ANG colors questions...

[+Wrench]

I've got a skin I'm doing for an Air National Guard squadron. The unit operated the F-4C from 1976 to 1987. The VERY few images of the unit that I've been able to find, show their aircraft in ADC gray first, then 3-tone, then to 2 tone (maybe 3?) tone grays.

I'd thought that by 76, everyone had gone to the SEA camo, excepting some units only based the "48 state".

anybody have a link to references, or a site or whatever that I can research?

Also, I know the 3w Phantoms are all mapped (pretty much) identical, and these birds had slimers on the fuselage and tail. Can I use Sundowners templates (E) for the C??? Otherwise, I'm using the  stock 512x skin maps

[+daddyairplanes]

few statements on this

first, i thought Sundowner had a D template or J template. me thinks they'd work better than the E

second the colors depended on where the bird was on the depot cycle and mission set. Generally (but not always) the FISs did ADC grey or a variation, while the TFSs were the camo of the day. but the camo could be mixed (remember that depot cycle?) and sometimes the FISs got camo'd birds too. yes its a mess if you want 100% (or even 90%) accuracy

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=ANG+Phantoms&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=SGT+class+b+epulat+rank

this link highlights some pics. was looking for one book in particular, but this ebay search seems to have a good mix of images for research too

check pm in a few mins

[+daddyairplanes]

more notes rereading your post...

the gray scheme was called Hill 1 (three tone) and Hill 2 (two tone). it was originally planned to do the  3 tone and some made it through depot like that.  oddly, it seems to be cheaper and take less time to do a two tone scheme

any Hasegawa kits and instructions you may have laying around will show the layout out for you (the F-4C/D "Egypt I" kit iirc). think it was my first intro long ago that Phantoms didnt just come in SEA colors

[+yakarov79]

Use sundowners templates - works better for C/D.

I am using for D Sundowners with chopped Ravenclaw's bits from E.  

ANG research is a pain in the ass especially the late 70s early 80s....I did recently all Phantom D ANG squadrons. Some years show usage of 2-3 schemes at the same time. 

are you doing Hawaiian 199th ? As far as I remember they were using standard SEA, SEA wraparound and ADC grey at the same time.  Even if it was TFS its main role was air defense may be a reason for keeping ADC grey on many aircraft. 

I found a picture from 1984 still with standard SEA. But haven't seen (or do not recall) seeing Hawaiians in Hill grey.

Edited May 13, 2020 by yakarov79

[+daddyairplanes]

dont forget euro 1

[+Wrench]

yes, the 199th. Figured it would be nice to have a local unit for when I finish and upload the modernized Hawaii terrain. (I did they're P-47Ns some months ago in the Jug ANG skin pack, without even realizing it!)

Here's the SEA skin, and the new fin flash.

the photo (and a profile I didn't download) seems to show overall ADC gray

the other shows the SEA 3 tone, with a ANG tail badge, but not the Hawaii flash. I like the full color flash better

 

Got the PM, DA!!! MANY, many thanks for the books!!

 

[+Soulfreak]

The Hill sheme from the 199th FS is a bit different then other ANG / USAF Units.

It has no dark Grey area paintet on nose (Ends after Cockpit)

I guess i did an euro camo Skin a Long time ago...

[+russouk2004]

found so far          https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aviationgraphic.com%2Fairplanes%2F80-f-4c-phantom-ii-hawaii-ang-jp-826-.html&psig=AOvVaw2-2Cf5rL2oPNRPyosXdKUq&ust=1589518778764000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCNi1mobJsukCFQAAAAAdAAAAABBC

[Blade]

A long time ago I found a topic at a forum discussing HI ANG Phantoms. Unfortunately, it does not exist now, but, luckily, I saved the text in a txt file. It says that the 199th TFS had all variants of the USAF camo and grey schemes in the '80s. See the quotation below:

Quote

The 199th operated F-4C's during the mid to late 80's in Euro 1 (Lizard), SEA Wrap-around, SEA, and ADC Gray in addition to Hill Gray. Made for a colorful and very diverse ramp up until the Eagles showed up in 87 (I believe).

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Blade

[+Wrench]

thanks guys!

I think I"m going to stick to the SEA 3-tone for the full years span. Since doing each of the paint jobs is just unfeasable due to game engine limits. Meaning: I'd have to do them that would coincide with each other, causing mass confusion in the game engine and End Users (tm) -who can get confused enough!!!!

a special thanks to DaddyAirplanes for the books! They REALLY helped!!

[+allenjb42]

Of course you could use DA’s decal method for skins, which would allow you to have the appropriate camo/grey on each individual airframe In the squadron...

(Ducks and runs for cover 😂)

[+daddyairplanes]

i've thought of setting that up for USAF Phantoms (different camos) and  USN (weathering)

it would be a challenge that im not rushing to at the moment.................

[+Wrench]

me neither.

allen, you crack me up, brother!!!