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EricJ

SF2 Series Air To Ground Combat School

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I think with the success of the DACT reports a little more can be centered on the mud moving aspect of the series.

 

Like the DACT reports, actual techniques/evaluations of weapon systems can be done as well... it's against threat systems but there's little ground covered by the mud mover side of the house.

 

Like the DACT reports, it is not year specific but since this is A2G it'd fit in more and maybe help the novice mud mover in trying to figure out a particular weapon or system in order to understand it better.

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I AGREE, MY GOOD SIR!!!

 

...It'll be some time before I get back to the Range though :haha:

 

 

 

 

 

SidDogg

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I heartily agree... I will look into doing some sead style sorties both old school and new style...

 

Cool! :good:

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been waiting for this!

 

What do you need help with out of curiosity? You don't seem like you need it...

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What do you need help with out of curiosity? You don't seem like you need it...

 

as many peoples here , i've been waiting for a threat that shows Air To Ground operations since theres a threat show Air to Air ops

and no i didn't wanted a help good.gif

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Ohhhhh an evaluation of the defensive systems on the new beta? Never played with it on a strike mission, guess I'll have to :smile:

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Me: EA-18G Growler with 4 x AGM-88C, two tanks, ALQ-99 jammer pod

Opposition: Various

 

This is a personal training mission and weapon load that I like to just shoot at radars with. Since I have a mission builder I just like to roll off the deck and shoot at stuff that doesn't shoot at me. Essentially all it really is a tactical trainer for weeding out radars in mountains. Maybe something to try for yourself. Anyway, I roll off the deck and head north to my target area. After a minute I get the RWR display of a Skyguard AA radar and it locks me up and I turn on the jammer and get myself situated as it came as a surprise (good thing there wasn't a missile on the way...) but I let the jammer silence the radar after a few seconds and then turn into the radar and launch my first HARM, killing it. After that I fly around some more and wait for something out there to emanate as again, I have a wide variety of radars setup so type isn't important, accuracy in the shot is more important due to the restrictive terrain. A few minutes later I detect a TTR Radar and then launch it. Again it was a tight shot and I managed to hit it. Again after a few minutes of flying I get the whiff of an SA-3 radar and again take the shot and it hits. After that I get locked up by an SA-6 and lose the contact, and then lock up a Flat Face and shoot it as well. Then a Fire Can comes in closer by detection. This is where it got a bit dicey, yes I know Wild Weaseling by yourself without a reason is boring but there's something a little important here that I will go over. Then I take the shot and kill it again. 4 out of 4 shots, my best since using this mission.

 

Takeaways. The main thing that I want to do is angles are important, which when Slartibartfast goes over basic ARM (Anti-Radiation Missile) use I'll go advanced before he does. But this mission is important as you need to be cognizant of a few things: First, make sure you're aligned properly, and if it can set off your RWR, you have line-of-sight, which is more important on the SoCal terrain more than most others. But it also is good to extend as much as possible to give your HARMs some time to maneuver. They're not air-to-air missiles, they're very slow in maneuverability due to high speeds, so the best angle you can get, and distance means the missile has to work less. Of course your RWR doesn't give exact range (would be very nice) but it still works when you get closer in as it'll get closer relative to your aircraft location.

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Just in case you are having issues with the JDAM in the June 2012 patch, here's a short tutorial on getting effects:

 

1. Align yourself to the target, (screenshots 1 and 2) essentially dive at the target.

2. Release and watch it hit the target (Screenshots 3 and 4).

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Using the flightpath marker as an ad hoc gun pipper for laser designated targets

 

First you'll need:

 

- A good jet that has a high alpha (Legacy Hornet, Super Hornet, F-16 or whatever you're comfortable with)

- Targeting pod and at the minimum one laser guided weapon (to provide the mark)

 

Using this method you can at least be more "accurate" to a degree with gun runs. The procedure is simple, designate a target with the E key and that will provide your targeting diamond and use your flightpath marker as your "pipper". As the first image shows I've locked onto a target and not angling to put my flightpath marker near the diamond. What's recommended is put the flightpath marker and squeeze a short burst to get an idea where your bullets are hitting, while diving of course at the target. Sometimes a short burst afterwards provides a kill, sometimes it misses (third shot), but be aware you'll hit the ground... which is why I recommend a good fighter that pulls up nicely. Again coming around I line up again and this time let off a longer burst, remember keep the pipper below the diamond and walk your burst up until you get a kill.

