Interesting fact about the Greek Bailout

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Here's a little fact I learned from a Greek person yesterday..that isn't in the public domain 
Did you know, that the Greek 'bailout' has a clause?...that clause is: If Greece fails to pay off the debt..the EU (namely Germany) will take ownership of several Greek Islands???
(whether they'll use the fallschirmjäger on this occasion, is open to question) 

[Boresight 51]

Here's a little fact I learned from a Greek person yesterday..that isn't in the public domain 

Did you know, that the Greek 'bailout' has a clause?...that clause is: If Greece fails to pay off the debt..the EU (namely Germany) will take ownership of several Greek Islands???

(whether they'll use the fallschirmjäger on this occasion, is open to question) 

 

 

Hello,

 

Those are the "little perks" of negotiations in today's magnificent Europe.

To be honest about the Greek crisis (Portuguese; Irish and Spanish as well), I believe there are guilty on both sides of the barricade.

 

First the "poor" country (my own one as well), which relies for TOO much time on European funds, and waste them on personal wealth of big corporations (banks, oil, transport, construction, comm's, etc.), instead of investing in developing the country economy.

And in Portugal, our prime minister is winning all the prizes of miss. Merkel lap dog... at the expense of the honest tax-payers (not his fellow corrupt businessman).

 

Second, the rich creditor countries, know long ago, that the poor ones will NEVER be able to pay the obscene amounts of money, (and interests) lend to them - it's plain unrealistic to everyone who looks at a country GDP and his external debt.

Everyone knows that keeping a poor country eternally in debt is the best way to the creditors start taking all of its neighbors country best economical assets and wealth.

So Germany as all the dishonest interest in keep lending money to the poor ones - forever and with high interest, and in that way keeping them poor.

[Atreides 144]

Two words to Greece,  Pay Debts !!!!

[+daddyairplanes 10,258]

At point more realistic advice might be learn German........

[Boresight 51]

Two words to Greece,  Pay Debts !!!!

 

Contracted debts should always be paid, I agree.

 

The question is: Which social groups exactly, in Greece, should pay the biggest part of the debt ?

 

Surely not the poor ones which are forced to pay taxes and never benefited from the EU monetary funds.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[+Menrva 4,202]

Boresight, I see you haven't included Italy (my country) in the list of those in crisis.  The situation here isn't all that good too.

 

I'm a little shocked by what's happening in the EU in general, a break off of the European Union is not all that far IMHO

Edited August 14, 2015 by blaze95

[+Gepard 11,324]

Did you know, that the Greek 'bailout' has a clause?...that clause is: If Greece fails to pay off the debt..the EU (namely Germany) will take ownership of several Greek Islands???

 

 

Cool Creta will be owers!

 

Good joke.

 

Really seldom so LOL

Edited August 14, 2015 by Gepard

[Snailman 517]

I mentioned this long ago. But I have some thoughts to add...

 

In today's world speaking about countries and nations are without meaning. A country, it's borders and it's government (regardless of what type and alignment) are just formal things. The world's power structure has changed, if not now, but at least in the last 20 (some say 100) years. Fact is, the power is not in the hands of governments or nations, but transnational (or supernational rather!) individuals or groups of individuals (usually calling themselves an organization or company). As an interface layer between "them" and "us" are those curtains (country borders) and masks (politicians) who perform like the chair board of any company - they control, but serving the real owners, the anonymous shareholders.

 

Therefore, bashing countries (the USA did it, Germany wants this or that..., Russia does things...), nationalities (Greeks, Spanish, Italian, etc are lazy... they don't work that's why they in crisis - I heard such words!!), or religions (tools of control) - it's all futile. In such I was guilty in the past myself, but many things happened since. Those people pulling the strings have no nationality or religion nor homeland - it does not matter where they live, what language they speak or what color of their skins - they want to rule, their religion is money, and they act as gods themselves.

 

Ownership of the goods. Many of you are already of aware that the poor is made to pay while they own nothing of the "company" of their "national country". As in the USA, it's the same everywhere else, less than 1% (!!!) of the people owns over 80% of the "national" economy, shares, banks, resources - even people's lives, history and culture - thoughts and souls of their children (healthcare, education, mass media). Speaking of, when Country X  has economic boom - that means that certain 1% (owning 80% of the economy) have good days. The same time, people still amaze, why there are thousands of homeless, why unemployment (real, not official) is skyrocketing, why pensions and healthcare cannot be paid... etc etc. For "them" economic boom, for "us" crisis...  In short, a "country company's" situation does not reflect the the "employers" life standard. A profiting company can have struggling employers... no doubt.

