Wings over Korea all-in-one pak?

[Emp_Palpatine]

Big big thanks!

[KJakker]

I thought you Korea guys would like this. No Guts, No Glory by Frederick C. Blesse.

 

NGNG.pdf

[Do335]

rummaging thru the mig alley dev foras, found some low level Lods by Erikgen and fc. Also one by bobrock but texmap mismatch... will see if it matters visually.
A few of them have vis range capped at 4000 to preserve fps. hopefully this woyld help.

 

edit: Po-2 by Aleks! Releasable with some edits i think!

 

Edited May 27, 2016 by Do335

[+strahi]

My version, temporarily Ripon Mk IIF

 

 

 

 

 

[Do335]

nice one strahi!

 

what role do you set it as? Strike/CAS/Armed Recon...? been scratchin' me head on this.

[+strahi]

nice one strahi!

 

what role do you set it as? Strike/CAS/Armed Recon...? been scratchin' me head on this.

 

STRIKE only, and NIGHT only interesting, hunted by a faster aircraft because it is very slow

a little brighter, and in my opinion, the most beautiful shade

 

 

 

 

PB-1W Navy Fortress

 

 

[Do335]

Good pics there!

 

 

 

STRIKE only, and NIGHT only

okie indeed...

gonna see if i can give it a formation.ini setting that spawns singletons....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

speaking of also found an unreleased CL-119 Juneau with 2 versions by yeyeye

 

 

if there're no objections from orig modders i'll do some edits and UL.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Do335

[+strahi]

 

 

[KJakker]

Good pics there!

 

 

 

okie indeed...

gonna see if i can give it a formation.ini setting that spawns singletons....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

speaking of also found an unreleased CL-119 Juneau with 2 versions by yeyeye

 

 

if there're no objections from orig modders i'll do some edits and UL.

 

Do335, I already have an updated Atlanta data.ini so if you want to PM the ships to me I can probably get you a good working one in short order.  

[Do335]

@Kjakker or anyone else wanna know if i can inquire some of your ship knowledge, i'm doing some data rework on other ships and this instance the Clevelands.

the 3dmodeller has very expertly setup the directors for use as RadarType=FIRE_CONTROL but this director arrangement looks weird:

 

 

The director on the right looks really like the mark 37 director for the 5inch mk12 guns. that means the director on the left is for the main 6inch guns. but why is the main guns director lower than the secondary director?... or is something else going on?...

[KJakker]

Those radars are positioned wrong. Take a look at these photos for proper director arrangement.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2016 by KJakker

[Do335]

ok now i'm really puzzled.

on the wiki page of USS manchester there's clearly one with the mk37 on top.

what's going on.... i'll probably do some more google-fu tonight. anyway thanks for the nice photos!

[KJakker]

You are right about the USS Manchester, it does have the Mk 37 above the main gun director.

 

 

The link to where I got the photos from. A lot of photos of US Navy ships there.

 

http://www.navsource.org/

[jeanba]

nice one strahi!

 

what role do you set it as? Strike/CAS/Armed Recon...? been scratchin' me head on this.

For REAL MEN : Air superiority against F86, B29 high altitude intercept, secondary mission : strategic  bombing

:)

Actually, this type of planes (as well as Po-2s) had a good kill ration against UN night fighters (mostly maneuver kills, of course, possibly some desctroyed on the ground).

 

So low altitude hunt by night in the mountain to track those nuisances may be very dangerous

Edited May 31, 2016 by jeanba

[Do335]

Kjakker thnx, i've finally found a reasonable explanation - apparently there're 4(+..) configs of this so all the photos are good!
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=34416&sid=3bcc2bbcf0acc2970ea6d6f194428077#p221132


 

For REAL MEN : Air superiority against F86, B29 high altitude intercept, secondary mission : strategic  bombing

:)

mwahahaha!

[Do335]

Okie due to personal time limitation and lack of a really fitting function in campaign mode I thought I'd UL the Po2 here for anyone who wishes to use it, or anyone or, the original authors, from what i read in the mod forum Aleks and id(io)t team if they're still around that is, if you'd like to finish it and upload it properly that'd be nice. --> As usual it could really use some low rez lods, and a reference FM from First eagles would suit it well I reckon.

 

If not I'll probably tune it up later but it'll probably take some time as work's keeping me busy except a few hours on the weekend.

po2.rar

[Do335]

Battle of Chosin Reservoir/“Battle of Changjin Lake” or.. the "Ice and blood of Changjin Lake"

A decisive and extremely brutal battle in the Korean war where the People's volunteer Army ambushed the 1st Marine Division, plus 3rd and 7th Infantry Division, and parts of ROK I corps around the area of Chosin. Under most desperate conditions, the 1st Marine Division was able to make a fighting withdrawal, break out of the encirclement and retreat via the port of Hungnam while inflicting critical casualties to the enemy. The PVA 9th Army fought the battle with very little supplies, almost no winter clothing in severe cold weather and still managed to drive the UN forces south. The battle marked the complete withdraw of UN troops from North korea.