 

Dangers with this tactic:

 

- Hitting the ground

- SAM/AAA around the target area. If AAA/SAMs are your targets, then good luck...

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While all the fighter pilots are busy making movies in the DACT thread, i decided to make history in here, like a good little bomber pilot.

 

Or something.

 

I recently decided that I should learn to bomb heavily defended targets properly, and given that I've barely flown the Mirage IIIO(A) DLC, it would make a fine test bed to flying an aircraft with no RWR, ECM, or decoys into a heavy SAM environment, namely Vietnam, 1972, with air defenses set to heavy to ensure that SA-2 Guidelines would be sprinkled liberally in the target area. I accepted the default loadout of a centerline drop-tank and 8 Mk-82 Slicks, 4 mounted per RPK-10 fuel tank. 2 AIM-9B Sidewinders for self defense were also included in the default loadout. My target will be fuel storage tanks at an airbase.

 

My intention is to stay as low as comfortable upon entering the target area. This will leave me vulnerable to small-caliber AA fire, but I'm more confident of flying out of their threat envelope than I am dodging missiles. Once I hit the target area, a quick check of the map shows 7 SA-2 Batteries near my planned route.

 

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On the way in, I'm fired on by some 37mm fire over a city that I should have known better than to fly over, but at low altitude I do not spend much time in it's engagement envelope. Soon afterwards I spot a flight of 4 Fishbeds fly past just a few thousand feet above my canopy.

 

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I dump the center-line drop-tank at this point, I want to get on target and the hell out of the area ASAP.

 

This is the point where why I felt I needed practice becomes clear. At low altitude I can't see the target, and I don't quite have the spatial awareness to know when i should be pulling up to begin the attack run. Just as bad, when i do make the decision to pull up, I discover that I didn't allow for enough offset to keep eyes on target out the side of the cockpit while climbing, so I end up rolling around in a manner that would have looked completely foolish from the ground just to figure out where I am. Still, I get my bearings and cut the nose down to the target and successfully get iron on target without the airbase defenses getting off a single shot in return, so it can't be all bad, can it?

 

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I'm happily flying away from the target, watching the smoke trails of SA-2s that I'm glad arn't after me. This distraction naturally cases me to fly too closely to an airbase that I notice just in time to veer away just before some 23mm cracks where my aircraft just was. It was around this time that I noticed a couple of MiG-21s were trying getting a bit close for my comfort, just as it seems I should be home free. I heartlessly sent my wingman to take the one that had pressed in close, make a quick check if Red Crown cared to send any help (she didn't), and am soon surprised as 2 takes no time at all to dispatch the offending Fishbed. A quick map check shows the second Fishbed pressing in, so I decide (based on nothing in particular) that I SHOULD be out of SA-2 range and that this brave pilot deserves a bit of help. I make a climbing turn back towards the MiG, and spot some smoke trails that I assume arn't for me since I never heard the usual SAM launch warning radio calls.

 

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Everyone knows what happened seconds later.

 

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Takeaways: if you keep it low and fast, you can certainly survive a SAM heavy environment in an aircraft not especially equipped to do so, but you have to keep your head on a swivel. Note that this is a takeaway rather than a lesson learned, I'm sure I'll find I didn't learn a damn thing. Some more practice and I'll leave myself a bit more time to line up on the target as I pull through the top of the pop-up, I left things a bit close on this flight.

