New Chinese Stealth Fighter F60

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

Anyways, don't you generally remove the wings of an aircraft when you transport it? Those models at the beginning, weren't they model/RC planes made by students for the "AVIC UAV Cup"? And that photo of the aircraft being transported looks a lot like an L-15 light attack/trainer too.

[JediMaster 451]

My guess is that's actually a mockup where the wings aren't so easily removable, perhaps for RCS testing or other fittings.

[MigBuster 2,887]

Or the local Model show

[rotarycrazy 4]

Thats the L-15 single seater attack version

[wArthog10 0]

Did they really steal the data, or did we give it to them? Don't really trust our politicians these days.

Edited July 25, 2012 by wArthog10

[+Julhelm 266]

Obama is a muslim communist so go figure.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

He wasn't even born on this planet...

[JediMaster 451]

Considering all the uproar over cyberintrusions these days in both military and contractor networks, I'm sure they stole it.

 

As for GIVING it to them, that literally doesn't make sense under any possible train of thought. It provides no advantages to the "givers" at all.

[Wraith27 6]

MADE IN CHINA ?

 

[jv44kt 235]

[MigBuster 2,887]

Any designation or information been given out?

 

Not sure how usefull this really is http://en.wikipedia....ki/Shenyang_F60

 

 

Okay maybe this is better http://chinesemilitaryreview.blogspot.de/2012/09/chinese-f-60j-21j31-fifth-generation.html

Edited September 16, 2012 by MigBuster

[JediMaster 451]

They really love those giant one-piece main gear doors, don't they?

 

Anyway, all I can say is...there's more to art class than making copies of the Mona Lisa.

[maximuswarrior 0]

An artistic impression. Looks pretty close to the real thing.

 

Edited September 17, 2012 by maximuswarrior

[Atreides 144]

Whats with the maiden flights during or close to some big U.S officials visit, the J-20 made its maiden flight during the Mr. Gates visit Jan 11, 2011 and now this prototype when Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta will be in China next week. Maiden flight during his visit perhaps ?

 

Picture Mr Hu JIntao telling Mr Panetta " The PRC denies that the aircraft was in any way influenced by data we did not steal about the F-35, it is wholly Chinese designed".

 

I like its F-22 mates with F-35 look though or vice-versa.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Atreides

[Lazarus1177 164]

The problem with all this stealth is that when the battle starts,nobody will be able to see anybody!

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

J-60? Obviously they copied that from Ta-183.

 

 

Jedi::

A stealth plane that can be seen on search but not tracked is almost as good as not seen at all. It's still immune to ADA for the most part, just have to watch for interceptors closing in using guns or IRMs.

 

Be careful, the future may surprise. The first night fighters had search radars only, long wave, to get them close for visual attack, only. That was only the start, as we know now.

 

Search is more important than track. At least if you can get close, you have IRMs or whatever may come about, maybe even laser guided missiles, or pistols like WW1 haha. Whatever.

 

Now if all you can do is track, but you can't search, well then, you can't track because you can't search for it to begin with. Or so my understanding is anyways lol.

 

Search > Track ... track can come later, like it did with night fighters.

[Atreides 144]

Sometimes all of this stealth stuff gets too much hype, people forget there's no such thing as absolute stealth.

[JediMaster 451]

No, relative stealth is all that matters. If I can see you and kill you before you can see me, I win. If I can see you and kill you after you see me but BEFORE you can kill me, I win as well.

 

In other words, with identical radar missiles the stealthy plane will get the kill because he can launch at a farther range or be more assured of a kill while the other must close to WVR. Likewise if I can blow up your SAM site from range before you can launch on me, I win as well.

 

Stealth does not prevent detection, it delays it so that the stealthy weapon gets first strike. Should the operator be a loon and miss or otherwise screw up said attack, naturally they could still get killed, possibly before striking a thing.

[fireengineer 1]

If it is a copy of the F-22 then will it have similar problems? The more I read about the 22 the more it looks like thing was over designed, too many gadgets and virgin technology that could have been added later. Just my 2p.