As a young man this part of history was fascinating. As soldiers both sides exhibited extraordinary qualities, for the 1st marine division they're nominally outnumbered 12 to 1 or 4 to 1 if the supporting 3rd/7th Infantry was included - the PVA strength totals to 3 corps or 12 divisions, and the marines are completely unprepared for the attack. The retreat was along a single route, where the enemy mostly had control over the roadside hilltops. For the PVA they are fighting at -30 ~ -40 Celsius degrees without thermo clothing and weapons as low as 3 man per rifle, no artillery support except mortars. Both sides conducted themselves valiantly and showed unrelenting willpower in most adverse to desperate conditions.

 

But now I get older and take a look at North korea. Millions of lives lost and for what. I feel extremely sorry for the Chinese soldiers who threw away their lives for seemingly nothing. Under overwhelming firepower, they are human meat shields. All so that Kim can set up a dictatorship at the suffering of the Nkorean civilians. There was a story piece ('bout 10 years ago now) where a PVA company was tasked to take a hill top (terrain is mostly hilly so lots of fighting around taking and defending hilltops) defended by just a US platoon, but plus 1 quad 50cal and 1 dual 40mm flak track aka infantry killers. When morning came the brass phoned: Attack again! That hill top is vital!! The company commander replied: The whole company has but 4 guys left, comrade commander!!!.....

 

I was like friggin' WTF!! And yet again: all this for what?? (And by publishing this story, the magazine was prevented issuing for a few months by the authorities, and staff were fired and changed. Tis ofc another thing...)

 

So anyway. Air power as usual played a pivotal role in the battle. 1st Marine Air Wing stationed at Yonpo (very close to the frontline so it's almost like takeoff, retract gear, drop bombs and land, rinse repeat Guadalcanal style. Well almost.) and carrier air from TF77 flew 230 sorties daily. Hand thrown smoke grenades and rifle smoke grenades were used to mark targets as close as 50 yards from friendly positions and some very effective marine FAC CAS were flown. Large quantities of supplies were dropped daily either via air drop and from the airfields at Yudam-ni and Hagaru-ri. On Nov. 28th the 21st airlift squadron stationed at Wonsan air dropped 16 tons and 10 tons of ammunition on Singhung-ri and Yudam-ni respectively, but airlift ops really ramped up in December with the entire FEAF committed, after the complete withdrawal of western front UN forces. From December 1st to 10th, 313 C-119 sorties and 37 C-47 sorties were flown with a total of 1580 tons of supplies dropped. In the end the 1st Marine, 3rd Infantry and 7th Infantry, and the ROK troops evacuated to the sea with most of their fighting strength intact. The last ship left Hungnam port at 14:36, 24th December 1950. A total of 105,000 combat troops, 98,000 Korean civilians, 350,000 tons of material and 17,500 vehicles were evacuated. But it is still a retreat with the territory of North Korea lost, so for the result of the battle, one leaves it for the historians.

[+Cliff7600]

The reason why I didn't took the job at the time :

 

 

Easy to fix with Mue's LOD viewer, for anyone who want to experiment the highly satisfying feeling of working out an underrated model.

 

EDIT :

It was actually like that at the time :

 

 

Copy/paste FM can't work without fine tuning.

 

- - - -

 

About the F-82, the 4 drop tanks load was only to make a record flight from Hawaii to New-York.

Operational use was 2 drop tanks only.

The 3D model includes the 4 tanks capacity but... (oh well... whatever   )

 

 

From my data.ini file (november 25th 2011...)

 

[LeftCentralStationFuel]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=4

StationGroupID=1

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=-0.53,1.48,-1.24

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=871.0

LengthLimit=3.61

DiamterLimit=0.71

AllowedWeaponClass=

AttachmentType=USAF

ModelNodeName=CenterLeftDropTankPylon

PylonMass=20

PylonDragArea=0.01

FuelTankName=Tank300_F82G

FuelTankNodeName=CenterLeftDropTank

MinExtentPosition=-0.882,-0.96,-1.888

MaxExtentPosition=-0.173,2.964,-1.179

 

[RightCentralStationFuel]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=5

StationGroupID=1

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition= 0.53,1.48,-1.24

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=871.0

LengthLimit=3.61

DiamterLimit=0.71

AllowedWeaponClass=

AttachmentType=USAF

ModelNodeName=CenterRightDropTankPylon

PylonMass=20

PylonDragArea=0.01

FuelTankName=Tank300_F82G

FuelTankNodeName=CenterRightDropTank

MinExtentPosition=0.882,-0.96,-1.888

MaxExtentPosition=0.173,2.964,-1.179

 

...and the F-82G_data.ini file provided in the SF2_KAW_F82_pak from the downloads section is correct.

So no need to do anything. Just keep it as it is (or paint the Betty-Jo skin to go with the 4 tanks load)

Edited August 23, 2016 by Cliff7600

[Do335]

Cliff7600: can you upload the Po2? TIA!

[+Cliff7600]

Here's the min max extent positions for the Po-2

(with a different component list)

 

Po-2 MinMaxExtent.rar

 

I don't think the FM can be done the right way because the 0,0,0 point of the model is too far from the center of gravity.