 

For those who prefer it in video form (annotated, if you have annotations on)

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for low and fast with no protection from SEAD environment a ripple of retarded bombs is the way to go. personally i prefer to fly my Phantom in the late 70's with Mav's inboard and Snakeyes centerline. but if i do fly earlier than the AGM-65 era, i tend to load my wingie with rockets and direct him to the AAA while i come in at 300ft and sprinkle hot retarded death on the runway, industrial complex etc.

 

little quote from an alternate history i thought fits this thread. the story is that Billy Mitchell didn't get courtmartialled and die, rather kept low level and eventually took over a Bomb wing of B-17s in Hawaii in 1941.(eventually launches a preemptive attack on the japanese fleet Dec 6 of a certain year) teaches his guys to come in low level rather than use the Norden bombsight. one pilot objects as " it will make them bigger targets." Gen Mitchell replies " if you think of yourself as a target you should've stayed home and knitted socks for the Red Cross. the point is to get in and stuff the bombs up the enemies backside before he can make you any kind of target."

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Snakeyes are definitely my low-level choice vs. runways or when I have CCIP to use vs. smaller targets. For flying an A-4C with all of two Mk-82s, however, I find the pop-up is the only way i can reliably nail the target. I suppose with some practice I could get the aim point for low level delivery of Snakeyes down, the pop-up just seems to have the lower learning-curve for me (and quite honestly is just damn fun)

 

Big fan of leading the wingie for SEAD work, however. And nice quote, where's that from?

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What was that phrase? "Fighter pilots make movies, bomber pilots make history"

 

But in all seriousness, I've flown so many strike missions and not many people are asking questions on this topic that i leave it here for others to add their two cents in the mix.

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Now that I finally watched the video I can see where you messed up. Best thing I've done was head southwestish and let the mountains provide a shield for any SAMs, and any that come my way I can dip down and let terrain mask me. Even on a modern install Hanoi is a well... a deadly place so I tend to not fly with a wingman because I know he'll get caught up in everything and if I drag any fighters again I do it away from the city....

 

As for SA-2 guidance, even in a Mirage you can pull down quick and hit the treetops and get out of there....

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Paul Doumer Bridge Mission

Me: F/A-18F EPE with 2 x AIM-9X, 3 x AIM-120D, 1 x ATFLIR, 2 x AGM-88 HARM, 2 x GBU-24B/U LGBs, tank, gun

 

Decided to mimic aube's mission (in a way) and after a long hiatus, I got selected to strike the Paul Doumer Bridge, right in the smack dab middle of Hanoi. Ingress was at low level, then when I was feet dry I went treetop height, jammer on as well... I don't feel like dealing with SAMs. Just before i hit IP I launched a HARM and I don't think I hit anything, may have killed something.... then I had an IR system shoot a couple missiles at me. Note, when dodging something like this be cognizant of what direction they eject, and with the Super, downwards, so I pitched up and rolled ejecting a salvo... which defeated them and I continued towards the target at treetop height. About a few miles out however I popped up and dropped a GBU-24, which I thought was a bit late but... it struck the target and got a mission complete. After that it becomes a bit tricky as I have some Wild Weasels in the area, whittling down (as much as they can anyway) the multitudes of SAMs and AAA in the area. Since I have the Mission Editor I knew I'd have at least four targets, J-7s to try and intercept me, but they never showed so I bolted towards the deck, fired my remaining HARM at another target, and got a nice three-wire to end it.

 

Takeaways: Yes, there's a big disparity between technology but then again to an IR SAM gunner I was a fat target when I gained altitude to fire off the HARM shot the first time. Note that sometimes when you're even flying treetop height they'll pop you good too. As for radar threats... nil really as I was jamming the whole time and masked most of my approach, with the exception of when I was past my IP and and exfilling out of the area.

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Edited by EricJ

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What was that phrase? "Fighter pilots make movies, bomber pilots make history"

 

But in all seriousness, I've flown so many strike missions and not many people are asking questions on this topic that i leave it here for others to add their two cents in the mix.

 

 

The flight of the intruder maybe????

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