 

And here comes the catch. When the company begins to decline (not necessary doing bad, but not meeting the profit expectations of the "shareholders") OR - take a seat and get a hold on - changes ownership (yes, they call it political takeover, or democratization, or liberation of slaves, or building of socialism - underline your choice) then problems arise. As in the business life, ownership change is not always peaceful. More likely, never. Any dirty trick and financial maneuver is possibly made when taking over a company - all applies to "country companies" as well. And yes, you guessed right, the employers drink out the bitter cup. Profits, interests are being stomped out of the guts of the populace - they way they cut salaries and fire employers in a company which would work nicely with less profit for the owner and with a better payment employers. But this world does not work like that. So the 1% will put their hands on more - and "nation" sells schools, healthcare, pensions, railroads, prisons, churches, ancient ruins  - the way a desperate father would sell his kidney to feed his kids...

 

Bailing an entire country and nation -  this is how the slavery of the new millennia works. No chains - but unrepayable debts. And since they own the school and hospital alike - much more than slavery!

 

I'm very sorry to quote an arch-communist (Engels) but in this meaning he was right. "The future wars will be fought between classes of the society"  it's very similar to what I used to say. There is no left or right, there's only up or down. In any system, even in a bolshevik "communist" government  "them" and "us" are present.

 

On a final word, just think it over, why so much wars, conflicts and crisises are being incited between "countries" and "nations" and "religions" - keeping the conflict in the horizontal plane, so nobody touches the stockholders!!

 

Divide et impera. - Divide and rule.

At point more realistic advice might be learn German........

 

We have a joke of such,  "The optimist learns english, the pessimist learns russian - the realist practices shooting"

Edited August 14, 2015 by Snailman

[Do335 382]

...

You're talking about inequality. But I believe there'll always be classes, even in your Stalin/Soviet era there's the large group of ruling oligarchs the system created, There isn't an existing social structure that can eliminate inequality so far.

But that is fine, as long as there is upward mobility, as in creativity and hard work warranting success for the average guy is believed to be achievable. But when chances of moving up the social ladder becomes minimal, unrest within the working/under class would then follow. Fundamentally... it is a problem of hope. IMHO.

[Snailman 517]

You're talking about inequality. But I believe there'll always be classes, even in your Stalin/Soviet era there's the large group of ruling oligarchs the system created, There isn't an existing social structure that can eliminate inequality so far.

But that is fine, as long as there is upward mobility, as in creativity and hard work warranting success for the average guy is believed to be achievable. But when chances of moving up the social ladder becomes minimal, unrest within the working/under class would then follow. Fundamentally... it is a problem of hope. IMHO.

 

Yes inequality, which will be ever present, but the problem of it's extent. And it is getting worse and worse, middle class sliding down, everywhere even in (seemingly) wealthy societies. Inequality is growing so much that some - otherwise fiction - dark future type movies are coming to a reality. Like the one, in which your life-time is became the currency (can't recall it's title tho) the rich thus being immortal.

Some people even mention a "new race" type conspiracy, which scrapes the surface of eugenetics and superior/chosen race theories, where the selected few will prevail and the masses must sink into a brainless worker-zombi style slavery

 

Hope, very good thought. The more people feel hopeless, and that they have nothing to lose, the more likely they revolt. That's the second task a government is obliged to do (Taxation being the first), to keep the populace just under the revolt level.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

"If you're born poor, it's not your mistake. But if you die poor, it is your mistake"

 

Seen way too many people go from nothing to something via one way or another. At least here in the USA if you can't get your s**t together, it's pretty much too bad for you.  You might not be a millionaire when all is said and done, but at least you sure as hell won't be at the bottom of the barrel.

[+ordway 23]

Here's a little fact I learned from a Greek person yesterday..that isn't in the public domain 

Did you know, that the Greek 'bailout' has a clause?...that clause is: If Greece fails to pay off the debt..the EU (namely Germany) will take ownership of several Greek Islands???

(whether they'll use the fallschirmjäger on this occasion, is open to question) 

Don't think this is new.  Read about the Franco/Prussian War of 1870.  It was a war to put France into debt to Germany…and it succeeded. Bismark faked documents to get France to declare war on Germany.  Then Germany could invade France, take over French territory and force France into paying war reparations to Germany (debt)  for a war initiated by Germany!

