Blown away by the whole DCS World package

[+streakeagle 867]

A-10C is absolutely a blast just to take off, fly, and land.

Instant action Su-25T dogfight with A-10C gave me a quick taste of air combat... again well done.

P-51D is challenging to fly on the edge and fun to fight another P-51D.

 

I don't have time to map the controls and figure out how to fly and fight the Black Shark yet, but the feel of the flight models is very interesting.

 

Oh, and the graphics aren't too shabby either!

[SFP1Ace 33]

Nice. Are there any dynamic campaigns for single player yet?

[+Stary 2,427]

I'll install DCS World when it's finally downloaded, add A-10 to it, I must say now that they opened to 3rd party modules it looks more and more promising -already seen some hq stuff WIPs on their forums

[+Soulfreak 6,506]

I still have to download the last *.bin file.

Hopefully this evening i can test it.

Yes Stary looks very promising.

[fallenphoenix1986 603]

Watching this with great anticipation, if you are familliar with FSX payware then you may have heard of Iris... curentlythey're working on amongst others "teh big sex plane"... i've got their F-14A/B package in FSX and can't wat to see how this turns out. They have some vids on youtube of a WIP F-15E and rather oddly a BD-5J

 

I gather Ron (Razbam) is also cooking something up though I'm not entirly sure what.

 

 

Craig

[Canadair 16]

The whole problem with DCS is 1-the dynamic campaign 2-the terrain. There is a nevada coming, but Georgia is not only plain and old but is useless for some of the planes being released

[JediMaster 451]

Yes, Georgia requires some suspension of disbelief for some of those planes, but the terrain itself is not too dissimilar from parts of Europe so you can "imagine" you're actually there instead.

 

The missions have been a weak point since Flanker 1.0, but the community makes lots of SP missions and campaigns to fill your time.

 

If only they made MP missions that weren't locked to THEIR servers, and put them out on sites for DL.

[MigBuster 2,883]

[borat]It is very nice![/borat]

 

 

Switching everything on and taking off / landing the A-10C is very well done.

 

Back to F4 for now though.

[+malibu43 142]

Unfortunately, I don't have time for study sims anymore, otherwise I'd be all over it.

 

But, FC3 might interest me. I've tried FC2, and honestly found that modded SF2 looks better and can provide the same plane set (of course with slightly lesser avionics). But if FC3 brings things up to DCS A-10C visuals and is linked with BS and A-10 multiplayer, it could be pretty fun! If the multiplayer is alive enough, maybe it can over come the lack of dynamic missions and campaigns...

 

Back to SF2 for now!

Edited July 11, 2012 by malibu43

[+streakeagle 867]

I don't have time for study sims either.

I play these games with full difficulty/realism aside from permitting external views, but I don't have to use all the buttons if I don't want to:

Just like SF2, I can start in the air, ready to fight and essentially use the same buttons/controls I use when playing SF2:

Roll, pitch, yaw, throttle, weapons selection and trigger.

FC2 will soon be FC3, so you add the complexity of learning the controls of the F-15.

Having played all the DACT missions in the FC2 F-15, again not much more complex than SF2 other than a few more radar modes, most of which I don't need/use in the DACT missions.

 

Of course, since I have a Warthog HOTAS, it makes it easier for me to enjoy the A-10C study sim side.

I just tried free flight with the Ka-50 the other night.

No trouble flying it... not too much different than the ArmA helo flight models.

 

The complex part is learning all of the options hidden in the MFD menus, but since the A-10C cockpit is clickable and I can read, I have already learned quite a bit just poking around.

The rest of the cockpit knobs are well labeled, too.

So I haven't had to read the manual to do basic tasks, just looked around until I found the switch I already knew would exist.

 

I almost never play dynamic or static campaigns in any sim.

I like to spend my free time flying missions I like, not whatever some campaign decides.

Ultimately, multiplayer with no AI is where the real challenge/fun will be, but I don't really have the time to get proficient enough to compete against more dedicated online types.

 

So far, I have rotated quite a bit, flying the Su-25T and P-51D the most since they have instant action dogfight missions and I am primarily an air-to-air fanatic.

But I have spent almost as much time flying the A-10C and the FC2 F-15C in anticipation of FC3.

The Ka-50 is the low hours machine of the bunch.

I don't know nearly as much about flying helos as I do flying jets, so it will take me a lot longer to get proficient enough to function in combat, especially with a foreign aircraft with weapons and systems I know next to nothing about.

 

The map looks good enough that I don't really care where it is at, though I would prefer Vietnam and Israel/Middle East terrains for historical accuracy.

 

In many ways, I feel like I did when SFP1 was first released: amazed and excited about what might be in store for the future.

Except that nearly everything I would want is already included and functional minus a flyable F-4, MiG-21, Vietnam, and US Navy carrier ops, preferably CVAN-65 :)

 

SF2 can only be varied from arcade to sim lite.

DCS can almost be dialed down to an arcade level or dialed up into a full bore study sim if you can get through the all the setup menus.

 

Despite using full difficulty settings, I am dogfighting in the P-51D and having no trouble with engine management.