So the Xmac point cannot be on the wings. I've tried but the horizontal stabilisators can't work the way they should.

[Do335]

Cliff7600: thank you! We all in this by free time (right now i just dont have) so whatever you can is great!

[+Cliff7600]

Here's some new files for the Po-2

 

Po-2NewFiles.rar

 

The Camo and Night Bomber textures are just edited for the wheels look ok when turning.

The two cockpit textures are to make the dashboard less western'ish.

 

If you use the ini files, backup your files first and use BOTH of them (and the new cockpit textures... lol) and use them as they are.

 Don't copy/paste some parts as there's some weird "linkings" between parts (ex : the propeller efficiency goes with the tail skid, and vice versa...)

 

Be aware it is an experimental FM, as I don't like the 0,0,0 point of the model, and I wanted to keep all the Xmac points within the plane.

I use some weird ways to achieve what I wanted.

So it cannot be a good example for other FMs (the upper wings provide down force like a stabilisator and some induced lift, while the lower wings give all the normal lift...)

 

At the start, give a little push (a little !) to relieve the tail.

It's not a F-16, and remember it's more an experiment than anything else.

But the wingman should land safely (...and maybe hit the propeller in the process, that was the main issue at the end  )

 

Will you make a 4/5 hours mission to drop some 100 lbs bombs on a target ?

Edited September 2, 2016 by Cliff7600

[Do335]

Cliff: have you tried CGPosition= ?

[+Cliff7600]

According to the former data.ini files, it was :

 

CGPosition=0.00,1.10,0.00 (04/10/2010)

 

then

 

CGPosition=0.0,-0.40,0.00 (04/12/2011) ...no :^/

 

Mine is CGPosition=0.0,1.80,0.00

 

I know it has its influence, but it doesn't have much effect compare to the Xmac points, I think...

-----------------------------------------

quote :

 

CG Position... Just a quick clearification, there are two thing that relates to cg. CGPosition= data [AircraftData], and center of pressure Xac (aerodynamic center X-position) table under each of the wing sections. CGPosition= is not a flight model variable, only Xac table is.

 

Center of pressure (or aerodynamic center) position is set in Xac table for each of the wing sections, and it is measured as distance forward/backward from the cg position. This value is varied based on the Mach number, so you can have it shift back when supersonic, etc. I think this is in meters off the cg position, positive forward. This distance is used to compute pitching moment due to lift.

 

The CGPosition= data under [AircraftData] in data.ini relates the cg position relative to the pivot axis position of the 3d model, and this shouldn't directly affect the flight model. Ie, if its set at 0,-2,0, that just means the cg of the aircraft is located at 2 meters forward of zero position set in the 3d .max model.

 

The reason why the above CGPosition doesn't affect FM is becasue all coeffecients should be calculated off the cg of the aircraft. So no matter where you move the cg to relative to the model, FM, as entered, remain unaffected.

 

The only place CGPosition= affect flight is when determining moment due to force (say from gunfire, bomb release, etc). All forces acting on the aircraft produce moment, and since coordinates are entered in 3d model coord, changing CGPosition= changes the offset arm and the resulting moment.

 

Shift in cg due to stores and fuel are modeled, and they are computed as offset from the neutral cg position. So if you have all your bombs hanging behind the cg, there will be small negative delta-cg; and if they're all forward of cg, delta-cg will be positive. And this is subtracted from the Xac when computing pitching moment.

 

[...]

 

I hope this helps...

 

TK

--------------------------

 

I can't tell I've understood well why the CG doesn't affect the FM, but I just place the CG where it should be on the real plane, knowing that a real CG moves depending on how the loading is done, and how the fuel has been managed. I don't really follow TK's guidance when the plane can't take off or crash for the (1)89th time.

 

Regarding the Po-2, there's just one tank, two crew members, and it's a plane made of wood and fabric.

 

Note : I really used the Xmac points for a personal purpose, not at all as a true conversion of the real effect on the real plane.

I used it as a trick to deal with the 0,0,0 point of the model that I don't agree with.

To me the 0,0,0 point of the model should be at the length of the CG and at the heigth of the engine(s). It's not the case on real aircrafts, it's just to avoid FM issues.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Cliff7600

[Do335]

Yes indeed not much, but if ya really badly (edit: wrong meaning sry!) want the Xac to be on the wings and stabs of the 3d model I guess it's worth a try...

 

I just know one area CGpos has real effect which is takeoff/landing since, gear position is taken from the 3d model, and landing gear produce drag and on ground supporting force. For landing by the AI the position of drag produced by the landing gears results in different moment depending on where CG is, so it effects the AI touch down attitude e.g. very hard/very soft touch or completely unable to touchdown.. the AI is really dumb (scripted) in this. For takeoff, if ya move CG way back for example it can be possible to auto rotate without pitch command.

Also more complicated situation... AI lands after the nose gear is shot off:D A too forward CG can sometimes make it explode very quick and i lose a squad mate.

^Just me blabbering out loud than anything!..

Edited September 3, 2016 by Do335