[Do335 382]

Yes inequality, which will be ever present, but the problem of it's extent. And it is getting worse and worse, middle class sliding down, everywhere even in (seemingly) wealthy societies. Inequality is growing so much that some - otherwise fiction - dark future type movies are coming to a reality. Like the one, in which your life-time is became the currency (can't recall it's title tho) the rich thus being immortal.

Could it be "In Time" ;)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1637688/

 

 

 

I think the problem has only gotten worse after the 2008 financial crisis since which the democratic world is in decline (Greek debt like being one of the secondary effects). And it is inevitably more profound in (formerly) authoritarian/totalitarian societies. My personal take on this, or the question that really matters: What should I do. That is one worth pondering, and I reckon each will have his own personal answer. I believe in what Gandhi said: "whatever you do will be insignificant, but it's important that you do it".

Edited August 14, 2015 by Do335

[Boresight 51]

I mentioned this long ago. But I have some thoughts to add...

 

In today's world speaking about countries and nations are without meaning. A country, it's borders and it's government (regardless of what type and alignment) are just formal things. The world's power structure has changed, if not now, but at least in the last 20 (some say 100) years. Fact is, the power is not in the hands of governments or nations, but transnational (or supernational rather!) individuals or groups of individuals (usually calling themselves an organization or company). As an interface layer between "them" and "us" are those curtains (country borders) and masks (politicians) who perform like the chair board of any company - they control, but serving the real owners, the anonymous shareholders.

 

Therefore, bashing countries (the USA did it, Germany wants this or that..., Russia does things...), nationalities (Greeks, Spanish, Italian, etc are lazy... they don't work that's why they in crisis - I heard such words!!), or religions (tools of control) - it's all futile. In such I was guilty in the past myself, but many things happened since. Those people pulling the strings have no nationality or religion nor homeland - it does not matter where they live, what language they speak or what color of their skins - they want to rule, their religion is money, and they act as gods themselves.

 

Ownership of the goods. Many of you are already of aware that the poor is made to pay while they own nothing of the "company" of their "national country". As in the USA, it's the same everywhere else, less than 1% (!!!) of the people owns over 80% of the "national" economy, shares, banks, resources - even people's lives, history and culture - thoughts and souls of their children (healthcare, education, mass media). Speaking of, when Country X  has economic boom - that means that certain 1% (owning 80% of the economy) have good days. The same time, people still amaze, why there are thousands of homeless, why unemployment (real, not official) is skyrocketing, why pensions and healthcare cannot be paid... etc etc. For "them" economic boom, for "us" crisis...  In short, a "country company's" situation does not reflect the the "employers" life standard. A profiting company can have struggling employers... no doubt.

 

And here comes the catch. When the company begins to decline (not necessary doing bad, but not meeting the profit expectations of the "shareholders") OR - take a seat and get a hold on - changes ownership (yes, they call it political takeover, or democratization, or liberation of slaves, or building of socialism - underline your choice) then problems arise. As in the business life, ownership change is not always peaceful. More likely, never. Any dirty trick and financial maneuver is possibly made when taking over a company - all applies to "country companies" as well. And yes, you guessed right, the employers drink out the bitter cup. Profits, interests are being stomped out of the guts of the populace - they way they cut salaries and fire employers in a company which would work nicely with less profit for the owner and with a better payment employers. But this world does not work like that. So the 1% will put their hands on more - and "nation" sells schools, healthcare, pensions, railroads, prisons, churches, ancient ruins  - the way a desperate father would sell his kidney to feed his kids...

 

Bailing an entire country and nation -  this is how the slavery of the new millennia works. No chains - but unrepayable debts. And since they own the school and hospital alike - much more than slavery!

 

I'm very sorry to quote an arch-communist (Engels) but in this meaning he was right. "The future wars will be fought between classes of the society"  it's very similar to what I used to say. There is no left or right, there's only up or down. In any system, even in a bolshevik "communist" government  "them" and "us" are present.

 

On a final word, just think it over, why so much wars, conflicts and crisises are being incited between "countries" and "nations" and "religions" - keeping the conflict in the horizontal plane, so nobody touches the stockholders!!

 

Divide et impera. - Divide and rule.

 

We have a joke of such,  "The optimist learns english, the pessimist learns russian - the realist practices shooting"

 

 

This post pretty much says everything.

