Something new has been added...

[FastCargo 412]

 

 

 

FC

[Stratos 3,188]

I can't see the first pic, so probably the clue is there cause I cannot notice anything different on that A-10.

[+Stary 2,427]

hmmm I see something near the wing/fuselage, some kind of protrusion..?

 

yyy... the wings seem to look as moved back a bit? Dunno man hard to say with this resolution and angle

Edited February 18, 2015 by Stary

[+Menrva 4,200]

I can't see the first pic, so probably the clue is there cause I cannot notice anything different on that A-10.

 

Ditto that! 

[FastCargo 412]

First post is fixed.

 

Man, just can't have any fun...

 

FC

[+Stary 2,427]

ahh Meteor... then A-10 followed by the better Khan*

 

I think I might be getting this slowly

 

FC is this possibly anyhow related to that cool A-10 -styled what-if Meteor mockup with engines in the rear of fuselage I've seen floating around Facebook few days ago? That was a cool design for sure

 

*go back to your caves 1960s cavefolks, it's XXI century Star Trek and acting we're refering to here

[FastCargo 412]

ahh Meteor... then A-10 followed by the better Khan*

 

I think I might be getting this slowly

 

FC is this possibly anyhow related to that cool A-10 -styled what-if Meteor mockup with engines in the rear of fuselage I've seen floating around Facebook few days ago? That was a cool design for sure

 

*go back to your caves 1960s cavefolks, it's XXI century Star Trek and acting we're refering to here

Why, yes, yes it could be...

 

 

Now...ignore the slightly strange paint job. The mapping is changed and still needs to be fixed...I only spent a few hours on the model it so it's not complete yet.

 

But, lets have some fun in the community and answer the following questions in a reasonable 'what if' way:

 

1. When would this aircraft have come into existence?

2. Why was it made?

3. Who would have made it?

4. What would be its official designation/name?

5. And what would be its unofficial, but cooler, name?

 

I am truly looking for original ideas here...so fire up those story telling neurons! And for reference, this is the original model that I saw that gave me the inspiration:

 

 

FC

[+daddyairplanes 10,234]

Said FB link has a very good backstory created already. Towards the end of the comments, initial DEP. Wondrred if yhe guy akso went by Spinners aftrr reading it

[FastCargo 412]

Said FB link has a very good backstory created already. Towards the end of the comments, initial DEP. Wondrred if yhe guy akso went by Spinners aftrr reading it

The story in the comment section is interesting (not the faux newspaper article - too easy), but it doesn't say how the aircraft came to be. Or its background. I do like the name though!

 

FC

[+yakarov79 11,082]

2 seater version (seats side by side like F3D Skyknight) would be interesting. And internal vodoo style bombbay.

[FastCargo 412]

2 seater version (seats side by side like F3D Skyknight) would be interesting. And internal vodoo style bombbay.

No. And not the purpose of this thread.

 

FC

[+Stary 2,427]

hmm let's play here:

 

1. When would this aircraft have come into existence?

project phase around 1947/1948, testflight 1948, in service since 1950 to around 1965-1970
2. Why was it made?

As the numbers of soviet tank battalions in Eastern Germany rise to power, higher ordnance-capacity requirements cause the redesign of proven Meteor in this shape
3. Who would have made it?

Doh, Brits! Namely Gloster Aircraft Company
4. What would be its official designation/name?

"Gloster Firestreak FB.2"
5. And what would be its unofficial, but cooler, name?

"Gravedigger"

[Spinners 15,986]

Love the layout!

[Stratos 3,188]

1. When would this aircraft have come into existence?

Introduced in 1954/55. First ops over Suez, retired late 60's.

 

2. Why was it made?

To counter soviet tanks after British Army bad experience countering the T-34/85 in Korea.

 

3. Who would have made it?

Gloster as a request from the RAF.

 

4. What would be its official designation/name?

Gloster Comet.

 

5. And what would be its unofficial, but cooler, name?

Can opener.

 

Can you guys post the Facebook link you are talking about?

[FastCargo 412]

Here is the FB link:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=780801855329466&set=gm.10153103032959784&type=1&theater

FC

[Stratos 3,188]

Thanks.