All I am doing is moving throttle and rpm levers as I have done for years in Aces High.

I have yet to burn up the engine while fighting, though I nosed over and bent my prop while landing.

 

All those little details that were missing from SF (or removed in later patches) are there, such as the option to do a ramp start (originally possible in SF via player edited missions and later disabled) and drag chutes (SFP1 originally had a key mapped for this function, but budget limitations made sure it was never implemented).

 

Landings are much better in DCS.

You can actually damage your aircraft and/or die, whereas SF2 will let you land at very steep angles and high speeds with little or no consequences.

 

If a decently modeled F-4 ever becomes available, I will have little reason to ever play SF2 again despite having enjoyed it from the Wally World release until the latest patch.

To be fair, I played Jane's USAF almost exclusively and Jane's Fighters Anthology before that purely for the ability to fly and fight in the F-4 Phantom.

My sim loyalty has generally always been to the ones that best modeled the F-4 and P-51.

SF has had an unusually long run as my primary F-4 simulator and Aces High gave me my P-51 (and F4U Corsair) fun.

Now, DCS is poised to replace both of them as my all-time favorite jet and prop flight sims.

[+malibu43 142]

Well, I just downloaded DCS World. Flew the SU25T around a bit (using the arrow keys only, though). Everything looks really nice, although I can't tell if it looks nicer than FC2 or not. Most settings up on High and it ran great on my laptop. Then I just popped into the DCS World forum over at SHQ. Holy crap! There is a lot of stuff in the works. I mean.. A LOT!

 

Streak - I'm really tempted to grab A-10C right now from Steam since it's only $16. But like I said, time is limited (or nonexistent) for learning (although I know Falcon pretty well, maybe some of that will transfer over?). And, I'm limited to a Saitek AV8R. That's one hat switch and 12 buttons. I have two questions for you:

 

1. So you're saying that A-10C is scalable enough to get either an SF2 or FC2 level of avionics difficulty?

2. Will the AV8R give me enough buttons to make it work?Otherwise, I'll just wait for FC3.

Edited July 17, 2012 by malibu43

[MigBuster 2,883]

Yes some Falcon knowledge is useful - however there are so many differences in the A-10 - I mean you would think not having a Radar would mean it was less complex - but no - there is a lot to learn from scratch if you wish and quite a bit to get used to regarding the avionics and weapons profiles.

 

The training missions are very good - and you need to run through them quite a few times definitely.

 

The seat height adjustment - might be going too far.

 

 

 

If they can come up with a good SEA terrain and the Vietnam collection (albeit lighter on switchology)then it might be one for the future.

[JediMaster 451]

FC2 =/= DCS. Not even close.

 

The A-10A in Flaming Cliffs (any version) is closer to TK's A-10 in SF2:E than it is to DCS. I can fly like Luke Skywalker in FC in the A-10, killing an entire tank column in one pass between all the weapons I have, and landing on a runway with battle damage after approaching it at 90 degrees and making a hard turn over the landing spot! Same with TW's sims. The A-10C will have none of that crap.

 

You can ease up the DCS level to about SF2's, yes. For me the one problem with DCS is the scalability is rather extreme. It's there, yes. But you basically have Falcon 4 on steroids or you have SF2. That LOMAC/Flaming Cliffs level is skipped over unfortunately, as I think I'd rather fly the A-10C that way. To date I have more kills with the gun in A-10C than all other weapons combined because even the Maverick is a PITA compared to every other sim I've used it in except Falcon 4, and there the difficulty was the graphics making ID hard.

 

As for graphical differences between FC2/Black Shark and A-10C/Black Shark 2/P-51D/CA/DCS World, they're pretty minor. The major difference is FC2/BS1 work just fine on 32 bit systems at max level, while starting with A-10C you need a 64-bit system and 4GB of RAM to run max levels.

[+malibu43 142]

Thanks JM. I'm still on the fence, but slowly falling off to the the "gonna wait for FC3" side. As much as I'd like to learn the basics of the A-10C, it's probably wishful thinking to think I'll have time to do so.

 

I think I'm going to wait for FC3. The larger plane set and simpler avionics probably better suit my simming "needs" at this point. In the meantime, I'm going to print out the SU-25T controls from FC2 and learn the ropes with the DCS World version.

[JediMaster 451]

Yes, LOTS of time to learn the A-10C unless you fly simplified, and like I said that's like SF2.

 

I don't know what other changes FC3 will have other than "FC2 for DCS World", but I hope it's something worthwhile.

[+streakeagle 867]

I just put in a few hours in the A-10C doing ramp starts, take-offs, and landings.

Challenging, fun and not too hard at all.

Now I am fairly proficient at flying, next up is mastering weapons delivery.

[+Stary 2,427]

Have DCS World with A-10C merged, can't merge FC2 for obvious reasons

 

DCS despite some flaws (and going ultra-realistic way is one of them; it's a sophisticatd but computer game after all) does soo many things right, from the flight modeling (but is it only me that finds Thirdwire better in some aspects?) through weapons delivery systems to fabulous ground units modelling. Only thing that I can't stand no longer is poor Georgia terrain -time for other scenarios where we could more plausibly put the available planes to use, maybe some kind of Belarus vs Ukraine with NATO involvement? Or Baltic States?

