Basic question about RAM, Graphics Cards, and game perfromance

[malibu43]

Ok,

 

So I've been spending some time lately trying to the most I can out of my outdated laptop. It's a Dell Inspiron 2200, 1.4 ghz, 768 MB RAM, and a GMA 900 shared graphics card. Right now I'm getting about 15-20 fps (graphics) on average with my settings the way they are. It can jump up to 25-30 fps at high altitudes or if nothing's going on, but can drop down to the 8-10 range (just barely playable) around Hanoi with large strikes going on. The game fps are usually quite a bit higher (~30-50), but I don't pay a lot of attention to those. I know there are graphics options I can adjust to improve performance and I've experimented with all those. That's not the info I'm looking for right now.

 

The only thing I can really do to upgrade this aging laptop is add more RAM, up to a total of 1280 MB. My question is what kind of difference I will see in terms of game performance? Will my graphics fps improve? Will the game fps improve? Will everything get better? Will nothing get better? ... you get the idea. In general, I'm not really sure how RAM affects performance vs graphics cards.

 

WOI lists 1 MB RAM as the min requirment, so before I drop the cash for it (or if I drop the cash for it), I want to know where I stand and what to expect.

 

Thanks!

Edited March 10, 2008 by malibu43

[tank03]

I've got a 3-4 year old Dell desktop with a generic Dell onboard graphics card that I upgraded the RAM from 512 to 1G and saw a significant increase in playability.

 

Most of my setting are on Medium (horizon:Near, water:Low), but with the new RAM I was able to set object graphics to high (left everything else at medium)and turn on the cockpit mirrors.

 

It still slows down a bit when a lot is going on, but it never gets so slow that it's unplayable. I've been playing WOI for about a week now using this same system and settings and haven't had any major problems with it.

 

Installing the new RAM was easy (about 5 minutes) with the desktop computer (and relatively inexpensive), but I imagine things are a bit more complicated with a laptop.

Edited March 10, 2008 by tank03

[malibu43]

I've got a 3-4 year old Dell desktop with a generic Dell onboard graphics card that I upgraded the RAM from 512 to 1G and saw a significant increase in playability.

 

Most of my setting are on Medium (horizon:Near, water:Low), but with the new RAM I was able to set object graphics to high (left everything else at medium)and turn on the cockpit mirrors.

 

It still slows down a bit when a lot is going on, but it never gets so slow that it's unplayable. I've been playing WOI for about a week now using this same system and settings and haven't had any major problems with it.

 

Installing the new RAM was easy (about 5 minutes) with the desktop computer (and relatively inexpensive), but I imagine things are a bit more complicated with a laptop.

 

Good news! I think I may go for some more RAM then... My settings are similar to yours right now (everything medium, mirrors on, horizon near, object texture and detail low)

 

Regarding installation, I upgraded when I first got my laptop from 256 to 768, and it took about 5 mins. Open one screw, out with one card, slide in the new.

[csb]

What!? You have the mirrors on!

 

Perhaps turn them off and see your fps jump, also turning off shadows helps a lot.

 

You seem to get better fps than I do with mirrors on, although I have them off.

 

My resolution is set to 1280x800 with 4xAA.

 

My laptop specs are below.

[ironroad]

A lot of DX 9 games like a lot of ram, ram speeds things up a bit, but eventually you will also have to upgrade to a faster gpu if you want eye candy and high frame rates.

 

But ram is the cheapest and most cost effective way to upgrade your computer, you will see a lot of overall improvements.

[malibu43]

What!? You have the mirrors on!

 

Perhaps turn them off and see your fps jump, also turning off shadows helps a lot.

 

...

 

Yeah, yeah. I know. That's why I put this disclaimer in my original post:

 

 

"I know there are graphics options I can adjust to improve performance and I've experimented with all those. That's not the info I'm looking for right now."

I don't use shadows at all. Turning off mirrors does give a 4-5 fps improvement. My thing, though, is I want the "from the cockpit" experience to be "neat" (for lack of a much better word) as possible. I've sacrificed some other things (object detail, object texture, horizon distance) which results in external shots looking like crap, but keeps things moving when in a crowded airspace/groundspace.

