Decal notes question

[Nuni 132]

Hey there everyone, I know this question is a little worn out at this point buuut, I want to start including decals in my designs but I don''t know how to start. I have tried to find some Decals notes in the forum and in thirdwire but I haven't been lucky. Is there any document, tutorial or thread to implement decals in 3DS?

 

Thank you in advance!

 

[+guuruu 5,909]

In short. Decals aren't part of 3ds max, but game system.

Edited February 9, 2020 by guuruu

[+swambast 723]

46 minutes ago, guuruu said:

In short. Decals aren't part of 3ds max, but game system.

Not quite.  You still need to make the proper selections in 3ds Max which includes exporting the model with decal support.

[+guuruu 5,909]

Yup, true, but it is in this topic ;-)

[Wrench 9,850]

isn't TK's Decal Tutorial in the downloads section someplace??

If not, I"ll post it here.

Is there a specific question, like, how to make them? I know there's a couple of tutorials in the SF1 & SF2 forums. I think there's one stickied in the FE forum.

edit:

found this:

 

this old one by me, even for SF1, the information is the same

I think this one might be the 3W one

 

[Nuni 132]

Woow That is a lot of material to work with! I'll check all the tutorials out.

Well my very first question is, how do I create the space for them in the model's UWV map? I guess I should create layered textures, but I don't know exactly how to do it hahaha

In the "plane" that I made, I just created entirely different textures for every skin I wanted to make, but I guess it is easier to just change the decals for each country or squadron. I also want to know how to make damage textures to make it more realistic when receiving damage. There is a whole world of things that I need to know in order to make a good aircraft actually hahahaha

And thank you everyone for the quick reply

[+daddyairplanes 10,248]

also keep in mind when placing and sizing, that Mues latest LODviewer allows you to view decals (and everything else). saves alot of time.

when working with decals, initial placement and sizing  is the hardest part. create a saved pattern (just like making a skin template) then once the ini is dialed in, its just a matter of working through, whether adding serial numbers, nosearts, insignia, or whole skins (it can be done)

[+yakarov79 11,105]

2 hours ago, nuni said:

Well my very first question is, how do I create the space for them in the model's UWV map?

you are not doing this. I am guessing that you are aware of game mechanics - model - skin - decals.  

Model and decals are quite different things. Yes, decals depend on model meshes. And decals need to be placed on model meshes - not on skin. In fact, you do not need UV mapping of the model to put decals. 

But generally, create a model. UV map it. Create skin. Create decals and put it in any position on any mesh of the model.

Decals can be placed anywhere on the model.  Of course, there are limits, which changes when adding specular and bump map...but this is a different story. You will find more about it in tutorials linked above. 

2 hours ago, nuni said:

In the "plane" that I made, I just created entirely different textures for every skin I wanted to make, but I guess it is easier to just change the decals for each country or squadron.

textures for every skin - I am guessing you are trying to say different skin sets for different country/squadron.

Yes, it is easier to change decals for each country and squadron. You can have one skin set in the main aircraft folder. And skin folders for each squadron or country only with texture and decals ini in it. This saves space o your drive. 

2 hours ago, nuni said:

In the "plane" that I made

 

5 hours ago, nuni said:

I want to start including decals in my designs

why all this mystery fog... Here, all are usually very open about ongoing projects.

just asking....no sweat...

[Nuni 132]

18 minutes ago, yakarov79 said:

Why all this mystery fog... Here, all are usually very open about ongoing projects.

just asking....no sweat...

Hahahaha it's not secret, It's just that the first aircraft that I uploaded here can't be called "plane" since it is 650 meters long. I would like to learn how to make the model better! 

And your explanation is quite helpful, so decals positioning is in fact independent from the actual mapping, it just needs proper sizing and positioning (that seems to be easier saying than doing it hahaha). 

Thanks for the help! 

Edited February 9, 2020 by nuni

[+yakarov79 11,105]

yes.

in max or lod viewer determine where you want to put decal and write coordinates in decal.ini file.

depend on the mesh you have to put a specific statement of how the decal is placed. TOP/BOTTOM/LEFT/RIGHT/FRONT/BACK. And that is all. Example - Wings usually use TOP / BOTTOM placement, fuselage markings on sides will be LEFT / RIGHT, etc..etc. decals can be literally put anywhere and on any mesh of the model. 

 

Some guys here are putting civil airliner decals on the whole airplane - just to hide the real purpose of that plane...

 

and ok now...I saw your "plane" in downloads...

[Wrench 9,850]

just make sure the battle cruisers (starships) have enough meshes cut to all for the amount of decals (3 per is the general  usage, but a max of 4 is allowed)

ship construction numbers and names, right? 

[+daddyairplanes 10,248]

1 hour ago, yakarov79 said:

Some guys here are putting civil airliner decals on the whole airplane - just to hide the real purpose of that plane...
 

i only did that with the KC-10, after ini snipping the boom off

[Nuni 132]

On 10/2/2020 at 1:24 AM, Wrench said:

just make sure the battle cruisers (starships) have enough meshes cut to all for the amount of decals (3 per is the general  usage, but a max of 4 is allowed)

ship construction numbers and names, right? 

Understood! and yes, that would be nations and squadron name/name of the vessel (as I introduced the different starships as squadrons). And another question, how damaged skin works? is that a particular type of decal? is it a hidden mesh like the afterburners? or is it a totally different thing?

[+yakarov79 11,105]

this is just tga that is displayed by the game engine in case you are hit by enemy fire....The Simplest way is to get skin template, make a new layer, add all those desired damages, hits etc..into new layer in places on the skin where you want them displayed - then export only damaged layer as tga - and done. Each texture that is assigned to a model can have damaged texture overlay.  So if you have - wings, fuselage, tail, you will need wings_damaged, fuselage_damaged, tail_damaged...and that is almost all.

in aircraft ini add those lines:

[DamageTexture]
DamagedPostFix=_damaged.tga

But you can still add hidden meshes that will be shown when a particular part of the aircraft is damaged. But this is a different story

[Wrench 9,850]

Yes, damage meshes are built into the aircraft lod as a "hidden mesh' just as yakarov said. they only show when the primary (parent?) mesh is destroyed as declared in the _data ini.

I do a lot of cheating with the the damage textures -- like reusing existing ones extracted from the various cats, and renamed to match the skin maps. TK uses dds, but they're easily converted to tga. I just find one that sort of matches the mapping of the skin, rotate or flip as necessary, and send it out the door.

They're declared in the aircraft's main ini as _HOLES.tga (or dds on stock birds)

[DamageTexture]
DamagedPostFix=_holes.tga

(1stGens also used a _shredded_tga, but I think that was part of the aircraft's mapping)

I don't see why "_Damaged.tga" couldn't be used, but I've never seen it on any listing. I guess as long as the declaration matches the tga, there wouldn't be a problem