, the fuck ups are included in the new games. 

July 2013 is the final version of the games

[alexis99 124]

Thanks for explaining that.

[UllyB 1,206]

On 2/11/2012 at 10:20 PM, garyscott said:

Hi all, i am curious as to whether it is possible to alter the way AI behaves when "off the leash"?

 

If i, for instance, set my B-1b wingmen off to attack a target, they slow down to pedantic speeds (i know that the real B-1b operationally rarely goes over target at less than 480kts) and go to altitudes that invite a SAM up the rear end, as basically they behave like the ideal target - slow speeds, perfect (to shoot down) altitudes, etc etc.

 

 

Is there a way to edit (god knows what file!) so that attack speeds and heights etc are more representative of real world ops,

 

Any pointers, info or guidance greatly received.

 

Gary.

In terms of A.I. behavior (wingmen and enemiy A.I.) SF2 is a step forward. To understand exactly what I am saying you should have played, first, the SF1 series (I hope you know what I am talking about, otherwise feel free to ask) and watch the A.I. behavior there. The wingman A.I. depends of a few things:

- in nations.ini file, from the flight folder , where every nation is listed, you will see this parameter:

[Nation002]
Name=USAF
DisplayName=United States Air Force
Alignment=FRIENDLY
PilotNameList=NamesUSAF.lst
RankList=RanksUSAF.lst
CallsignList=CallsignsUS.lst
Formation.Fighter=USFighter
Formation.Attack=USFighter
Formation.Bomber=USBomber
Formation.Transport=SovietBomber
Formation.Tank=USTank
Formation.MobileAD=USAD
PilotTrainingStandard=EXCELLENT
GenderRatio=0
DebriefSuccessMusic=DebriefSuccess.wav
DebriefFailMusic=DebriefFail.wav
DebriefKilledMusic=DebriefKilled.wav
SpeechFile=USAFSpeech.cat
SpeechTextFile=USAFSpeechText.cat
Medals=MedalsUSAF.ini
MedalTextFile=MedalsUSAF.str
UseFAC=TRUE

 

It can, of course, be changed to NORMAL or POOR, meaning that the .A.I. of that country, in your operation theater, will have a very good skill (Excellent), an average one (NORMAL) or a very low one (POOR). If you take a generated single player mission, into the roster are pilots you can choose from for your flight. The higher the skill, the better its behaviour during the mission. Keep in mind that the setting from nation.ini file is for the A.I., allied or enemy (exception: when you choose them from the roster in generated single player missions) campaign or generated single player missions, depending what countries are involved.

In SF1 series the wingmen A.I. was making some stupid calls. For instance if a plane was in its rear, it kept going in straight line being very easy to shot down, also in dogfighting , even with the highest skill set, they wouldn't do too much good defending themselves if followed, making poor evading maneuvers etc . However , in my opinion, in matters of attack commands, the SF1 series was better. In SF2 when I order to attack, even in a squadron of 8 planes, only No3 and No7 are complying, the rest of them are just continuing following me as if nothing happened. They react only if they are attacked or targeted on enemy radar but sometimes it is too late and you are already have tens of missile fired at you and your wingmen (Keep in mind that the higher the year you choose to fly, the higher the risk to encounter newer generation fighters which are deadly in many cases, having better missiles with superior range and precision letting you slim to no room for many mistakes). In SF1 series they were agressive without bossing them around too often. if I commanded BREAK and the enemy were in their carried missiles range, all wingmen would break, including No2, and after that they would attack on spot everything in their path without me intervening. On the other hand, the enemy A.I. in SF2 series is clever and a dangerous opponent if it has a higher skill. You will see it trying to dodge BVR missile by descending suddenly very low. Also, your wingmen if they are followed/challanged, they now make everything in their power not to be shot down, they won't fly in straight line like in SF1 series etc. There is even, if selected, in generated single player missions, an editor where you can select/set to be able to call for help in a dogfight. When you will call for help a squadron of 4-8 planes will be spawn near you and they will engage the enemy right away.

In generated single player missions you can, also, in the main menu, select the skill of the A.I. enemy (hard/normal/easy)

Coming to your example, don't expect too many skill, in dodging missiles and bullets from a bomber formation, especially if they are old planes , with inferior speed and manueverability, there is nothing you can do here but you can use a trick I learned: in your formation, if it is a generated single player mission, you add some fighter planes 2 or 4 and when you are in trouble just order them to engage air targets, meanwhile you can take care of your bombing job. Just , from time to time, take a look on the map to see if no one is following you to take you down. Good luck!

Edited March 31, 2021 by UllyB