 

A lot of DX 9 games like a lot of ram, ram speeds things up a bit, but eventually you will also have to upgrade to a faster gpu if you want eye candy and high frame rates.

 

But ram is the cheapest and most cost effective way to upgrade your computer, you will see a lot of overall improvements.

 

Yeah, I found 1GB at Fry's fro ~$50, so I figure its worth a shot. I'm not expecting to turn everything up to unlimited. Just set things up to medium at least, mirrors on, and not have it turn into a slide show around Hanoi.

Edited March 11, 2008 by malibu43

[+Major Lee]

www.newegg.com

[WarlordATF]

You didnt mention what operating system your using. I would guess XP, but if your using Vista i might have a suggestion that will help.

 

I have a eMachines 3.0 Ghz Pent 4 with 1 Gig of Ram and an Intel 950 GMA with Windows Vista Home Premium (32 bit) and i have found that the latest XP Drivers perform far better than the Vista ones. I found this out because i play Star Wars Galaxies and with the Vista drivers the graphics constantly rebooted over and over again. So I disabled the Display Adaptor and Uninstalled the drivers and downloaded the .Zip version of the latest intel XP drivers and installed them, problem solved and all my games had higher FPS than the Vista Drivers.

[malibu43]

www.newegg.com

 

Thanks. I checked that out. The prices looked pretty similar to what I saw at Fry's... unless I missed something...?

 

 

You didnt mention what operating system your using. I would guess XP, but if your using Vista i might have a suggestion that will help.

 

I have a eMachines 3.0 Ghz Pent 4 with 1 Gig of Ram and an Intel 950 GMA with Windows Vista Home Premium (32 bit) and i have found that the latest XP Drivers perform far better than the Vista ones. I found this out because i play Star Wars Galaxies and with the Vista drivers the graphics constantly rebooted over and over again. So I disabled the Display Adaptor and Uninstalled the drivers and downloaded the .Zip version of the latest intel XP drivers and installed them, problem solved and all my games had higher FPS than the Vista Drivers.

 

XP.

[+Piecemeal]

Ok,

 

So I've been spending some time lately trying to the most I can out of my outdated laptop. It's a Dell Inspiron 2200, 1.4 ghz, 768 MB RAM, and a GMA 900 shared graphics card. Right now I'm getting about 15-20 fps (graphics) on average with my settings the way they are. It can jump up to 25-30 fps at high altitudes or if nothing's going on, but can drop down to the 8-10 range (just barely playable) around Hanoi with large strikes going on. The game fps are usually quite a bit higher (~30-50), but I don't pay a lot of attention to those. I know there are graphics options I can adjust to improve performance and I've experimented with all those. That's not the info I'm looking for right now.

 

The only thing I can really do to upgrade this aging laptop is add more RAM, up to a total of 1280 MB. My question is what kind of difference I will see in terms of game performance? Will my graphics fps improve? Will the game fps improve? Will everything get better? Will nothing get better? ... you get the idea. In general, I'm not really sure how RAM affects performance vs graphics cards.

 

WOI lists 1 MB RAM as the min requirment, so before I drop the cash for it (or if I drop the cash for it), I want to know where I stand and what to expect.

 

Thanks!

 

Here's a question for all you 'screwdriver/nuts and bolts' (aka IT) guys out there;

 

I myself have got a Dell Inspiron 6000 laptop with a 1.6ghz processor and 504mb of RAM. I've had similar problems to (quote) above

when playing on a high setting.

My question to the IT guys is; would inreasing my virtual memory settings improve matters?

[Stick]

I've got a 3-4 year old Dell desktop with a generic Dell onboard graphics card that I upgraded the RAM from 512 to 1G and saw a significant increase in playability.

 

Most of my setting are on Medium (horizon:Near, water:Low), but with the new RAM I was able to set object graphics to high (left everything else at medium)and turn on the cockpit mirrors.

 

It still slows down a bit when a lot is going on, but it never gets so slow that it's unplayable. I've been playing WOI for about a week now using this same system and settings and haven't had any major problems with it.

 

Installing the new RAM was easy (about 5 minutes) with the desktop computer (and relatively inexpensive), but I imagine things are a bit more complicated with a laptop.