[JediMaster 451]

They're still trying to fund all the "add it later"s that they pushed out for the things before.

 

In short, system procurement has become so unwieldy that IMO a large amount of the budget spent is wasted on reviews, oversight, and requirements changes that instead of making things better make them worse.

 

Honestly, how far overbudget and overschedule could the F-22 have been if they'd NOT been watching it so closely? Stupid thing first flew before the fall of the USSR, and that was already after many years!

Worst part really is they can get a prototype in the air after a handful of years but to get the thing in service afterwards takes 10-15+ years?? Really? How bleeding edge can it be? The F-22 had production problems because the computers were designed to use Pentium CPUs. Not Pentium 4, not 3, not 2, ORIGINAL Pentiums. Remember those? 60 and 66 MHz versions? Then the massive redesign to 75-120 MHz using a mere 3.5 volts instead of 5? That's how long ago the stupid thing was designed.

 

We need smaller programs. Make 100 every few years of a new design, not wait 20 years and spend untold billions to find out "oops, we shoulda made that left turn at Albuquerque" and then spend MORE time and money fixing that. If there was some problem, oh well, we only have 100 of them and we can pair them up with another plane that doesn't have that problem. Then the NEXT plane you design that issue out from day 1.

Supposedly that will cost us more in logistics, but will that extra amount spent there be greater than or equal to how much the phases leading up to initial service go over? Go ahead, spend a few more billion on the supply chain if it saves us DOZENS of billions just getting them in service.

[fireengineer 1]

A Horse designed by a committee is a Camel. Reminds me of the time the guy in charge of the TSR2 program was in a meeting and like 24 people turned up, he said to them that was for too many and they would scrap the meeting until next week when he would expect 9 attendees. The next week 26 turned up. Everyone thought they were too important to miss the meeting.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Jedi, wanna have some fun? Lets do a thread on designing a super cheap visual day jet strike fighter that will overcome airfield or ship defenses with sheer numbers.

 

There's a neat article on barak shak (sp?) written by a MiG-21 dude who's flight visually dive bombed and took out a big paki airfield, over several missions.

 

Why mach 2 MiG-21? Triple the number of MiG-15 (or double the number of F-84) might do the same job.

 

Eventually the Rappers and PAKFATs will run out of their super missiles.

[JediMaster 451]

That's now called the "swarm" concept and it's being implemented with UCAVs. Or at least, they're DESIGNING UCAVs for that purpose. If they follow true to form, the R&D will cost 2x what they expected, the early models will cost 10x more, and the "low-cost production model" that is supposed to be nice and cheap will be only 4x overpriced.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Right. That's why we do it, and it will have a man in it.

 

Funny quote from Sam...

 

 

Around this time, my journalist friend Charlie Murphy interviewed him and asked what his ten top priorities were for SAC. “Well”, said LeMay, “First, there’s a follow on to the B-52 [which is still around and mercilessly bombed the Iraqi soldiers in the Kuwait desert during the recent Persian Gulf war]. Second, there’s [i don’t remember, but it had a man in it]. Third, there’s [i also don’t remember but it also had a man in it]. And tenth there’s the ICBM.” “What about four through nine?”, Charlie inquired. “I don’t know”, LeMay replied, “give me some time and I’ll think some up.”)

 

Confessions of the Father of the Neutron Bomb (PDF)~> http://www.athenalab.com/Confessions_Sam_Cohen_2006_Third_Edition.pdf

 

 

The phrase "follow on" always tickled me as it was a very popular saying among all the "defense" organs during the go-go days of weapon design and financing. Today I'm not so sure its popular because the next "follow on" of anything has to be designed and operated by the next generation -- or two. Granted I don't know about post-modern stuff so it may still be a popular phrase within the organs.

[Atreides 144]

There's a neat article on barak shak (sp?)

 

Bharat Rakshak. Although Barak Shak sounds way cooler, like a what-if Ehud Barak and Shaq O Neil inspired airforce, the airforce would be loud mouthed (both of them are) mean and not to be messed with.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Atreides