[+Menrva 4,202]

Could it be "In Time" ;)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1637688/

 

 

 

I think the problem has only gotten worse after the 2008 financial crisis since which the democratic world is in decline (Greek debt like being one of the secondary effects). And it is inevitably more profound in (formerly) authoritarian/totalitarian societies. My personal take on this, or the question that really matters: What should I do. That is one worth pondering, and I reckon each will have his own personal answer. I believe in what Gandhi said: "whatever you do will be insignificant, but it's important that you do it".

 

I once saw "In Time", that movie storyline was kinda strange at first, but then I realized it's pretty much what might happen in the future, excluding some details.  Moreover, the clothes and cars used in that movie remind me of the 1970s or 80s, I might be wrong though, but it could be a connection to the globalisation and new consumer era that started in those years.

 

Gandhi's quote is one of my favourites, let's add to it that although insignificant, the actions we decide to pursue should also inspire others.

 

Talking about the decline of democracy, here in Italy we are currently being governed by governments which weren't elected by us citizens (even though shall I say Italians always elected bad ones in the past), but chosen (according to the requests of the EU) by our previous President of the Republic, who was elected by an elite group of corrupt politicians; all of this is happening because people lost hope and faith in the institutions, and so even less citizens now go to vote in case of elections, exactly doing what the 'companies' or 'multinational powers that be' want, as Snailman previously added.  

 

Hence why I think that what you guys have been talking about is very important; even if insignificant, our actions and decisions are all that matters, we must be that 0,000...1% of the Earth's population who fights (I'm not talking about violence) for the ideals it believes in, not the 99% (I'm exaggerating, I know) that carelessly amuses itself to death (I'm quoting both a rock concept album and a book) and pursues the hatred between nationalities.

 

On top of that, I find it horrible that the EU has pretty much left us, Southern countries, alone dealing with thousands of immigrants coming from the Mediterranean Sea.  More than 2,500 people died since that start of 2015, but in my country many compatriots and politicians are suggesting that we shoot these immigrants on sight, failing to realize they are just poor guys escaping from war zones we once created and left in the past (Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Eritrea, etc.).  This economic crisis all in all is reminding me of the 1900s somehow, a conflict might be even closer than we think.  Pretty ironic, the companies and multinationals don't care about nationalities, but they care about money, the poor people instead care about nationalities and religion when politicians give them their scapegoat.

 

Thanks for this conversation guys, it's good to know that someone else has noticed how bad things are going, here in Europe.  However, let's maintain our hope while we can.

Edited August 14, 2015 by blaze95

[Snailman 517]

These things are worldwide. As I said countries are only formalities, the strings of power (which equals to money) are above governments and borders...  there is no such as democratic or totalitarian countries. No left or right. The most horrible inequalities are present in "democratic" countries.

 

Money is power, and who owns enough, can do everything. Democracy is about having equal rights, word, thoughts. No one should be allowed to have too much power over the others. Communism is about having equal wealth. Of course it is not possible. None of them is, both being utopias. Communism was distorted and realized into Bolshevik-Dictatorship (aka. Stalinism). Democracy was distorted into Financial-Autocracy (aka. Corporatocracy). Other third-way ideas were also distorted, or pushed down by the latter two.
You get the meaning.

 

 

Just a side note, not related to the original topic, just connected. What I think is currently going on, is an attempt to restore the Cold War environment around the world. Of course, in reality the danger of a war is minimal. I have no proper english to explain correctly why I think so... Basically, as part of the binary, or Bipolar-world* political concept I mentioned earlier. Since the same class with the "1% mentality" is pullling the strings everywhere on the world they are trying to accomplish balance which they can rule like before.

 

 

A more economic and financial explanation, which is high/brow for me, but it says the thing:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-02/its-1-world-who-owns-what-223-trillion-global-wealth

 

Just in case someone haven't seen it yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QPKKQnijnsM

 

 

 

 

* When there are only two sides - political parties, military alliances, nationalities, election choices, wherever the people confront each other - the outcome is controllable and predictable at the same time the participants are adequately occupied with the other side thus distracted from the holders of real power. Black and white. Left or right. Blue or Red. No third choice allowed.

