Wrench Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 I've got a skin I'm doing for an Air National Guard squadron. The unit operated the F-4C from 1976 to 1987. The VERY few images of the unit that I've been able to find, show their aircraft in ADC gray first, then 3-tone, then to 2 tone (maybe 3?) tone grays. I'd thought that by 76, everyone had gone to the SEA camo, excepting some units only based the "48 state". anybody have a link to references, or a site or whatever that I can research? Also, I know the 3w Phantoms are all mapped (pretty much) identical, and these birds had slimers on the fuselage and tail. Can I use Sundowners templates (E) for the C??? Otherwise, I'm using the stock 512x skin maps Quote
+daddyairplanes Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 few statements on this first, i thought Sundowner had a D template or J template. me thinks they'd work better than the E second the colors depended on where the bird was on the depot cycle and mission set. Generally (but not always) the FISs did ADC grey or a variation, while the TFSs were the camo of the day. but the camo could be mixed (remember that depot cycle?) and sometimes the FISs got camo'd birds too. yes its a mess if you want 100% (or even 90%) accuracy https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=ANG+Phantoms&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=SGT+class+b+epulat+rank this link highlights some pics. was looking for one book in particular, but this ebay search seems to have a good mix of images for research too check pm in a few mins Quote
+daddyairplanes Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 more notes rereading your post... the gray scheme was called Hill 1 (three tone) and Hill 2 (two tone). it was originally planned to do the 3 tone and some made it through depot like that. oddly, it seems to be cheaper and take less time to do a two tone scheme any Hasegawa kits and instructions you may have laying around will show the layout out for you (the F-4C/D "Egypt I" kit iirc). think it was my first intro long ago that Phantoms didnt just come in SEA colors Quote
yakarov79 Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 (edited) Use sundowners templates - works better for C/D. I am using for D Sundowners with chopped Ravenclaw's bits from E. ANG research is a pain in the ass especially the late 70s early 80s....I did recently all Phantom D ANG squadrons. Some years show usage of 2-3 schemes at the same time. are you doing Hawaiian 199th ? As far as I remember they were using standard SEA, SEA wraparound and ADC grey at the same time. Even if it was TFS its main role was air defense may be a reason for keeping ADC grey on many aircraft. I found a picture from 1984 still with standard SEA. But haven't seen (or do not recall) seeing Hawaiians in Hill grey. Edited May 13, 2020 by yakarov79 1 1 Quote
Wrench Posted May 13, 2020 Author Posted May 13, 2020 yes, the 199th. Figured it would be nice to have a local unit for when I finish and upload the modernized Hawaii terrain. (I did they're P-47Ns some months ago in the Jug ANG skin pack, without even realizing it!) Here's the SEA skin, and the new fin flash. the photo (and a profile I didn't download) seems to show overall ADC gray the other shows the SEA 3 tone, with a ANG tail badge, but not the Hawaii flash. I like the full color flash better Got the PM, DA!!! MANY, many thanks for the books!! 4 Quote
+Soulfreak Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 The Hill sheme from the 199th FS is a bit different then other ANG / USAF Units. It has no dark Grey area paintet on nose (Ends after Cockpit) I guess i did an euro camo Skin a Long time ago... Quote
+russouk2004 Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 found so far https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aviationgraphic.com%2Fairplanes%2F80-f-4c-phantom-ii-hawaii-ang-jp-826-.html&psig=AOvVaw2-2Cf5rL2oPNRPyosXdKUq&ust=1589518778764000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCNi1mobJsukCFQAAAAAdAAAAABBC Quote
Blade Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) A long time ago I found a topic at a forum discussing HI ANG Phantoms. Unfortunately, it does not exist now, but, luckily, I saved the text in a txt file. It says that the 199th TFS had all variants of the USAF camo and grey schemes in the '80s. See the quotation below: Quote The 199th operated F-4C's during the mid to late 80's in Euro 1 (Lizard), SEA Wrap-around, SEA, and ADC Gray in addition to Hill Gray. Made for a colorful and very diverse ramp up until the Eagles showed up in 87 (I believe). Edited May 14, 2020 by Blade Quote
Wrench Posted May 14, 2020 Author Posted May 14, 2020 thanks guys! I think I"m going to stick to the SEA 3-tone for the full years span. Since doing each of the paint jobs is just unfeasable due to game engine limits. Meaning: I'd have to do them that would coincide with each other, causing mass confusion in the game engine and End Users (tm) -who can get confused enough!!!! a special thanks to DaddyAirplanes for the books! They REALLY helped!! 1 Quote
+allenjb42 Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 Of course you could use DA’s decal method for skins, which would allow you to have the appropriate camo/grey on each individual airframe In the squadron... (Ducks and runs for cover 😂) 3 Quote
+daddyairplanes Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 i've thought of setting that up for USAF Phantoms (different camos) and USN (weathering) it would be a challenge that im not rushing to at the moment................. 1 Quote
Wrench Posted May 14, 2020 Author Posted May 14, 2020 me neither. allen, you crack me up, brother!!! 1 1 Quote
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