Naw its simple enough-flip it over and slide open the RAM slot-usually there is place for two cards and Ive got 2gb So things never ever slow down.Also because I have a separate 400mb video card. But I work on Vista so the grass isnt greener on the other side

[iam73]

More RAM will definitely help. More CPU would even be better but I understand you're on a laptop so it's a no-go for you.

 

Sims in general are really hungry for CPU and RAM, I would place GPU at the end. From past experience, I've seen a lot more performance gain by adding more memory and upgrading the CPU than upgrading the video card... Just recently I upgraded my system. I didn't have enough cash to go the full core duo router upgrade, so I changed my cpu (P4 2.6ghz) to a P4 3.2ghz (+25% CPU) and changed my ram to a 2gb kit (previously had 1gb only). Then I bought an ATI HD2600xt 512mb DDR3. A budget upgrade.

 

I received the video card in the mail before the rest of the component so I quickly installed it with the latest catalyst drivers (8.3) and started WoE... Wow, absolutely no FPS increase. I fiddled a bit with the card settings and all I could manage was to be able to play at 1600x1200 at the same speed I was playing 1280x1024 before, 20FPS on takeoff, +30 in the air. No shadows, no mirrors, no AF, no AA

 

Then the CPU and RAM arrived... YEAH! 30fps on takeoff, +50 in the air at 1600x1200 4xFSAA, still no shadows and no mirrors

 

I've experienced the same situations years ago with Janes F-18 when I switched from a GF3 to a GF6600gt, then switched from a p4 1.8 to a 2.6.

[Spinners]

This is a really interesting thread for me as I'm itching to upgrade!

 

In other threads I've seen mention made of peeps happily running the new WOI on quite basic rigs whilst other folk with quite impressive rig specs are disappointed.

 

At the moment I'm running an Intel Celeron 2.2 with 756 RAM and a GeForce 7300GT graphics card. Hopefully, I'm getting an Intel Celeron 3.06 chip from my local computer store (they reckon they've got one coming up from another customer's upgrade) so I reckon that by adding a bit more RAM I should be OK for WOI.

[+DoctorQuest]

I have worked in IT for over 30 years and since day one the rule has been:

 

YOU CAN'T HAVE TOO MUCH MEMORY!!!!!!!!!

 

Ok, well, except for Windows 98 which has issues with memory over 512M.....

 

But with just about any other OS (mainframe, UNIX, Windows XP and beyond) more memory is goodness.

[iam73]

In other threads I've seen mention made of peeps happily running the new WOI on quite basic rigs whilst other folk with quite impressive rig specs are disappointed.

 

I'm guessing this is because peeps with basic rigs adjust their graphic options accordingly and are happy with what they have (+/- 15 to 20 FPS), while the high-tech guys are disapointed to get only 20 fps with everything maxed out, 4xFSAA, 16xAF at 2560x1600

[malibu43]

Wow. So I picked up 1GB ram from Fry's on my lunch break. Went home and installed it...

 

0, zero, nada, nothing as far as FPS improvement goes. I saw absolutely no difference in the performance of my laptop. Not during start-up, game loading, anything. The extra RAM was detected on startup and showed a total of 1280MB RAM. But absolutely nothing as far as performance goes.

 

Luckily, I was able to return it.

[csb]

Did you turn up some of the graphic options - ingame & videocard.

 

Perhaps you would get same fps but with better graphics.

 

I realise though that I wouldn't be happy with 15-20 fps, so the RAM wouldn't be worth it.

[malibu43]

Did you turn up some of the graphic options - ingame & videocard.

 

Perhaps you would get same fps but with better graphics.

 

I realise though that I wouldn't be happy with 15-20 fps, so the RAM wouldn't be worth it.

 

No, I didn't try to turn up the graphics at all. I guess that would have been worth trying. But like you said, all that money just to stay at 15-20 fps isn't really worth it. I'm just going to be happy with what I have for now and worry about better performance when it's time for a new laptop in a few years.