[+daddyairplanes 10,234]

When?  same timeline as the Meteor + 30 days.......

 

Why:originally developed as an alternate arrangement to allow grass field operation.  Found to have somewhat better handling in event of one engine going out..

 

Who: Gloster  derrrrr.......................

 

Official Designation:  Origninally the Meteor Mk. IB,  a spectacular engine flameout on takeoff during a demo prompted Air Marshall Hill to declare it the Fireball Mk I,  esp as the aircraft managed to continue with the demo and destroy 4 captured German Panzers with accurate gun and rocket fire.

 

Unofficial name: Really?  with 4 Adens going off at once?  still Fireball  chaps......

[Skyviper 1,101]

I've thought about (a long time ago) an F-14 mixed with an F-117 or F-22

[Wilches 1,172]

FastCargo, what you,ve been smoking lately? That´s too much weird!

[+Gunrunner 314]

Skyviper, search for Julhelm's Shadowcat, it's his version of the AFX which is more or less what you want (the original SF1 thread which still has pictures : http://combatace.com/topic/27759-natf-again/).

[+Gunrunner 314]

1. When ? Study started in late 1951, early 1952. First flight 1953, entry into service 1954
2. Why was it made? Australian Meteors in Korea demonstrated that the Meteor's time as a fighter was over, still it proved a very competent CAS aircraft, wings were lengthened to increase loiter time and increase payload, engines were relocated to make them less susceptible to ground fire, provisions were made in the wing to add more guns
3. Who would have made it ? Gloster
4. What would be its official designation/name? Lance FB.1, to be thematically in sync with the contemporary Javelin
5. And what would be its unofficial, but cooler, name? The Boar, both because it spends most of its time close to the ground and because its stable, unsurprising, unimpressive flight characteristics made it a "bore" to fly

Edited February 27, 2015 by Gunrunner

[FastCargo 412]

I haven't forgotten folks...I'm making a new texture based on Kulbit80's Meteor texture for the new mapping.  Between being home and playing Homeworld Remastered...

 

From the various ideas here, I'm going to make an origin story and post it here soon.

FC

[FastCargo 412]

April 1946 - The T-54 begins low rate production.  This is one of the Soviet Union's first tanks with a 100mm gun, considerably superior to their T-34 and T-44.
 
November 1945-1946 - Bulgaria transitions to a communist government under Georgi Dimitrov and the Fatherland Front.
 
November 1946 - Romania transitions to a communist government under elections led by the Bloc of Democratic Parties.  There are suspicions of election irregularities (later confirmed post Cold War).
 
January 1947 - Poland parliamentary elections result in the Polish Worker's Party and their allies winning 80% of the vote.  The British and American governments protested the poll for its blatant violations of the Yalta and Potsdam accords.
 
March 1947 - As a result of various developments in the post WWII world, including the Greek Civil War, and deteriorating relations with the Soviet Union, President Truman announced what would become known as the Truman Doctrine.  This started with direct economic and military support to the Greek and Turkish governments.  This later was expanded with the Marshall Plan and formation of NATO.
 
February 1948 - The culmination of several developments results in the Communist Party taking over the government of Czechoslovakia.  This spurs the resumption of selective service in the US.  The crisis also causes a reevaluation of current West European military levels.  The comparisons are grim...approximately 10 combined divisions of western forces verses over 30 Soviet divisions.
 
June 1948 - After a few months of harassment of surface traffic, the Soviet Union completely cuts all land and water transportation to Berlin, resulting in the start of the Berlin Airlift.  Only about 22,000 strong Allied forces existed in Berlin, with about 1.5 million Soviet troops in the Soviet sector that surrounds Berlin at the time.

 

At the same time, the Malayan Communist Party (later the Malayan Races Liberation Army), begins a series of attacks in what became known as the Malayan Emergency.  This was a conflict characterized by jungle warfare, defoliant use, and irregular troops.
 
 
All of these developments highlighted the need for a aircraft that could offset the numbers of tanks and troops between the east and west.  What was needed was a long duration, close support aircraft that could stay on station for a long time before needing refueling, but be able to deliver devastating firepower in point attacks.
 