Example 1, you have two presidetal candidates. One you have chosen to be your puppet ruler. The other one might be very well your man as well. Maintaining the feeling of a strong fight in front of the public, with a close result in public support, the people feel they have a choice. If your chosen one wins, no problem. If the stunt double is about to win, you can air some dirty truth or order him make a mistake say a bad word, so the undecisive people will chose the your "already elected" candidate. People have the choice between head or stomach. The cart will be going into the same direction.

 

Example 2, minor powers, small countries are forced to choose between West or East. Rightish or leftish. They political systems can be "democratic" or "totalitarian". Never in the modern history a third way was allowed. A middle way,  "aurea mediocritas". Or for example a Central/Southern European (non aligned, neutral) Alliance excluding west and east alike. There is no Small Countries Mutual Defence Pact, nor a  Free Nations League allowed, which could dissolve the completely corrupt, exceptionist and useless United Nations. Greater powers and mass media (all owned by the elite) would immediately start sanctioning, and smear campaigns.

[Snailman 517]

This post pretty much says everything.

 

This video tells everything))))  Just to bring in a little fun into the sorrow topic

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mII9NZ8MMVM

[Do335 382]

These things are worldwide. As I said countries are only formalities, the strings of power (which equals to money) are above governments and borders...  there is no such as democratic or totalitarian countries. No left or right. The most horrible inequalities are present in "democratic" countries.

 

Money is power, and who owns enough, can do everything. Democracy is about having equal rights, word, thoughts. No one should be allowed to have too much power over the others. Communism is about having equal wealth. Of course it is not possible. None of them is, both being utopias. Communism was distorted and realized into Bolshevik-Dictatorship (aka. Stalinism). Democracy was distorted into Financial-Autocracy (aka. Corporatocracy). Other third-way ideas were also distorted, or pushed down by the latter two.

You get the meaning.

The Russian "Dukes" of extreme wealth, likely the 1%, are opportunists risen from the ashes of the old system, likely resembling the autocrats. The reins were tightened since Putin and likely created the ruling oligarchs all over again -- while I believe a basic institution principle is important, it surely has been confusing for Russia over the past 25 years

Therefore I have to say, that yes, doesn't matter if it's democracy or communism. The real matter is people's minds, behaviors, habits, and others accumulating to the huge inertia of a highly hierarchical social structure. The monster doesn't stop overnight.

[+Menrva 4,202]

I agree with you guys. Snailman you're absolutely right when you say that "Communism was distorted and realized into Bolshevik-Dictatorship (aka. Stalinism). Democracy was distorted into Financial-Autocracy (aka. Corporatocracy)." Unfortunately only a few have realized that.  I don't want to politicize, but for instance I do get the impression that most of the Americans during the Cold War referred to the USSR as a Communist country, when it did have little or nothing to do with the philosophy and ideals created by Marx and Engels (I have studied them so I know what I'm talking about).  This didn't happen only in America, but in my Italy and I suppose in all the West as well.  Words have their precise meaning, for instance we shouldn't say Communist instead of Bolshevik when we are talking about the USSR, but here in the West ask a common person what he thinks about Communism, and he will think about the USSR (not in this topic thankfully).  Anyway we came to the conclusion that money is what matters nowadays, people struggle to reach the end of the month, while the 1% of the Earth's population detains much of the wealth, no matter if you live in the West or in the East, this is the world order that globalization created.  

Edited August 15, 2015 by blaze95

[Snailman 517]

The Russian "Dukes" of extreme wealth, likely the 1%, are opportunists risen from the ashes of the old system, likely resembling the autocrats. The reins were tightened since Putin and likely created the ruling oligarchs all over again -- while I believe a basic institution principle is important, it surely has been confusing for Russia over the past 25 years

Therefore I have to say, that yes, doesn't matter if it's democracy or communism. The real matter is people's minds, behaviors, habits, and others accumulating to the huge inertia of a highly hierarchical social structure. The monster doesn't stop overnight.

 

Russia, like the post-soviet states went through a different path, while result is similar.  The collapse of the USSR was far less significant to the state itself than we have thought.  As in my country (and other ex-eastern bloc) the power remained in the hand of the same people (that is why mentioning "changes of system" completely pointless).

Put the situation to the above mentioned formula. The ex-comrades have created a mask-political system  similar to what the western 1% created in the early 20th century. While they stepped back from the stage lights behind the curtains their henchmen do the job. Instead of one party we have 5-6. All the same are the tentacles of the same fat ex-bolshevik octopus. La piovra )

This is how Central-Europe changed from East to West. We are just serving a different Union. Nevertheless both Unions share the same faith.