 

Complete lack of Polish forces is a bummer for me but I'm biased here

[MigBuster 2,883]

Ha - every sim I have does things better than other sims - there were YAP features I would want in SF2V by default (target variety for one), but SF2V has better graphics, multicore support and AI upto (Nov 2011)

 

F4 Allied Force had more lethal AI and you could be a FAC - but BMS has a 3D pit, better graphics, better avionics, environment, feeling of flight, and flight models etc.

 

I like the Balkans terrain in DCS - the moving vehicles and features are a nice touch, graphics are nice - feeling of flight is very good, training missions are brilliant.

[+streakeagle 867]

Being stuck in the LOMAC terrain is not too different from the original SFP1 being stuck in the desert. Until modders (and TK) caught up to provide Vietnam and Israel, I ignored the terrain and focused on the combat.

 

I just did some work ups in free flight to get a handle on weapons.

I can CCIP/CCRP bombs (took out a big bridge).

I can use Mavericks (took out big storage tanks at some kind of plant or storage facility).

[+Stary 2,427]

I like the quick missions in A-10C, it's allways that Shilka near the brigde dammit! Ok when I get past that it's the tanks in the fields. Bummer.

Ever been shoot down by a tank in the other simulation? Ok, I know, Tornado, but we're not that deep into archeology, are we?

[JediMaster 451]

Been shot down by tanks in my Ka-50 about 10 times too many! Never get closer than 2km to a tank! As soon as you get the laser warning, RUN.

[+streakeagle 867]

The way I am doing Mavericks is to leave the target gate at boresight with the MAV as SOI, zoom in on HUD, center the target in the gate, then use the TMS Forward Short to trigger Maverick "Track". While it is not quite as easy as SF2 (i.e. automatically cycle between targets using a single key), it isn't much harder as long as you can clearly see the target in the HUD. I am getting nearly 100% hits as long as I fire within envelope.

 

Trying to steer the cursor around with the little slew joystick is a pain in the butt. I move to far, then it tries to track when I want to slew it back.

So, the other way I have targeted successfully was using the HUD to place the SPI and verifying it with the TGP at long range before switching to Maverick and using the TMS Forward Short to track the slaved SPI. But the first way works much better for small vehicles while the HUD/TGP handoff way works for targeting larger objects like storage and buildings.

 

GBU-38 IAM are a breeze to use to drop bridges. I can get the job done with just one, but there is plenty of time to drop two and that virtually guarantees obliteration.

 

There is obviously a much steeper learning curve than SF2, but if you have the right buttons available on your HOTAS and learn the "shortcuts", it really doesn't have to be any harder than SF2 even with full difficulty/realism. The hardest part is finding/tracking targets which is the part that is completely simplified/automated in SF2. But the instant action and training missions almost make that as easy as SF2... just a matter of mission design with good waypoints to guide the beginner. It is working very well for me.

[JediMaster 451]

Actually, I'd say my main problem so far has been (compared to LOMAC/FC/Black Shark) the sheer number of controls I need to map to my stick.

 

Trying to keep DMS Forward long = hat 2 up-with-long-press and TMS Forward Short = hat 3 up-but-short-press straight in my head has proven taxing. Then to remember that it's TMS and not DMS I need to use for this function but I need to use DMS for that one is the part that gets me.

 

I suppose the main issue is that I've not had the time to devote to it yet really (but now I've got DCS World and 1.2.0 of BS2 and A-10C in, so I mean to spend more time) and it's not like FC or others where you just map S2=lock on.

 

Using the MFDs when not in combat is fine, but you can't be clicking around when fighting, so the HOTAS is where you go and I've just not got it down yet.

[+streakeagle 867]

As I have the Warthog stick... my stick mapping is exactly as it should be. It is quite a load to remember all of the combinations possible with SOI/short/long modifiers to button functions. I printed out the manual pages 86-93 to help out. But there are key functions I use all the time that are nearly 100% instinctive. However, I still end up pushing a button wanting the function of another SOI and screw things up.

 

In the instant action missions, the steerpoint automatically advances to the next waypoint as I am passing over the current one. This breaks my laser designation, too. I am having trouble figuring out how to disable the auto next waypoint and/or preventing the TGP from following the shift in waypoint. I personally prefer cycling the waypoint manually when I am using waypoints for the SPI.

[MigBuster 2,883]

 

 

There is obviously a much steeper learning curve than SF2, but if you have the right buttons available on your HOTAS and learn the "shortcuts", it really doesn't have to be any harder than SF2 even with full difficulty/realism. The hardest part is finding/tracking targets which is the part that is completely simplified/automated in SF2. But the instant action and training missions almost make that as easy as SF2... just a matter of mission design with good waypoints to guide the beginner. It is working very well for me.

 

 

It is harder with much more to learn - and you are also not taking into consideration that in DCS each jet will be different, with different radar modes that will have to be learnt for each jet with different switches to press etc - totally unlike SF2 where one very easy procedure fits all.