The Chief Of The Air Staff, Sir Arthur Tedder, recommended to the Chief of the Imperial General Staff, Sir Bernard Montgomery to bring in Sir Arthur Coningham from retirement to outline requirements for such an aircraft.  Though Montgomery had clashed with both men on occasion during the war and afterward, he also recognized the value in close joint operations.
 
Sir Arthur Coningham, having recently been a passenger on an airliner that had survived a catastrophic engine failure soon after takeoff from Lisbon, immediately settled on a requirement that the aircraft had to have multiple engines for redundancy.  In addition, identification and precision of targeting was essential.  This encouraged the idea that the aircraft needed to be slower, rather than faster, to increase time for targeting and weapons employment.
 
Because of this lack of speed, and a low altitude requirement to aid in identification, the aircraft had to be designed to increase its survivability.  Armor was encouraged, along with redundant flight controls for elevator and rudder.  Engines were recommended to be up high on the fuselage, but close together to minimize asymmetry in case of a failure of one.  This precluded using prop driven engines due to the space needed for the prop disc.
 
Proposals were sent out to several companies, with a couple of requirements to include minimum time and cost of development to meet the requirements.  Gloster was already in the process of upgrading the Meteor to the F8 standard, and was aided by the 'modular' construction of the aircraft, allowing various changes to the design without having to totally 'clean sheet' the aircraft.

 
The resulting proposal was radical, with the engines moved from the wings to the upper rear fuselage.  The tail was split into two smaller vertical surfaces, and the surface of the horizontal tail was increased to move them out of the way of the engine exhaust.  This had the notable side benefit of masking the intakes and exhaust from the ground, decreasing their vulnerability. The engine nacelles were decreased in length since the wing structure no longer had to be incorporated into them.  The fuselage was shortened to reduce the aft CG tendency.  The wings added a plug in place of where the engines used to be, and lengthed to incorporate wing fuel tanks.  This resulted in increased lift and additional hardpoints.  Additional flaps were incorporated to increase short field performance.  The loss in top speed performance was considered acceptable because of the focus on tactical air support.
 
An outgrowth of the centerline external fuel tank resulted in the concept of a multi-mission conformal shape.  Along with the external fuel tank shared with the Meteor F8, a new pod was designed.  Gloster, working closely with Martin-Baker who were license building the Hispano 20mm, eventually adapted the Hispano cannon that was in the nose of the Meteor F8 into a pod the same size and shape as the external fuel tank on the Meteor F8.  This allowed the new aircraft to put eight 20mm cannons on the centerline of the aircraft...a huge amount of firepower in a small aircraft with no 'harmonizing' of the guns needed.
 
Overall, this resulted in an aircraft that was significantly heavier and slower than its Meteor counterpart.  Even with the addition of more flaps, the takeoff and landing rolls for typical combat were longer than the Meteor.  But these were considered acceptable tradeoffs for the projected tripling of bombload, doubling of rockets and gun firepower that could be carried for an increased duration time.  Also, the fuel had to be burned out of the tail first to make sure the CG wasn't put out of the aft limit after weapons were dropped and fuel was burned out of the wing tanks.
 
One drawback of the new design was increased difficulty in bailout due to the engine location.  Various solutions were proposed, but until the ejection seat was developed, manual bailout was considered very high risk.
 
The first Meteor F8 flight was serial VT150 on 12 Oct 1948.  The first delivery to active service was 2 Aug 1949.
 
The new aircraft derivative was far enough from the Meteor F8 design to warrant a new name - The Fireball GF8.  The Fireball's first flight, serial VW314, was 12 May 1949, with its first delivery on 4 Feb 1950.

 

Current textures are based on Kulbit80's Meteor textures, with additional work by dtmdragon.  Still a WIP.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FC

[Eole 1,032]

Awesome !

 

A good start for a what if campaign ?

[Spinners 15,986]

Awesome... and just so cool.

 

Just a point about the designation. By changing the name to Fireball the numbering sequence would restart - so it would be Fireball FB.1 or Fireball FGA.1 although FGA (Fighter, Ground Attack)  type designations were still a few years away.