 

 

Turning back to Russia, their millionaires are minor nobodies in we count only their wealth, and the number of such individuals are little.

 

There is one difference here, is that Russian elite is more or less still russian, and they played out the card which I call "Pup of our own dog". To some extent the public opinion respects them as their "new noblemen" as long as they act patriotic (for example spectacularly support russian interests, the Orthodox church or such). Being a monarchist (Czarist) or ex-bolshevik with USSR nostalgia, or "enlightened" democrat  - they act according to national unity, and keep their in-fighting at bay so far. Whether this is because of the choice of an acceptable charismatic leader or the power of money or the effects of national strength caused this, it seems to be effective in raising the nation out of the sinkhole of the Yeltsin era.

Some politologist say that Russia was able to create a third-way system, a hybrid form of ruling (I have doubts) similar to the original form of national socialism (Aka Strasserism) which is in fact nationalistic state-capitalism. Meant literally here, do not to be confused it with hitlerist "Nazism" what it was distorted into after the hitlerist coup in 1933.

 

 

FYI another significant third-way system was Peronism in Argentina. But these local variants cannot be reproduced elsewhere as a proper third-way system need to be molded the way it fits the local culture, national history, religion as well as local economic conditions. That's why it is completely futile to force western liberal-democracy and lifestyle onto the world, onto nations which cannot be ruled the way like that. Not even with the most honest goodwill (which never been present) and especially when it does not even work where it was invented.

Just for example Hungary which was a charismatic monarchy (holder of power was the national institute of the Holy Crown*) for 1100 years, and ever since we have republic or people's republic, the country is pushed into the pit of national-death.

 

I say these without bashing or flattering any country or nation... With supernational globalist powers over our heads these are indeed global problems. We all have responsibility eastern western, american non-american alike, not only to learn, to think, to be informed - but to teach and inform others to do so. Especially our children who are move vulnerable than ever to be influenced and fanatized by the system. To resist incitement of "divide and rule" philosophy, to put aside decades of propaganda and dogmas in which we and perhaps our parents grew up and think clearly. On both sides. Everywhere. Only unity can defeat any ruler - when people dare to say, the king is naked.

 

 

 

* The institutional Holy Crown. (Sacra Corona in latin) One-of-a-kind type of christian sacred monarchy, where the monarch (king or governor) is approved by the whole nation (well mostly by the noble orders and the church but there were exceptions, when the people coronated the king.) The holder of power was the sacred institute symbolized by the crown itself. Rulers haven't been coronated with the Holy Crown such as certain austrian Habsburg or Holy Roman usurpers, faced despise and scorn (or outright rebellion) not only from the people but from patriotic nobility as well.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Snailman

[Do335 382]

...

The collapse of the Soviet Union has resulted in a multitude of problems, as if to some extent former eastern bloc states have been facing an identity crisis, and many have morphed into national/oligarchy capitalism. Like you said nothing is black and white, even in the western world I've had some European friends consider the US the most "capitalist" while the rest is mild comparatively. But while one cannot just do a copy-paste of any existing system, some fundamentals are key, such as rule of law, proper regulations, free press and free speech, to prevent mass abuse of power (from the 1%) and maintain upward mobility. Just like in any organization, the flatter it is the better, but revolutionary changes don't happen overnight. It'll likely take a few life times.

 

It is so good of you to think of the children, I think it is imperative to guide them into better human beings. I have a distant memory, in junior high school a straight-A student wrote an essay that quoted an old saying, "If one doesn't taste the bitterness of bitterness, one will not be the man above men." The saying was considered to promote hard work in the old days, but he was later called into the classmaster's office and they had a talk. I did not understand why at the time，but I do now and am grateful for our classmaster.

[+logan4 847]

On top of that, I find it horrible that the EU has pretty much left us, Southern countries, alone dealing with thousands of immigrants coming from the Mediterranean Sea.  More than 2,500 people died since that start of 2015, but in my country many compatriots and politicians are suggesting that we shoot these immigrants on sight, failing to realize they are just poor guys escaping from war zones we once created and left in the past (Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Eritrea, etc.).  This economic crisis all in all is reminding me of the 1900s somehow, a conflict might be even closer than we think.  Pretty ironic, the companies and multinationals don't care about nationalities, but they care about money, the poor people instead care about nationalities and religion when politicians give them their scapegoat.