[Jug]

No, I didn't try to turn up the graphics at all. I guess that would have been worth trying. But like you said, all that money just to stay at 15-20 fps isn't really worth it. I'm just going to be happy with what I have for now and worry about better performance when it's time for a new laptop in a few years.

 

OK, I am going to build a machine to fly the Third Wire series with everything turned on and expecting the full experience. What do I load it up with? What is floating around in your hardware dreams you need to get out into the open. I have an unlimited budget until my wife finds out about it, so I need stuff I cannot give back. Cut loose, guys. Let me know what you would buy where you could do it all!!!!

[malibu43]

OK, I am going to build a machine to fly the Third Wire series with everything turned on and expecting the full experience. What do I load it up with? What is floating around in your hardware dreams you need to get out into the open. I have an unlimited budget until my wife finds out about it, so I need stuff I cannot give back. Cut loose, guys. Let me know what you would buy where you could do it all!!!!

 

Well, I obviously have no idea at this point. I can tell you what won't work though...

[Thog10]

OK, I am going to build a machine to fly the Third Wire series with everything turned on and expecting the full experience. What do I load it up with? What is floating around in your hardware dreams you need to get out into the open. I have an unlimited budget until my wife finds out about it, so I need stuff I cannot give back. Cut loose, guys. Let me know what you would buy where you could do it all!!!!

 

 

I would be interested to see what folks say, too. Well, my position is not quite unlimited. A year after my gaming rig died I am looking at spending about $1450 on a desktop, and I may throw another $250 in for a monitor. My time and talent for building my own is nil or close to it, so what would folks buy if unlimited funds weren't quite available?

[iam73]

This should get you max FPS with everything maxed out, 16xFSAA, 16xAF at 2560 x 1600...

 

Core 2 Extreme/Quad, 3.0ghz, 1333mhz FSB, 12mb L2 cache, overclocked to 4ghz, liquid cooled

4GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM/1333MHz

ATI Radeon HD 3870 X2 CrossFireX / 2gb

 

Oh, it should make a 5000$ hole in your budget too...

[Guest USNadpc]

It's funny I just upgraded last week before I read this thread.

 

Before the upgrade:

Enermax 535w Power Supply

Asus A8n-SLi Premium motherboard (PCIe 1.0)

AMD 64 4800x2 processor

eVGA 7800 GTX 256mb graphics card

2GB Corsair XMS Platinum memory

250gb Sata2 hard drive

Plextor DVD Burner

 

After the upgrade:

Everything stayed the same except for the graphics card and Power Supply.

I pulled out the single eVGA 7800 GTX 256mb and the Enermax 535 power supply.

I replaced them with a Coolermaster 750w power supply and two eVGA 9600 GT's overclocked in SLi mode with 512mb each for a total of 1gb of graphics memory.

 

I thought that the dual graphics cards in SLI mode would have a substantial boost in performance but I've learned that the processor and memory reigns supreme.

 

USNadpc

[+Major Lee]

Just remember that SF is NOT currently setup to use either dual or mutli core CPUs, nor does it use ATI Crossfire, and not sure if it even will use nVidia SLI....

 

http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p...+dualcore+love/

http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p...light=crossfire

 

Check out Tom's Hardware review of video cards...

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/12/12/gef...800_gts_512_mb/

[+Major Lee]

FWIW, my new build...

 

Gigabyte P35-S3G mobo

E6850 dual core 3.0ghz x 4MB cache

EVGA 8800GTS G92 512mb video

KHX8500 1066mhz DDR2 ram 2 x 1GB in dual channel mode

Seagate Barracuda 250gb hd with 32mb cache

Soundblaster X-FI extreme gamer sound card (get the sound off the mobo and cpu)

Arctic Freezer 7 cooler

ASUS WV222 22" 2ms monitor

Windows XP sp2

 

This moves SF and Silent Hunter IV along very nicely... Lots of room to overclock speeds on the cpu, video and ram. I can always add two more gb of memory. I would have preferred an E8400 3.0ghz Wolfdale cpu, but just could not find one... Well anyway, this setup works very well.

 

I think we should standardize some kind of "in-game" test mission to note our frame rates... FPS, mission load times... Just so we can compare apples to apples...

Edited March 14, 2008 by Major Lee