 

 

The sad truth of this is that migration volume and people does not have the financial background to tackle a journey of such size Their trip costs from 1000-15000 euro and based on Austrian and Hungarian interrogations most of them receives the money from USA based companies/organizations. So the current power holders use the face of the USA to finance one of the biggest migration in this century, in order to destabilize EU political system that is not willing currently to bow down on all fronts to the system (like trans atlantic treaty) - even when they are already infested with the minions of them. Globalization never worked on any level and will not with the current only financial viewpoint they pursue as destroys most local way of life and systems that are essential to the people of those lands.

 

It can be understand when people want to leave the hot zones for safety and piece, but there is a difference between that immigration and the one Europe faces currently. The refugees only become the problem, but not the source of the problem. The source are those who still try to restore the world the way it was decades ago. They do not realize that their urge for more control and money will bring their demise and that the population due to the ever growing strains starts to think differently more and more.

By the way the refugees mostly use the routes and delivery system of Al-Quaida and ISIS in Africa and east-Asia, so most of the money actually supports those groups that should be fight against  on the surface. And you wounder how those still exist or why so hard to put an end to them.

The powers will never tell their solders and their families that they gonna fight the enemy also financed by them or their allies. That way no one would be willing to go and throw their life away believing "fighting the good fight".

 

As above was already mentioned none of the current systems fits each country, but they want to force it anyway. Aside the Greece contract clauses many of the central EU countries that joined the EU had also things (must open up the land and water resources for sale for foreigners, etc) that are not part of any of the founding nation's requirements, but was put for others as a must in order to be accepted.

 

The current system regardless if we looking at it on financial, religious or political levels based on ideology where the wicked/strong/ people without integrity stomps over the good/honest/weak. Until that changes no third way will be allowed or disseminated for the populace as they will wake up and turn their back to the current rulers regardless how you name them.

 

There is a third way, where people cooperate on their own level, without abusing or taking advantage of the other or their helpers. This system has worked for centuries in certain but small number of places, and was always in the crosshairs of those whom only could live from others. To a degree it is native to everyone but the media and propaganda of today world and the way you were raised keeps the mind occupied and force you to think the way they want so you try more to compete rather than cooperate.

[+Menrva 4,202]

 

There is a third way, where people cooperate on their own level, without abusing or taking advantage of the other or their helpers. This system has worked for centuries in certain but small number of places, and was always in the crosshairs of those whom only could live from others. To a degree it is native to everyone but the media and propaganda of today world and the way you were raised keeps the mind occupied and force you to think the way they want so you try more to compete rather than cooperate.

 

I can't agree more, you're right about it, mass media and political propaganda forces the population to think that it is better to compete rather than to cooperate, to be a consumer rather than to be a thinker.

 

Regarding the migration problems, it is known that ISIS is controlling this kind of human trafficking in Libya and so they are gaining money and money to finance that new country of theirs, at the cost of thousands of innocent deaths.  If the EU keeps watching ISIS rather than planning an action to stop them, we might have a real terrorist threat in the future.  If we get rid of them in Libya and Middle East, that of course won't solve other problems such as the wars in the Horn of Africa and in Syria.  Such tasks unfortunately, as Do335 says, can't be accomplished overnight.  We must change our path, if we don't we'll never see something changing for the better, it seems we are currently going backwards rather than forward.

 

Back on topic, do we know which Greek islands will fall into EU's pockets (or what remains of the EU without Greece) in case of bailout?

[Boresight 51]

Boresight, I see you haven't included Italy (my country) in the list of those in crisis.  The situation here isn't all that good too.

 

I'm a little shocked by what's happening in the EU in general, a break off of the European Union is not all that far IMHO

 

Hello blaze,

 

Here in Portugal, people aren't talking much about Italy... yet.

 

Our midia has been manipulating the public opinion to only focus their attention on Greece.

(As part of a plan to keep us the populace, believing the EU problem is not so big... so they try to keep us looking only to just 1 country - Greece, in order to minorize the issue.)

 

However, far from knowing anything very concrete about Italy's economic / financial situation, I've been told an year ago by a neighbor, that Italy's situation is in fact a serious, (but kept discreet) concern in the EU economic council. That's all I know.

[+Menrva 4,202]

Don't worry Boresight, we have the same situation too, in Italy the mass media are focusing about Greece only, so I have no idea of the situation in the other troubled countries (Portugal, Spain and Ireland).